Jeff Matthews Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I lean with Oldie on the tubes issue. Let's see... In the 1940's - 1960's, they used tubes. Then, a marvelous breakthrough.... the transistor. Virtually, the entire industry shifts to transistors, leaving tubes behind in the dust. Then, some nostalgic people with business savvy realize: "Hey, tubes have very little competition. Let's say how great they were and mark them up higher than before." If the tubers were to try and enter the transistor market, they'd be swallowed whole - and that's why they don't. The marvel over tubes must be more in the marketing. Kind of like LP's. People will sit and listen to pops and crackles on LP's and still be convinced crackles sound better than CD's. The same phenomenon occurs with cars. How many people out there say with respect to old cars, "They don't build them like they used to." To that, I say, "Thank God!." I have a 1953 Buick Special and a 1960 Bel-Air. I like them very much. But as far as a reliable, comfortable ride, they are far behind my 2006 Sierra. Keep on tubin'! It's just an opinion. (Also, caps are very worth it. Oldie, being the sceptic I am, I have to disagree on the caps issue.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Come on now jeff, read carefully. I meant that I never wondered whether new caps were worth it because it is obvious that they are. for the record i don't dislike tubes either. I'm just not into the sanctimonious worship thing. When you get to my welcome post it becomes clear i was yanking the newbies chain, he was a good sport about it too. Proved his mettle you might say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Okay. (I skimmed). I also agree that "weather" or not tubes are worthy of "worshup," it doesn't make them bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Good one, jeff. (your edumacation from that big university really shows) The thing is, if you have something that sounds bad, hooking up a tube amp will not make it sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 .... 'cep'n if ss amps sound bad. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Ever wonder if new caps are worth it?? I think so!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Continue on with the Texan SS group hug... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I lean with Oldie on the tubes issue. Let's see... In the 1940's - 1960's, they used tubes. Then, a marvelous breakthrough.... the transistor. Virtually, the entire industry shifts to transistors, leaving tubes behind in the dust. Then, some nostalgic people with business savvy realize: "Hey, tubes have very little competition. Let's say how great they were and mark them up higher than before." If the tubers were to try and enter the transistor market, they'd be swallowed whole - and that's why they don't. The marvel over tubes must be more in the marketing. Kind of like LP's. People will sit and listen to pops and crackles on LP's and still be convinced crackles sound better than CD's. The same phenomenon occurs with cars. How many people out there say with respect to old cars, "They don't build them like they used to." To that, I say, "Thank God!." I have a 1953 Buick Special and a 1960 Bel-Air. I like them very much. But as far as a reliable, comfortable ride, they are far behind my 2006 Sierra. Keep on tubin'! It's just an opinion. (Also, caps are very worth it. Oldie, being the sceptic I am, I have to disagree on the caps issue.) Nice discussion going on guys! But I'm LOL on a few of the comments here! First off I'd like to say I heard that 60% of high end audio gear is tubes last I heard. And of course your not going to see tubes in retail stores like Best Buy or Circuit City. As far as to why I use tubes and don't use SS! Well, SS bores me frankly! I like harmonics of tubes myself and I like the dynamics watt for watt in well designed tube gear. I also prefer the 1930's Single-Ended circuits myself. As to the marvel of tubes! Marketing? Speaking for myself, hardly! 18 yrs ago at a Chicago Audio Society Meeting with Dennis Had, I heard his Cary 805 SET amp equipped with a 211 Transmitting tube driven by a 300B and a 6SL7 a circuit right out of the 1930's, it has just 25 watts but what those 25 watts can do is story on to itself. I have owned some pretty powerful SS amplifiers over the yrs but the Cary left my jaw on the floor! It produced one of the most gargantuan sound stages I have ever heard. This was from the Hell Freezes Over CD Hotel California cut, The slam factor left me thinking that Dennis's amp was more powerful sounding than any of the very good SS amps that I have owned or heard. And whats interesting about my statement is that there were reviewers that went on record at the time and said the same thing. Also the Cary 805 made the front cover of Stereophile Magazine with the Krell KSA250 with the statement "If one is right the other must be wrong" Yes I to like CD's and I think they are getting better but there's just no comparison of CD to my two box DIY MC Phono Preamplifier and my CD player is pretty top shelf built like a Rolls Royce for 2000$ and weighs in at 37lbs here's a photo of part of my Phono's 900 Joule supply. Are there bigger commercially? Yes! As far as tube reliability one of my mono block SET amps had a bridge rectifier go out on it after 10yrs of running. I had the issue diagnosed in a few minutes and with a trip to my local electronic parts store I had the amp back up and running within 2 hrs. If it needed a transformer it wouldn't be down more than a day or two for me. I'd say my gear is pretty reliable and better yet I can fix it myself. The cap issue! Well I built an outboard crossover after I had a friend replace his stock LaScala networks with his DIY version of ALK networks. What I heard inspired me to build mine which I lived with for several yrs until recently after reading about this guys experience with caps and their sound. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html I was using Hovlands with Polystyrene bypasses, And went with Mundorfs Silver Foil/Oil's for the tweeters, and a Mundorf Gold/Silver foil for the midrange but I desired to hear the Duelund's Copper so I bought a pair for 250$ for my Midrange yes its a lot of money! but IMO they do exactly what humblehomemadehifi said they do! I've heard a lot of caps but these are one of the very best! And IMO leave many others including the Mundorfs behind! Inductors are audible to! I recently had the Solen Hepa Litz Inductor based on ALK's testing in place of my Northcreek Inductors but found the Solen a little to bright. The cool thing about having outboard networks is that you can tune to taste low ,mid, and highs or even an overall effect by changing my amps single coupling cap. Its sort of like one friend saying "Your tuning from the inside out" Yeah I'm having a lot of fun and learning in the process1 I had no idea how profound it really was until I did this work! Worth every penny! And as one of my local audio club members Rzr likes to say! "But everyone has a different approach, thats what makes us all so stoopid." "Cheers" SET12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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