Speaker A or speaker B redux?

[LarryC]

Who took the Speaker A - Speaker B test on Saturday, and what did you decide?

There were two sets of speakers behind a black curtain, and each person was left alone with a switch box and about 15 - 20 minutes to write down pros, cons, and his/her preference. A similar test was given a few years ago, I think between the new Cornwall III and ?the RF-7, and someone started a "Speaker A or speaker B?" thread that I can no longer find.

I thought one of the two pairs was clearly better. What did the rest of you find?

Larry

[BLSamuel]

I did this with my daughter and it was very interesting and fun. I suppose our testing was kind of skewed as two people together but we coordinated switching between A and B. I wonder what the speakers were that we were listening to? I think they did this last year also though all the slots were filled up. There were still some opening so Alea and myselft signed up for what I believe was the last spot of the day. I was proud in that we both were able to keep from looking behind the curtain.

My daughter I think took notes throughout while I ended up writing down most of my comments towards the end. I forget what she said but we both preferred A.

I'm not sure that I'm verry good at describing the sound of speakers but it was an interesting and fun experience. I hope I didn't pick clearly inferior speakers. [:S]

Anyway, both speakers sounded very good to me. I thought A sounded more lifelike and that there was more depth to the sound and had a fuller sound.. A also sounded louder at times in the midrange to me though didn't seem to be deficient in the treble or bass compared to B to me anyway. A also seemed to almost lose it at times but it was when it seemed louder so maybe just too loud? B just seemed sort of in the background and lifeless by comparison. More background music sounding at times. It sounded very good but not as good.

I guess I'd also say that B may have sounded more refined but didn't have the live sound or emotion of A. I recall thinking that A, to use a term of MDeenen sounded more juicy.

So did everyone pick A or B and how did they sound in comparison to the rest of you? My reference is rather, um, low grade compared to most if not all the other Pilgrimage attendees.

[Coytee]

One of my comments was that "A" sounded more like the music was out in the room with me and "B" sounded more like a Dr's office....(no offense to any Doctors reading this .... well, maybe a little... [] )

[colterphoto1]

Why don't you all post your thoughts here FIRST, then we'll publish the test results?

[LarryC]

Who wants to go first? [8-|]

[BLSamuel]

"A" sounded more like the music was out in the room with me and "B" sounded more like a Dr's office

Well I didn't think "B" sounded that bad (but my reference is very low fi compared to Coytee's) but that's a good description of the differences as I thought B did sound more distant, kind of in the background while "A" sounded more live - see and almost feel the sweat fly off the performers brow.

I hope everyone who participated posts as it'd be interesting and cool to read what others heard. Even better if we're eventually let in on what we were listening to.

[LarryC]

I may have arrived at the opposite preference from the rest of you -- I preferred B -- although I heard some of the same things the rest of you did. I thought B's musical tones were purer, more accurate, and more like the real thing, from top to bottom. To me, A was a little hashier and had a more treble and mid-range prominence as a result. If true, that could account for conclusions that A's sound was more forward, came out into the room better, and maybe why it sounded more lively than B.

I thought it was interesting that the rather faint electronic organ in the background in one of the tracks was more easily heard, and sounded quite a bit more like an electronic organ, in B than in A. Another deciding factor for me.

I realize now that I didn't try to assess the liveliness or emotional factor. But, sometimes a component that is purer can come across as more withdrawn because of that lack of treble prominence (or edge!). Kinda like Class A versus Class AB amplification.

At first, I thought the bass drum in the Copeland was more forceful from A, and maybe it was, but I then decided it was looser and more reverberant, but not as finely detailed as from B. So, in the end, being a guy who prefers transparency and accuracy in reproducing strings, winds, brass, and percussion, I decided B was the winner for me.

One other factor -- B's propagation seemed to be more spread out, like a larger horn would do compared with a smaller one or a direct driver. Similar to what DeanG has been saying about comparing Palladiums to big Heritage horns, though not as dramatic. I wonder if B had a bigger horn?

With only one good ear, I'm more limited in assessing soundstage, so that might have been a factor in others' preference for A.

[Bill H.]

I didn't take the test this time.......to let other, newer members experience this Fun. Larry it was interesting that you Picked B..........in past years they switched speakers, so that they would get a true, unbiased sample from everyone...........it will interesting to see if your B was actually another members A in the test............Oh the Intrique....................

[Coytee]

I'm trying to remember some of the items I wrote down...

Couple come to my mind... I did hear some harshness on "A" although I don't recall if it was during vocals or not. (It might or might not be worth noting that I had them at a reasonable volume the entire time...I did not do any low level listening and then higher level...it was all higher)

As for spatial references... how to say this... "A" seemed skewed to the left to me and "B" seemed skewed to the right. Perhaps there was a bona fide placement issue and it's nothing more than that. Not knowing that, it was something I noticed and wrote down.

Both speakers sounded good. "B" was a more 'polite' sound (which is why I used the Dr.'s Office phrase...something unobtrusive yet soothing in the background)

In spite of some of the hash/grain/distortion (??) I thought I perceived on "A", that style of sound was still more preferable to me than the laid back sound of "B".

As a side note, the two speakers were not level matched and I realized that very shortly. I DID try to adjust the volume a bit on the fly (as futile as that may be) to at least try to compensate for the differences in levels. I never could really get them close enough, fast enough. It was probably flawed logic on my part to try that but I figured if I could get them in the same ballpark I could perhaps try to focus more on the sonics instead of the loudness.

[Coytee]

Well I didn't think "B" sounded that bad

Obviously you've never been to ILoveKhorns office...

[6]

(and that's a good thing!)

[BobRiff]

<snip>

As a side note, the two speakers were not level matched and I realized that very shortly. I DID try to adjust the volume a bit on the fly (as futile as that may be) to at least try to compensate for the differences in levels. I never could really get them close enough, fast enough. It was probably flawed logic on my part to try that but I figured if I could get them in the same ballpark I could perhaps try to focus more on the sonics instead of the loudness.

Isn't it a fact that the louder speaker will usually be judged as "sounding better" than the lower volume speaker when doing an A/B test?

I suprised they weren't level matched before the testing began.

[LarryC]

in past years they switched speakers, so that they would get a true, unbiased sample from everyone...........it will interesting to see if your B was actually another members A in the test............Oh the Intrique....................

Good recall, Bill -- in fact, I asked that question this morning and was told they did NOT switch the speakers this time. Yeah, that caused some confusion & I'm glad they didn't this time.

[LarryC]

Isn't it a fact that the louder speaker will usually be judged as "sounding better" than the lower volume speaker when doing an A/B test?

It sure is. Richard, which was louder? Now I'm wondering if that partly accounts for the laid-back perception?

I think I was able to hear around that artifact anyway.

[Coytee]

Richard, which was louder?

For my ears, "A" was distinctly more loud. I initially thought/feared that this was why I felt "B" was a more laid back speaker so about 10 minutes into my 40 I tried to either juice up "B" or pull back "A" in a vain attempt to even the playing field.

(wouldn't it be dastardly of them if they had some Bose/Radio Shack/Infinity (insert preference) speakers at regular volume and had some Khorns/Jubilees/LaScalas (insert preference) as "B" speakers with the sound attenuated 25 db's...just to fool us... )

[BLSamuel]

I think I did mention to (the Klipsch employee running the demo, horrors I don't recall his name [:$]) that A often sounded louder and I think he said they were level matched at least as best they could be - so that led me to think that maybe A had some frequency response abberations that made it sound louder than B. And knowing that louder will often sound better I still preferred the sound of A, the speaker I thought sounded louder at times.

Could it have been a center channel fill? I didn't pay attention to the loudness when the center Bell was switced in and out during the 3 speaker stereo demo but it did seem to fill things in better. But don't recall the mains seeming more distant - though maybe a little now that I think about it.

At least I'm not alone in choosing A. I suppose I'm a bit paranoid that I'd pick a set of junky speakers over a really good set of speakers but I'd hope that kind of difference would stand out more.

[BobRiff]

<snip>

(wouldn't it be dastardly of them if they had some Bose/Radio Shack/Infinity (insert preference) speakers at regular volume and had some Khorns/Jubilees/LaScalas (insert preference) as "B" speakers with the sound attenuated 25 db's...just to fool us... )

I love a good conspiracy theory! []

[Bill H.]

I don't remember last year whether they were Attenuated or not, but they did use Def Tech.................Sly dogs...........[]

[colterphoto1]

Sometimes it's Klipsch against a competitor- sometimes it's one Klipsch against ANOTHER KLIPSCH, so careful what you dis guys!

I preferred B because of it's creamy, nougaty center.

[Coytee]

so careful what you dis guys!

They told me they wanted an honest opinion so I gave it... Speaker "B" was straight out of a Dr's office...I should know...I visited one just yesterday and heard the same sound!

[6]

[Amy]

Rest assured, neither speaker is considered "crappy" in the real world. []

We were honestly more interested in the comments rather than which speaker you preferred, because everyone knows there is no "wrong" answer in the audio world. Well, mostly.