Speaker A or speaker B redux?

[colterphoto1]

Amy said 'crappy' []

[Coytee]

Rest assured, neither speaker is considered "crappy" in the real world

Seeing as I was visiting a Gastroenterologist yesterday I can say with 100% authority that SOME speakers are indeed, crappy...[:|] Same feeling goes for his dang colonoscopy scope too.... [*-)] [:$]

ok, let's not go there.

[:S]

[Amy]

Oops, I thought that's what Ben had said. I should've used "junky." My bad! [:$]

And thanks, Coytee, for sharing that extra special glimpse into your life.

[]

[Coytee]

And thanks, Coytee, for sharing that extra special glimpse into your life.

I've got pictures if you want...[+o(]

[BLSamuel]

Oops, I thought that's what Ben had said. I should've used "junky." My bad!

Whew... at least I stooped no lower than "junk". Maybe I should've said that I feared I'd choose a set of speakers that are rather lacking in their ability to accuratlely reproduce the complete musical experience. Now if I just knew enough big words to make that sound impressive.... but I was probably doodling in my notebook during vocabulary (where, that's a big one there) enrichment.

Of course maybe it's better not to sound a little overly pompous and arrogant such as a classmate many years ago who identified his house plants as naturally aspirated vegetation. But he may have also been wrong as they were in a buidling with a window or skylight at best and stale interior air. If I were a houseplant being stuck inside would be a let down if I was promised natural aspiration (ouch, my brain hurts).

Coytee, I've had a couple of colonoscopies and my doctor normally knocks me out enough I don't remember a whole lot, like if there was even music playing. Guess I'll have to pay better attention next time. Said doctor, when I visited him for something else, did think my Custom 2 was pretty cool and sounded awesome. I'll have to remember to ask him if he checked them out any further. Maybe I'll have some Image to take with by then....

I'm just glad I'm hearing some of the same things that more experienced listeners are reporting including those (everyone) with higher expectations or who are at least used to really awesome sound reproduction at home. I guess I missed enough rock concerts that I've managed to preserve some semblance of hearing. Though a full orchestra going full tilt isn't exactly a low volume affair. And I'd think I'd want some hearing protection if I was seated very close to the Howitzer in the 1812 Overture.

Speaking of hearing protection, should I be concerned about my Baritone playing teenager's hearing? High school marching and pep bands do tend to play pretty doggone loud at times.

[BLSamuel]

I've got pictures if you want...

No thank you... unless you've got a picture of the duck in the procedure room

[kaiser SET say]

No thank you... unless you've got a picture of the duck in the procedure room

Least we hope the duck is in the room and not somewhere else in his scope[] Oops, there goes my lunch[+o(]

[LarryC]

Speaking of hearing protection, should I be concerned about my Baritone playing teenager's hearing? High school marching and pep bands do tend to play pretty doggone loud at times.

Well, I think you should. This apparently is a concern among musicians in orchestras and perhaps. I saw a NYTimes article on this a few years ago, so I suggest you google the subject and see if the Times search function comes up with it. One of the young female french horn players at last Fall's Strathmore concert was taking ear plugs in and out during The Planets, which gets to be pretty loud, so she seemed to be protecting her ears. Possibly the musician's Hi-Fi Etymotic, which is supposed to lower loudness by 12 db without affecting the response curve. It might be wise to worry about him not ending up with tinnitus or (ugh!) Meniere's in the future.

[jacksonbart]

I think speaker C sounded like Coytee's polyps.

[BLSamuel]

Speaking of hearing protection, should I be concerned about my Baritone playing teenager's hearing? High school marching and pep bands do tend to play pretty doggone loud at times.

Well, I think you should. This apparently is a concern among musicians in orchestras and perhaps. I saw a NYTimes article on this a few years ago, so I suggest you google the subject and see if the Times search function comes up with it. One of the young female french horn players at last Fall's Strathmore concert was taking ear plugs in and out during The Planets, which gets to be pretty loud, so she seemed to be protecting her ears. Possibly the musician's Hi-Fi Etymotic, which is supposed to lower loudness by 12 db without affecting the response curve. It might be wise to worry about him not ending up with tinnitus or (ugh!) Meniere's in the future.

Larry. Thanks for the info.

My daughter's high school band does seem to be a lot louder than when I was in high school. That said, she's only in 8th grade but has had a lot of issues when she was young with her ears with a tube in one ear (I think they put in a permanent one when she had her tonsils and adnoids removed).

She more recently has had a lot of balance issues that her ENT said was due to all the old viruses she had as a small child acting up. I think he explained it that the nerve coatings get inflamed and kind of cracked similar to Alzheimers except the nerve pulses get to the right place just not at the right time and she was medicallly clumsy. It was bad enough at times she'd miss 2 and 3 days of school at a time as she couldn't do anything without getting nauseous. Her center of balance was way out of whack and said if she wasn't so active she probably wouldn't have been able to walk. She's much better but feels as if it might be coming back.

There was some speculation about Meniere's as some of her symptoms were similar. It sounds as if too much loud sounds can contribute to that later in lfe so some earplugs may be a very wise investment.

And I already have a set of the etymotics. There were not at all expensive. I purchased another hearing protector for loud noises such as power tools and stuff and then was thinking of my daughter when I ordered the etymotics. I can't stand the foam ear plugs and the over the ear (cheap) hearing protectores I have get awfully hot and uncomfortable. I'll have to suggest it to her when they're playing loud music as it seems she's got to be more sensitve in her ears due to all her past and possibly ongoing problems and will definitely try to remember to ask her ENT.

Thanks,

Ben

[LarryC]

Ben,

Not suitable for your daughter, but for use with your power tools, you might consider a pair of the 30db protective headphones sold in sporting and gun shops. Finding and asking an ENT who specializes in and has a good grasp of inner ear diseases is a good idea, since knowledge in that area seems to be all too spotty.

I have Meniere's and deafness in one ear, fortunately not in the other. Certain loud sounds were the main cause IMO. I'm sorry your daughter is having those kinds of problems. Inner-ear problems can be a real ***** in one's life.

[BLSamuel]

Larry,

I may have to try those. Originally I've used the very inexpensive over the ear models availalbe in any home centers similar to the set in the attached photo. I also have a large package of the foam ones identical to the attached photo. They do get kind of hot but I don't like things jammed in my ears either (though I use the Custom 2 on a daily basis at work). I do have a set of the Surefire and Etyplugs also shown in the posted photo.

I forget the symptoms of Meniere's but it did sound like at the very least it'd be very annoying. I remember that you're deaf in one ear from last year's Pilgrimage but keep forgetting that when we've spoken - hopefully I'll get better at remembering that. One of my co-worker's is deaf in one ear and after a few years of working together I'm finally starting to remember when I go speak to her. My mother lost her hearing in one ear at the age of 51 so being 46 now I'm better at paying attention to overly loud sounds.

Our daughter's ENT does seem to have a good grasp of inner ear diseases and runs a balance clinic to test for all kinds of things related to the inner ear. Those problems can range from barely noticeable to incapacitating. In hindsight she'd probably been battling balance issue most of her life - little things such as veering to the right while walking in the mall or instance. Following her first tests he said had she not been so active plaing sports and the like that by the test he'd have expected her to not even be able to stand up much less walk and expected her grades to be much lower than the As and Bs she's managed to maintain. He's also good at talking to his young patients as opposed to ignoring them and talking to the parents as some doctor's do.

Thankfully at least one of your ears is fine and even though I forgot most of what I read about Meniere's it sounds like a constant battle.

Any suggestions on the types of loud sounds to avoid?

Given that she has ear problems, the thought of one of her classmates being an idiot and blasting their trombone or trumpet directly into her ear worries me a bit. The good news is, she isn't annoyed by things stuck in her ears as much as I am. She was 10 when she got her 1st tube put in, in the doctor's office, it was her decision though I could veto it, but he asked her and let her decide... we can put it in now or essentially knock you out. She didn't even flinch. He said he's not had an adult that was as calm or handled it so well or as quietly. I cringe just getting the wax vacuumed out of my ears. Pretty tough kid I guess but after way too many ear infections when she was younger it just didn't bother her so much and greatly improved her hearing ability almost instantly.

p.s. In case I didn't post elsewhere, I really enjoyed your classical presentation. Watching the conuctors and equating it to what was going on was amazing. I think Solti and Abbado were the most interesting to watch.

[colterphoto1]

I don't run so much as a blender without ear plugs. EAR foamies tapered or multiple flange are my faves. If I were a musician (in my dreams) I'd go for one of the ones with a diaphragm that slams shut at louder passages but maintains frequency response. Nortronics comes to mind.

Now back to our A/B thread, hopefully you all took those at Reasonable volume levels?

[Coytee]

I've mentioned them before and I'll do it again. I've got the Dimension 2 (you can plug in a radio or Ipod) and love them.

http://www.pro-ears.com/shootingsportshearingprotection.htm#dimensionseries

[LarryC]

In case I didn't post elsewhere, I really enjoyed your classical presentation. Watching the conuctors and equating it to what was going on was amazing. I think Solti and Abbado were the most interesting to watch.

Thanks for mentioning that. I would have liked to see posts on what they thought from others whom I didn't know before. I liked Abaddo the best, myself.

[LarryC]

I've mentioned them before and I'll do it again. I've got the Dimension 2 (you can plug in a radio or Ipod) and love them.

http://www.pro-ears.com/shootingsportshearingprotection.htm#dimensionseries

Richard, are those aimed at all types of sound, or mostly gunfire transients? Their online info is not clear about that. Note that where they say some sounds are reduced "by 50%" over some threshold, the 50% is only a 3db drop, a small amount in human hearing terms. My guess is they are very good at reducing low-frequency impact from gunfire.

What I don't see is a decibel rating of how much the sound level is reduced. The over-ear hunting muffs I use are rated at -30db, and I believe that's through most of the audible range. I have to wear foam ear plugs in addition, so I have perhaps 40db reduction. Note that many sounds travel through the skull and not just through the ears, so more sound reduction may not be possible through over-the-ear devices.

The Pro-Ears appear to shape the frequency response of their protection, and if so probably wouldn't be suitable for me because I need protection from steady sounds as well as transients. I need protection on up past 1000 Hz, not just 150 or even 300.

[LarryC]

Ben,

I use two types of ear protector: One, the EAR foam plugs from NoiseBusters.com -- http://www.noisebustersdirect.com/products/best_selling/310-1033.html. You roll those between your fingers and insert into the ear where they (usually) expand into a tight fit. They are comfortable and don't get hot, unlike the plastic jobs. Especially good for being unobtrusive and tapering down high-pitched sounds, which I consider more dangerous.

Although the -27db over-ear phones pictured below are a lovely hunter's (or automobile) green, I use black ones rated at -30db or so.

Peltor has a wide selection. I suggest you visit a hunting goods store to try out what would suit you best. This is an interesting commentary.

[BLSamuel]

Larry,

Thanks for the great information.

Do you have the black ProEars that're pictured on the link of the Green ones?

The green ones claim to be active and stop sound above 85 db so could allow one to hear normal conversation for $30. The black ProEars available as a link from that page are still only about $35 and claim 33db and are Made In The USA. Not as cool as Coytee's active ProEars but I could probably find some nice used speakers with a bit of work for the difference in cost. I can see the value in being able to hear normal conversation though. The black ones even claim "No-sweat ear seals for all-day comfort" so would be a HUGE improvement over my really cheap ones with vinyl ear seals and only a little foam in the earcups, no idea what they're rated. Probably enough to avoid hearing damage for most normal situations but barely. I'd think 85 db would be a little high for long term use though for shooting it would make sense as it's relatively quiet between rounds. I think I may have to give the black ProEars a try. For short team use like a table saw and the like the over the ear are a lot more convenient than the foam plugs though in all fairness I haven't yet tried the SureFire or Ety's though I think I'll save the Ety's for now for my daugher.

I can't stand things in my ears though with the black ProEars maybe I could enjoy my Custom 2 while I mow - assuming I could still hear the dogs bark and the like. And no need to hear a table saw or router too well.

[LarryC]

Ben, my -30 or more black over-ears are comfortable for long periods -- 6 hours of flying is no problem, for example, though periodic relief is welcome. I can hear many normal sounds and fairly loud speaking, but have to take them off to hear the stew or captain speak in the noisy plane environment. I have no experience with phones that limit to 85 db, but wouldn't be surprised if that's what gets through the phones while flying because it's noisy inside those jets! Foam plugs are much less protective, not in the same league as -30db over-ears. Minus 30db is 1000X less power, btw.

My condition sure wouldn't be able to handle table-saw noise! The headphones would be a minimum necessity.

I didn't answer your earlier question about noises to avoid. I suspect that's very tricky; inner-ear is SO kaleidoscopic, that every problem of even just myself seems to be a little different. I have always been vulnerable to sharp, percussive sounds, even very low levels of extremely rapid-onset electronic clicks. Perhaps because my disease started with disruption of the little grains in the ampulla of Vater, near the junction of the cochlea and the semicircular canals. On the other hand, I have never had the classic whirling vertigo of semicircular canal Meniere's, thank heavens. Heavy bass transients will definitely raise my very variable tinnitus, so I stay away from excessive subwoofer sounds (the Palladium subs were VERY nicely tailored to the P-37's in my classics demo!) and any loud percussive sounds. I have this feeling that the most bothersome types of sound in a Meniere's may be similar to those that caused it to begin with.

IOW, I can't identify sounds that might be universal for everyone. So, I would avoid or reduce any very loud sound, whether percussive or steady, especially those concentrated around particular frequencies. I'd also avoid subjecting your head and ears to violent shaking movements. I think a Meniere's can be precipitated by a sharp blow to the head, for example.

Hope this either helps or doesn't lead you astray.

[Zen Traveler]

Isn't it a fact that the louder speaker will usually be judged as "sounding better" than the lower volume speaker when doing an A/B test?

I suprised they weren't level matched before the testing began.

Several years ago they did a A/B comparison between the RF-7 and the Cornwall III that I wish would have been level-matched....