Peach II Questions

[Macallan]

Peach II Questions

I recently added a Peach II to my RF-7 based system and I have a few questions. My initial impressions are that the Peach adds a sense of depth to the soundstage and makes vocals more prominent (what I was hoping to achieve). I however have also noticed that it softens the attack of the snare drum and the bass sounds more rounded (this is what I have read may also happen)

What I did not expect was that the soundstage width would be decreased. Is this typical?

The center image is very strong and the sense of depth is great but everything is happening front and center.

Even more surprising was that while in HT Bypass mode the “tube sound” is still present. I tried to listen to a song thru the Peach II and then through the Rotel receiver in “HT” mode and the Peach II certainly sounds better but I don’t think the Rotel sounds the same as it did before the insertion of the Peach. Are tubes in the path during the “HT” mode? Could anything else account for this phenomenon?

[jbsl]

When I use just my SS Luxman int amp I have to have my La Scalas facing straight ahead. But when I use the preamp section of the Luxman with my tube amp I have to turn the LS in toward me to get the best sound.

Try experimenting with the angle of the speakers and maybe that will help. I would start with the RF 7s facing straight ahead and then start to angle them in towards you until you hopefully will improve the soundstage but keeps the "sense of depth to the soundstage and makes vocals more prominent" .

If this does not work keep posting and someone else will post other ideas.

[Coytee]

Are tubes in the path during the “HT” mode?

I believe the answer there is no, they are not. To use an anlogy, you can view the HT mode as simply another input however, it's a passthrough input where the input is directly wired to the Peach outputs (that are then connected to an amp).

Does not pass go, does not pass tubes and does not pay you $200!

[]

[frankphess]

As Coyotee said, the tubes have no impact when using home theater bypass. What type of amplifier are you using with the Peach, SS or Tube? Below is a summary of the two modes provided to me from Mark when I was trying to dial in my (version one) Peach. LoZ is "usually" used for SS amps because they usually have a lower impedance, HIZ is "usually" used with higher impedance tube amps...Of course there will be exceptions depending on impedance.

Here are the plusses and minuses of the two modes:

LoZ
+ drives very low impedance loads such as 5KO
+ drives cables up to 50 feet long with no ill effect
+ drives multiple amplifiers such as main and subwoofer
+ or — has a slightly more extended (really slight) top end.
+ often perceived as having tighter bass control, (although that's not my personal opinion.)

HiZ
+ Is the shortest possible signal path (passive components), and least active components between input and output
+ Has the lowest distortion
+ Has the lowest noise
+ Has (IMO) the most clarity
+ Has the least interaction with the PSU
— "Ideally" should be driving modest length cables (6ft) and into a load of about 47KO or more. Even better at 100kO
+ or — has a very slightly less extended top end.

If you use LoZ mode, V2&V3 MUST be the same tube type because each tubes is fully specific to one channel. So, if you want the L&R to sound the same, you need the same tube type in each.

When using LoZ, you MIGHT find your level controls widely different from each other. Left at 2 o'clock and maybe Right at 10 o'clock. This is NOT A PROBLEM, nor should it be a concern. That's WHY we have those controls. It is making up for all the combined small differences between tubes, resistors, and even speaker placement. Don't fret over this - the controls are doing what they are meant to do.
md

Keep in mind that the (3) tubes do NOT have to be the same varietal. V2&V3 must be the same, but can be different than V1. V2&V3 are not the same "kind" of amplifier as V1 which provides all the gain. V2&V3 are compound followers with no gain which are used to greatly reduce the driving impedance. Thus, by using different tubes in V1 than in V2&V3, you can create two very different sounding preamps - more than simply the difference of Mode 1 and Mode 2. Perhaps a Jazz v. Rock sound, or horn speaker v. dynamic speaker, or tube amp v. SS amp, etc.

[Macallan]

"When using LoZ, you MIGHT find your level controls widely different from each other. Left at 2 o'clock and maybe Right at 10 o'clock. This is NOT A PROBLEM, nor should it be a concern. That's WHY we have those controls. It is making up for all the combined small differences between tubes, resistors, and even speaker placement. Don't fret over this - the controls are doing what they are meant to do. "

How do you know how to set the individual levels?

[frankphess]

How the individual levels are set are a matter of preference and they would "normally" be set similarly. But if you have the left speaker 20 feet away and the right speaker 10 feet away the individual levels will allow you to get an even balance between left and right. Mark has a recommendation in the Peach manual of how to set the levels. I believe it states that the individual levels should be set so that when the volume knob is at the 2 o'clock position, that is the loudest you will be listening. Personally, I keep my levels at about the 1 o'clock position and the volume know usually stays between 8-11 o'clock position. If you set the individual levels lower you will have more range in your volume control.

[Coytee]

Regarding the left/right gain controls... with my unit (older style, in case it matters) I need to keep them essentially at full gain, turned all the way up as contrasted with set in the middle.

I can certainly lower them but what I've found is if I had them at the middle of their rotation, essentially 12:00, then I get the most background noise out of my unit. If I turn them down, the noise goes down (as does the gain) BUT if I turn them UP the noise also goes down. Upshot for my specific use is, I've got them maxed out and if I need to tweek something, I do it just a little bit.

Before someone suggests I've got a buggy unit, it's been back to Mark for other reasons and he's checked it out. Also, I've asked about this and although I don't recall the specifics nor technical aspect of the answer, it's not anything wrong with my unit. It's something to do with the right/left sides of the tubes and maybe something to do with how they process the signal.

Either way, it's certainly no big deal for me and I've gotten around it by keeping them maximized. You might try for yourself & see if it happens to yours and if so, notice what happens when you turn them UP (which is interestingly, counter intuitive!)

[]

[SWL]

You might try for yourself & see if it happens to yours and if so, notice what happens when you turn them UP (which is interestingly, counter intuitive!)

Interesting.......I'm gonna try it with mine. I've only experimented frm 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock. [*-)]

Coytee, what amp are you using with your Peach?

[Macallan]

This may be a stupid question but what is the easiest way to set the gain levels? Do I need a test CD with pink noise? I have never tried setting levels by ear to music. Would this be possible to do without the help of a second person?

[Coytee]

Coytee, what amp are you using with your Peach?

Right now as in today, I've got a dbx BX3 hooked up but that's only because I yanked one of my Crown K2's out to lend to someone and have been too lazy to put the Crowns back in.

I've run in the past, a pair of pristine McIntosh MC-30's, Wright 2A3's, Transcendent SE-OTL, McIntosh MC-2102, dbx BX1, dbx BX3 and two Crown K2's. I mention that just in case you (or anyone) think's my gain noise is with my amps... I've had that same issue with all the mentioned amps.

[Coytee]

This may be a stupid question but what is the easiest way to set the gain levels? Do I need a test CD with pink noise? I have never tried setting levels by ear to music. Would this be possible to do without the help of a second person?

No such thing as a stupid question... just stupid answers...(how ironic that I'm now answering?)

Here's what I'd suggest you do, I'm presuming your amps have NO gain controls on them at all.

Take the right/left channel gains of your Peach and turn them all the way DOWN. Take the main volume of your Peach and turn it all the way UP. Now, take your left/right gains and turn them up to about the maximum volume you'd ever think you'd listen. When you are happy with it, you are done. Should take you all of 90 seconds!!

Now, if your amps also have gain controls (as mine do), then it can get more squirrley. At least, for me it did.

I'm trying to recall what I did... I've got amps with gain controls, the Peach with gain controls and also a converter transformer (Art Cleanbox) with a gain control. The Cleanbox converts my RCA cables to XLR cables which I need for my active crossover which ALSO has gain controls.

Where to set all these freaking gain controls?

As I reflect... I turned everything DOWN and started at the amps. I turned the gains all the way UP until I could clearly hear some noise in the speakers, then I turned them down until said noise was gone. (turns out the gains on the amps are about 9:00 and have a max of about 5:00)

Next, I went to the Cleanbox (while leaving the amps at their new position) and maxed the gain on the Cleanbox which of course, created noise. I turned that gain down until that noise was gone.

Last, I had the gains on the Peach and fortunately, I already knew where the best place for those controls were BUT, I went through the process anyway and indeed, today as I'm sitting here typing this, the gains on my Peach are maxed.

You don't need any CD nor pink noise... just adjust as you feel comfrotable with it.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Macallan]

"Take the right/left channel gains of your Peach and turn them all the way DOWN. Take the main volume of your Peach and turn it all the way UP. Now, take your left/right gains and turn them up to about the maximum volume you'd ever think you'd listen. When you are happy with it, you are done. Should take you all of 90 seconds!!"

This is what i have done already but this keeps the left and right gain at the same level. I have been told that in the Lo-Z mode the left and right should rarely be set the same. My question is how to balance the left vs right? I guess I will need to just do the best I can by ear.

[Macallan]

Just read Mark's post, got it. Thanks.

[kev313]

Mark - If you are using HiZ, which tube position has the greatest effect on the sound? IOW - Which is the spot to roll? (sorry for th hijack!)

[Clipped and Shorn]

Most of my audio knowledge and purchasing decisions come from reading this forum. So, I just bought this Tube Roller, now how do I use this again?

Shopping is the fun part of this hobby.

[Macallan]

I have been experimenting with speaker placement and nothing seems to correct the very narrow sound stage. In fact I can hardly tell the difference in the Mono vs Stereo mode. I have had these speakers for 4 years in the same room and the only change has been the Peach, it seems to severly consrict the width of the soundstage. I used the Led Zep song What is and What should never be as a test and the stero effect at the end of the song seems to be coming from slightly left of center to slightly right of center. (Not what I am used to with the Rotel). I did another test in HT bypass mode and played a Test Tone thru the Rotel to see how right, center, left and surround channel levels were. I was suprised to find that when the Test tone played thru the Left speaker it also played thru the Right. It seems as if I am geeting a MONO signal. Any thoughts?

[Macallan]

It's on its way, I am actually glad to find out that something was wrong because i was starting to doubt tubes all together, the soundstage width is simply non-existant.

[Marvel]

...i was starting to doubt tubes all together, the soundstage width is simply non-existant.

I am using one of Mark's BBX preamps with a pair of 2A3 amps, and I often have music sound farther to the left and right of miy LaScalas. I love how my tube equipment mates with my LS.

Bruce

[Macallan]

SO, I think we may have found the problem, my stupidity. Here is how I had the Peach set up.

I connected one set of RCAs to my B&K amp and then used a Y cable to connect the second set of ouputs to my subwoofer cable that split again into L and R at the RSW-15s inputs. Unknowingly this caused everything to sound like MONO. I sent the Peach back thinking it was defective only to discover that it was my set up that was incorrect. So here is my question. Why would the sub send ANY signal back into the preamp? I had no idea that sending a MONO signal TO the Subwoofer would affect the signal sent to the amp and my mains. I called Klipsch to ask them and they seemed to think that it was the preamp and not the RSW-15. I think Mark is correct but don't understand why. If I used 2 seperate RCA cables from the Peach into the RSW-15 will this fix the problem?

[Jeff Matthews]

Kudos, Mark. I like the way you just jump right in and help w/issues. All the good comments about the Klipsch community really are pretty accurate. A bunch of good-hearted audioloons! []