Khorns, distant SE amp - cable recommendations?

[jharmon]

Hello,

I am brand new to the forum - in fact I happily just found it.

I got myself a pair of beautiful 70s vintage Klipschorns a while back. It would be an understatement to say that I absolutely love them connected to my Don Garber WE421A amp!

I've tried a few different things wrt speaker cables and now, due to a remodel imposed by the boss, need to figure out a good choice given a 45 foot distance... Any ideas?

Thanks so much for any thoughts on the subject!

Jim

[Hifi jim]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Some people do not believe that cables sound different or that expensive cables are "snake oil". I've tried some cables and hear a difference in most of them. Given your long distance, Nordost quickly comes to mind as their unique design permits long runs with little effect on sound. Their parallel conductors help eliminate RF noise which of course is ideal for long runs. Their flat design is also ideal for placing them under carpeting or area rugs. I've also used Kimber 4tc in some pretty long lengths (about 20ft) with excellent results. Nordost cables sound like nothing else, and some find them lean or tipped up, this is especially true of their lower end products from Blue Heavens down. The Red Dawns and anything above it are noticeably fuller sounding with better bass. All Nordost cables excel at speed, detail and harmonic richness. You've made no mention of budget, so Nordost would definitely be on the high end especially in 45ft lengths! Kimber 4tc would be much more affordable. I'm sure some K-horn owners might have a much less expensive suggestion. Naim and Rega also make some very nice speaker cable for little money. There is a seller with some new Rega cable on Audiogon.com right now selling from a spool. Audiogon and eBay will often have long lengths of different Kimber Kable for reasonable prices. You'll save at least 50% off buying used, and they'll be burned in for you. I'm also using 30 ft (for each channel) of 16/2 generic speaker wire in a second system with great results and a cost of next to nothing. Your budget and desired sound are your most important considerations.

[Cal Blacksmith]

Count me in the snake oil column. I have had all kinds of wire in my system and there just is nothing much to say about them, I think if you hear a difference, it is in your head because if you spent $$$$$$$ on cables, they darn well should sound better but for my ears, I just have not heard any difference.

As to RF and other induced noise, keep any corssing of power wires at 90 degrees to minimise induction and don't worry about it. The audio signal is so much stronger than any microvolt induction you will get in a speaker wire, it just is not a factor. If you are talking about interconnects esp from your phono stage to the preamp, then there is more to talk about, any time yo are amplifing a signal, you will amplify the noise along with the signal but in the amp to speaker run, the amplification is all done and induction inputs are extremley minute if any. There is no such thing as burning in a wire.Electrons are electrons, atoms are atoms, they do not need to be polarized (it is an ac signal, remember?) If mechanics are involved such as in "burning in speakers" with moving parts, there will be some change do to the moving parts loosining up but things like wire, nope, not going to buy it.

I say, just get good quality wire in somethng about 14 gauge and you should be fine. Price, around $30 for 100', divide in half and you should have more than enough for your stereo pair.

[jtnfoley]

I, too, am sqaurely in the 'Snake Oil' column... But if you must spend money on wire a high-strand-count relatively large guage 'lamp cord' solution can be found at marine stores. This configuration is used for boat 'shore power.' A large number of small diameter strands makes for very flexible cable, and the jacket is also engineered for flexibility... Theoretically, high strand count means lower resistance.

[dbflash]

welcome to the forum.

my khorns are each 33' from my amps.

i was using Blue Jean Cables Canare 4S11(10 gauge wire at $1.10/foot) cable and i had no problems. i bought 70' in bulk and use no termnination.

good luck

danny

[Hifi jim]

There is no such thing as burning in a wire

I have to strongly disagree. My Nordost SPM's were a completely different wire after about 3 solid months of burn-in. Noticeable to everyone who heard before and after, and definitely not a subtle change. Bass was much improved, the midrange became more coherent and bloomed, and the highs became oh so silky. Perhaps some wires don't have as much of a burn in issue, however every Nordost cable I've bought has shown huge changes over time. If you think all wires sound the same, try adding a pair of Nordost interconnects anywhere in the system and listen.

[jtnfoley]

Here are some examples of that to which I was referring: http://gencable.com/index.shtml?cables/flat_boat_cable.htm

[Hifi jim]

Here are some examples of that to which I was referring: http://gencable.com/index.shtml?cables/flat_boat_cable.htm

I personally would never use tinned wire in my audio system. Copper, or silver plated copper only for me.

[jtnfoley]

Here are some examples of that to which I was referring: http://gencable.com/index.shtml?cables/flat_boat_cable.htm

I personally would never use tinned wire in my audio system. Copper, or silver plated copper only for me.

Yeah... I should have qualified that. The tin will kill any benefit to be had in the higher strand count.

I could not google up the non-tinned stuff I've seen before.

[mike stehr]

I personally would never use tinned wire in my audio system. Copper, or silver plated copper only for me.

Well then, you better start tearing all the hook-up wire out of that Pioneer A/V receiver, because it is full of tinned wire. Same with the rest of your electronics.....it's full of that crappy tinned wire.

I'm sure one can find silver plated copper hook up wire of course, but I'm thinking the majority of it is just plain old tinned wire. Tinned copper wire, be it solid or stranded, isn't a bad thing. When it comes down to lasting for years and years, un-tinned copper wire isn't going to last.

So when you say you would never use untinned wire in your audio system, maybe you should be more specific.......

[Hifi jim]

So when you say you would never use untinned wire in your audio system, maybe you should be more specific.......

I've never looked inside my receiver, but good to know. The Pioneer is a temp fix for music until I can use my two channel non remote set up again for reasons covered in the thread "Thursday is Palladium day". Once I'm back on track using my favorite vintage gear I think it will be safe to say that I'm "tin free". The non tin plated wire in my vintage components is holding up just fine after fifty years, but then I don't live on the beach and I keep my shower area separate from my listening area. I can say I've never seen tinned speaker cable outside of commercial grade, must be a reason.

[Cal Blacksmith]

There is no such thing as burning in a wire

I have to strongly disagree. My Nordost SPM's were a completely different wire after about 3 solid months of burn-in. Noticeable to everyone who heard before and after, and definitely not a subtle change. Bass was much improved, the midrange became more coherent and bloomed, and the highs became oh so silky. Perhaps some wires don't have as much of a burn in issue, however every Nordost cable I've bought has shown huge changes over time. If you think all wires sound the same, try adding a pair of Nordost interconnects anywhere in the system and listen.

I say again, snake oil. I have some nice little rocks that when placed on your speakers smooth out the mids and highs without disturbing your bass I will sell them for their equal weight in gold.

[Hifi jim]

 

There is no such thing as burning in a wire

I have to strongly disagree. My Nordost SPM's were a completely different wire after about 3 solid months of burn-in. Noticeable to everyone who heard before and after, and definitely not a subtle change. Bass was much improved, the midrange became more coherent and bloomed, and the highs became oh so silky. Perhaps some wires don't have as much of a burn in issue, however every Nordost cable I've bought has shown huge changes over time. If you think all wires sound the same, try adding a pair of Nordost interconnects anywhere in the system and listen.

I say again, snake oil. I have some nice little rocks that when placed on your speakers smooth out the mids and highs without disturbing your bass I will sell them for their equal weight in gold.

I've never mentioned rocks, just wire. Buy some, listen and then argue your point. If you've never heard Nordost wires, how are you then able to pass judgment?

[Islander]

KnuKonceptz sells copper, tinned copper and silver-plated copper speaker cables in various sizes. I'm using 8 gauge Karma Kable for my woofers and 10 gauge Karma Kable for the tweeters. It sounds much better than the cheap stuff I was using before and it's not very expensive, either.

The SS refers to the colour, Smoke/Silver, a change from the earlier blue and silver.

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?Category=Speaker%20Wire

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?category=Karma%20SS%20Speaker%20Kable

[Hifi jim]

KnuKonceptz sells copper, tinned copper and silver-plated copper speaker cables in various sizes.  I'm using 8 gauge Karma Kable for my woofers and 10 gauge Karma Kable for the tweeters.  It sounds much better than the cheap stuff I was using before and it's not very expensive, either.

The SS refers to the colour, Smoke/Silver, a change from the earlier blue and silver.

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?Category=Speaker%20Wire

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?category=Karma%20SS%20Speaker%20Kable

Thanks for the input Islander, I've never seen tinned cable aimed at the consumer market. Belden has made a similar tinned cable for years but it was directed at commercial installations. Tin is a decent enough conductor and a superconductor below 3.72 K but high end cable manufacturers seem to avoid its use. I remember reading some reasoning on it years back, but its point escapes me now. I'm sure it had to do with skin effect and the audible effects of tin plating. I'll do some research and see if I can find the article.

[mike stehr]

The non tin plated wire in my vintage components is holding up just fine after fifty years. I can say I've never seen tinned speaker cable outside of commercial grade, must be a reason.

I'm kinda confused as to what you reference as tinned wire.......what sort of 50 year old vintage components do you have that uses non tin plated wire?

I'm working on a 50 year year vintage tube amp at the moment, and it uses tinned wire. The old hook-up wire, and the transformer leads are stranded tinned wire. Some hook up wire is solid core, and it is tinned. Most every vintage tube amplifier and or vintage transformer lead I have come across uses tinned wire.

I really doubt it's silver plated wire.....it's just plain ol' tinned wire from what I understand.

No why speaker wire isn't plated is a good point, there must be a reason.

[Hifi jim]

The non tin plated wire in my vintage components is holding up just fine after fifty years. I can say I've never seen tinned speaker cable outside of commercial grade, must be a reason.

I'm kinda confused as to what you reference as tinned wire.......what sort of 50 year old vintage components do you have that uses non tin plated wire?

I'm working on a 50 year year vintage tube amp at the moment, and it uses tinned wire. The old hook-up wire, and the transformer leads are stranded tinned wire. Some hook up wire is solid core, and it is tinned. Most every vintage tube amplifier and or vintage transformer lead I have come across uses tinned wire.

I really doubt it's silver plated wire.....it's just plain ol' tinned wire from what I understand.

No why speaker wire isn't plated is a good point, there must be a reason.

I may stand corrected Mike. I use a Scott 222 that I can see some exposed wiring that is not tin plated (perhaps a repair, but I thought it to be all original). If Craig from NOS reads this, I'm sure he could tell us if Scott amps came with or without tinned wires. Of course my original quote was about speaker cables and interconnects, and I don't know the reason but I remembered after reading the story to stay away from tinned speaker cables. It stuck with me as I use to always tin the bare ends of my speaker cables for easier hook up, and to avoid fray. I haven't done it since, but if only I could remember why.