Music server newbie

[joshnich]

Very nice looking, and the basic price is not too awful.

>Supports music playback in 24-bit/96khz, 250 times the resolution of CD music!

???? If that is true, you'd need a couple of terabytes for one song!

It is still about twice what such things should cost though, in my estimation, even with a good size display. Embedded Media Linux is free, Audiophile-class soundcards are around 150.00, and full sized touchscreen displays are 150.00 or so. If you want to go full no moving parts, add another 250.00 or so for 100gb of flash storage. Personally, I'd prefer to see one with just display, DAC, and network as most of us into this have gone to remote file servers for music storage (Much safer and no noise or size issues), and I'd like to see one with 1 bit, 2.8mhz record/rip capability as this is the "universal" high res format for lossless transcoding. At the moment, I am sort of "retro" on my main system. My main music room occupies what was a bedroom with "jack and jill" bath access. The sink anteroom has a door from this room and my equipment rack was place there for easy access to the back through that door. So I put a conventional PC in there where noise is irrelevant and ran wireless mouse, keyboard, audio, and video lines through so I can control it from the listening position an view it on the big screen monitor. Very nice...and cost effective. Nice to have a real "powerhouse" in there! I can even edit HD video. MBS-5 can't even PLAY standard def! My Ramsey FM transmitter is also in there and it broadcasts whatever is playing on that system from the secondary line output of my Super PAS4I preamp. Finally, whatever one pays for it, until you've experience having a very large collection only a couple of clicks away and being able to build large playlists for any need you really don't know just how marvelous it is!

I certainly understand wanting "plug and play." Most audiophiles want to LISTEN, not fiddle. That is true in large part with me, but when I got interested in music servers around 2002 it was not an option and I learned so much doing it that I simply can't be satisfied yet with the commerical offerings.

I am glad that some products are getting to the point of being "audiophile ready." I just wish they'd catch up with technology.

Dave

Yeah I pretty much knew that there were more cost effective ways to go. The thought of figuring out how to combine all of those things and make them work gives me a headache! I am a mac guy - since 1984 (in fact I worked for the ad agency that did the 1984 spot for macintosh). I have never owned or used a pc. I am really not even sure how to turn one on. And as easy as macs are to use I still didnt want to do this the computer way. Maybe its becuase I like my components to look like components! Who knows. But I admit that the server is the way to go. I am listening to more music, different music and music I havent listened to in years. What fun!

Josh

[Mallette]

>...second only to my vinyl... maybe I need a better DAC

No question, if it does not sound as good as vinyl. My location recordings made with MBS-5 (total cost around 800.00) are well ahead of vinyl in playback quality.

> I'm sure you'll have a lifetime of work as Microsoft isn't going anywhere it seems.

Yes, unfortunately. Actually about 4 times as much work as should be necessary to simply do what I was doing over a decade ago with far more facile operating systems. I see cracks in the armor, but it is going to outlast me.

As you can tell, I am not going on an anti-Apple or pro Microsoft crusade here. I don't like either of them and they are both very poor operating systems that "multi-task" only at the crudest levels, really smoke and mirrors and not true mult-tasking at all.

Frankly, I don't even find Linux to be where we ought to be at this point, BUT it IS open source, basically free, and is exploring areas, like embedded media Linux, that smoke Apple and Windoze to pieces. Downside is that you have to be a geek to do much with it. [8-|]

Anyway, we still aren't there yet with commercial media servers. Those that have merit are way too expensive for what is inside (about 400.00 worth of parts available from Fry's for the very high end) and the cheaper ones just have too many problems. It will come. I still will build a little no moving parts Linux server here in the not too distant future just to see where we are. For the moment, MBS-5 and my other music server combined with TeraStation are doing the job nicely. The Ramsey FM transmitter is a hands-down winner when it comes to distributing very high quality audio all over the house for 157.00 with all the learning curve for the PAW of "tune to 87.8 sweetheart." Don't know why I didn't do that years ago. Highly recommended...

Dave

[Mallette]

>...second only to my vinyl... maybe I need a better DAC

No
question, if it does not sound as good as vinyl. My location
recordings made with MBS-5 (total cost around 800.00) are well ahead of
vinyl in playback quality.

> I'm sure you'll have a lifetime of work as Microsoft isn't going anywhere it seems.

Yes,
unfortunately. Actually about 4 times as much work as should be
necessary to simply do what I was doing over a decade ago with far more
facile operating systems. I see cracks in the armor, but it is going
to outlast me.

As you can tell, I am not going on an anti-Apple
or pro Microsoft crusade here. I don't like either of them and they
are both very poor operating systems that "multi-task" only at the
crudest levels, really smoke and mirrors and not true mult-tasking at
all.

Frankly, I don't even find Linux to be where we ought to
be at this point, BUT it IS open source, basically free, and is
exploring areas, like embedded media Linux, that smoke Apple and
Windoze to pieces. Downside is that you have to be a geek to do much
with it. [8-|]

Anyway, we still aren't there yet with commercial
media servers. Those that have merit are way too expensive for what is
inside (about 400.00 worth of parts available from Fry's for the very
high end) and the cheaper ones just have too many problems. It will
come. I still will build a little no moving parts Linux server here in
the not too distant future just to see where we are. For the moment,
MBS-5 and my other music server combined with TeraStation are doing the
job nicely. The Ramsey FM transmitter is a hands-down winner when it
comes to distributing very high quality audio all over the house for
157.00 with all the learning curve for the PAW of "tune to 87.8
sweetheart." Don't know why I didn't do that years ago. Highly
recommended...

Dave

[Mallette]

Sorry about the double. It took some doing. When I hit 'Post" the delay was too long and I'd written so much I did not want to lose it. I hit Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C and a couple of seconds later it went to an error page. Backed up, the field was empty. I pasted back in, hit post again, and it did the same thing.

Backed up one level and reentered the 2 Channel section, and both posts were there.

Dave

[Hifi jim]

 >...second only to my vinyl... maybe I need a better DAC

No question, if it does not sound as good as vinyl.   My location recordings made with MBS-5 (total cost around 800.00) are well ahead of vinyl in playback quality.

Yeah, I'm sure my AVR could be bettered by a Benchmark or such, but the sound is really awesome and as I've said better than my current cd playback. The DAC section in the 49tx is among the best I've owned, Pioneer really went all out on that receiver using Burr-Brown 24/192 DAC's on all channels. Vinyl, especially since upgrading my table and cart recently are still better but then it does depend on the recording as you are all too aware. All of my older recordings sound really good, but vinyl wins usually hands down. Modern recordings, of course, sound superb on iTunes through my DAC. I just love the convenience of surfing the web and listening to music (the music I want and when I want) all on my lap. I can even control volume and add eq when needed, but most times I leave those off. Maybe digital isn't so bad []

[Hifi jim]

Sorry about the double.  It took some doing.  When I hit 'Post" the delay was too long and I'd written so much I did not want to lose it.  I hit Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C and a couple of seconds later it went to an error page.  Backed up, the field was empty.  I pasted back in, hit post again, and it did the same thing.  

Backed up one level and reentered the 2 Channel section, and both posts were there.   

Dave

Getting a lot of errors on here too recently. Something seems amiss.

[Rich_Guy]

Rich_Guy,

What was the cost of major components you used (case, sound card, etc.) ? Can you also give more details about the motherboard, CPU, RAM, etc. ?

Kudret

The case I used is a real jewel, the quality is excellent I really recommend Origen Ae

their cases are the highest quality I have seen. The Origen AE H7 case I used is one of

their older models which has been discontinued. I paid $179.95 for the case which was a

great deal, I bought it from http://www.pcalchemy.com I must have got the last one they had

as they removed the model from their website the day after I ordered mine. The case has IR

so it can be controlled by remote, it included a Media Center remote but I use my own URC

MX-850 remote.

I use Vista Home Premium for the operating service, I found a good deal online for an

"upgrade version" I paid $83.99 which included free shipping.

The sound card I used is from Auzentech www.auzentech.com they make the best sound cards I

have seen I have their X-Plosion model. I think I paid around $79.95 for the sound card

from Newegg, I have been using it for about a year and a half it was in another computer I

was using for music before I built the new music server. The X-Plosion model now has a

newer version than mine. The sound quality from this card is excellent, I use digital

optical cable to my Onkyo receiver.

I used the main components from an old computer I had I was no longer using, it was an old

HP pavillion 7965. This is an old Pentium 4-1700 CPU which is plenty of power for a music

server. I had upgraded the memory in this computer to 1GB a long time ago (it originally

had 512MB) I also upgraded the video card years ago to an Nvidia PNY GeForce 6200 GS which

is more than enough card since this not a game computer. This computer is for music only.

While it is a smaller older machine, it has more power than nessecary for a music only

computer. I use two Western Digital 250 GB hard drives for 500 GB total. I also upgraded

one of the DVD drives on this computer to a Sony RW drive, it has 2 DVD drives.

This machine works excellent, sounds better than CD quality,looks great and blends with

high end audio equipment. It works well with remote, I use my MX-850 remote, I also a

Logitech diNovo keyboard and a Kensington Slimblade Media mouse with this machine.

Also I use Music Giants as my prefered place to purchase music, I use both Music Giants and

Napster to buy music downloads. I had tried itunes once and thought it was awful and

immediately took it off my computer. I use Windows Media Player 11 and Windows Media

Center, I can completely control Windows Media Center by my remote, however most often

I prefer to use WMP 11. I also added G-force visualizations.

When I built this about 2 months ago I already had everything except the case and operating

system software. I am very happy with the results.

[Mallette]

Why is he a Rich_Guy?

Cuz he knows how to put together a music server on the CHEEP!

Nice going...

Dave

[bliss53]

Can't beat a Mac with iTunes these days. Can also easily set up wireless with gobs of cheap storage. Remote control via iphone or itouch. Coverflow display. It sounds good, easy to do, ultra organized and bit perfect. How'd ya like a fruit roll-up?

Not to mention hi-res.

I'm waiting on the Wavelength Proton Dac to see how it stacks up the the Benchmark.

Transports are going to be history as well as spinning hardrives. Servers will go silent solid state. Hope they can put some tubes in there for looks

I am using a mac mini with itunes and I use the USB connection to a M audio audiophile interface. I want to upgrade the dac interface. What are you using and what would you recommend? I would like to preserve my ability to record vinyl to lossless files so the DAC would have to work in two directions. Computer>DAC> preamp (for playback) and phono preamp>DAC> computer (for recording).

[eq_shadimar]

There are also the old standbys of Slimdevices ( http://www.slimdevices.com ) now owned by Logitech and Sonos ( http://www.sonos.com ) for people looking for more out of the box solutions. The Slimdevices Transport is a high end streamer for those willing to pay. They both offer niffty remotes and whole house audio solutions if that is what you require. The open source SqueezeCenter from Slimdevices is really a neat an powerful FREE program that works with lots of devices.

Laters,

Jeff

[Mallette]

There are also the old standbys of Slimdevices ( http://www.slimdevices.com ) now owned by Logitech and Sonos ( http://www.sonos.com ) for people looking for more out of the box solutions. The Slimdevices Transport is a high end streamer for those willing to pay. They both offer niffty remotes and whole house audio solutions if that is what you require. The open source SqueezeCenter from Slimdevices is really a neat an powerful FREE program that works with lots of devices.

Laters,

Jeff

Hmmm... I tried SlimServer and had nothing but trouble. There were really no instructions and it has a strange interface. Also seemed to crash a lot. That's been maybe a year. Is SqueezeCenter something new? Have you tried it? It would be nice to have something like SlimServer that worked.

Dave

[InnerTuber]

I'm waiting on the Wavelength Proton Dac to see how it stacks up the the Benchmark.

I am using a mac mini with itunes and I use the USB connection to a M audio audiophile interface. I want to upgrade the dac interface. What are you using and what would you recommend? I would like to preserve my ability to record vinyl to lossless files so the DAC would have to work in two directions. Computer>DAC> preamp (for playback) and phono preamp>DAC> computer (for recording).

I have one of those and an M Audio 410.

I'm interested in the Benchmark Pre (http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac1pre/) ~$1,500, but want to see how this winds up too, the Proton (http://www.usbdacs.com/Products/Products.html) which should be out soon I think. ~$1,000

I like both and both companies line of products are well received. There are many choices both higher and lower in cost. You can read a lot about them here (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/forum).

Ripping vinyl with some of these DACs would be a no go. M-Audio is cool that way. I'm actually thinking about just going with a USB turntable along the lines of this (http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debutphusb&cat=turntables) ~$400.

I'm sure there are other DAC and AD converters out there, but I don't hunt them. If you like the sound of the M-Audio stuff (which I'm ok with cause I don't really have anything else) it's hard to beat. Hard to find anymore too. I do think that a better DAC will improve things, but it's a big jump in price to the next level.

[Rich_Guy]

Here is a link to the desktop image I created for my music server. My music server connects to my 50 inch Panasonic plasma TH-50PH9UK display. It looks very nice on the plasma, much better than on the monitor I am using to post this now

http://www.petitesweets.com/Vista.jpg

[bliss53]

Here is a pic of itunes on a projection screen.

[eq_shadimar]

Hmmm... I tried SlimServer and had nothing but trouble. There were really no instructions and it has a strange interface. Also seemed to crash a lot. That's been maybe a year. Is SqueezeCenter something new? Have you tried it? It would be nice to have something like SlimServer that worked.

Dave

Dave -

SqueezeCenter is the current version of SlimServer and it is much improved over SlimServer. I looked at it briefly but I do not use it currently. Once I got my NAS I simply use direct connection to the data on the NAS either via SMB (Windows Networking) or UPnP/DLNA. The NAS also supports NFS and TCP/IP connections. For playback I use a notebook running XBMC (Xbox Media Center for Windows XP) or my Popcorn Hour. The NAS and the end use device are the only pieces of equipment needed to make this all work. If anyone is looking for front end software for their HTPC I strongly suggest that you look at the XBMC program.

Laters,

Jeff

[jacksonbart]

Well I have an update, Olive did fix the issues and did get me a server working in good order. I have to say this one is still a work in progress, as they continue to update the software (you get software down loads with new features and bug fixes about once a month) and this thing is getting really cool. The interface is so much easier after the October 13th update. I have about 7500 songs/610 + albums on this puppy right now. With the last update I am now update the album covers, the drag and drop approach is very clever and much better than the Olive Musica that I love. This thing is as silent as a church mouse and I have got to say its pretty cool that it keeps evolving into a better product. The wireless aspect is very cool, besides internet radio, you can pump your music all over the house. Still not perfect, but its getting there, Top Notch!!!

http://www.olive.us/products/opus4.html

[joshnich]

Hey jacksonbart.

Good news on the Olive. I too am loving the opus (as well as the Melody unit in my bedroom) very much. Its great having all that music easy to find and ready to play with a click on a screen. Way cool. When you speak of the drag and drop approach, I am assuming that you refering to the on-line Maestro management deal are you not? I think that's pretty cool as well. I am still figuring out all that it can do in regards to relabeling the music.

Josh

[skonopa]

Well, count me into the Music Server Newbie club.

After finding out that Tweeter is going out of business, I went and stopped by the one here in Fredericksburg. I've never seen so many friggan big-screen TVs roll out of that place before like I've seen today. Seems people are snatching those things up while the getting is good. Anyway, I wanted to go in and get a Panamax power conditioner, the one with the built-in UPS functionality that normally went for around $500. Unfortunatly, they were all gone by the time I got in there (they had one left, but it was already spoken for).

Anyway, I eyed an Elan Via!DJ music server. This thing normally runs for nearly $3,600, but I scored it for less than $1,200! I managed to get it all setup and running, but only got one album ripped into it now. According to the user's manual, I should be able to stream/copy music into it from my 1+ terebyte server I got in one of the backrooms into this thing, although I need to download and install some software for it. Granted, this is an older model (from what I understand, there is now a Via!DJ II that has been out for sometime now as well), however, I am not complaining. This thing does everything I need it to do. Right now, I have Amaseffer, Exodus : Slaves for Life, playing on it just to try it out. Figured this would make for a very nice birthday present for myself (turned 39 yesterday! []).

[jacksonbart]

Hey just wondering if any Olive Opus4 users got the new software release yet? The network features are nice and I like the Maestro web interface better. Since I have gotten my Verizon network issues under control, I now have internet radio on both the Oliver server in the basement and the Melody2 upstairs. I gotta say I am spoiled and cannot go back to switching CDs or relying on MP3 mix CDs. This thing you can point and click on anything you want to hear, browse by Genre, album artwork, artists, albums names. Its also nice to be able to create playlists.

[jacksonbart]

Here is the album artwork page, the pictures are being resized so you need to double click on the to see them in the real size. The just improved the remote interface to be much speedier, but I still find the internal network web site the best, I can access it on any PC in the house on my network. So I have a small laptop I usually use or a Nokia touch screen PDA.