John Warren Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I am shopping for two 4x8 sheets likely Zebrawood. I have decided to use oakwood veneer. They have a huge selection and are very nice http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/prices.html I was talking to a veneer guy last week about veneer. He uses contact cement on both surfaces the mdf and back of the veneer. He says once they make contact you had best have them in the right place because it isn't moving Greg also shows the process he goes through to reveneer. http://www.dcchomes.com/Gregsaudio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I have tried several different approaches. For glue, I like the contact cement the best. However, the veneer I like the best is paper-backed veneer and it is not recommended to use contact cement with that type of veneer. So for that reason I am now using Heatlock glue from www.joewoodworker.com I had so many problems with raw wood veneer that I will not ever use it again. Just not worth it. When you buy paper-backed veneer from www.oakwoodveneer.com you will get premium veneer, perfectly matched, at just the right moisture content, glued to a paper backer to hold it stable, and then sanded smooth. 4 x 8 sheets are competitively priced, and they will even take pictures of certain sheets and email them to you so you can see the grain. When I used contact cement, I used NBL backed veneer, which has a rather thick backer that is like luan. I like this veneer to work with, but there are two problems. First, the face is very thin and really cannot be sanded with an orbital sander, and second, the backer really shows up a lot on the edges, so much so that I found I needed to take a tiny artists brush and paint the edges! Just not worth it. Titebond II wood glue was o.k., but the Heatlock is better. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Greg's right about heatlock - great stuff. On ocassion I will use contact cement with paperbacked veneer, but the trick is to saturate the paper back and it will work well. Generally I only will do that for Heresy's, small things, etc. Interestingly, joewoodworker.com has a new glue called TitanDX which is like super glue!!! Once it's on, the veneer is not coming off, ever!! LOL!! I'm getting ready to buy a quart and try it on a pair of heresy-II's in the workshop using some birch. I'm going to (finally...) do a pair of H's for the workshop (the boombox is not making it for me anymore). They will be mounted up on the slanted ceiling and will be exposed to wildly varying temperatures, etc so it will be a good test to see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 PS: Greg, I have a gallon of Flexpro that Joe developed specially for paper backed if you want it. email with an address and I'll send it to you to fool around with. It's tricky (water based), but may be of interest to you for large sheets and you can avoid the ironing chore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I wonder what the veneer guy would do if I dropped off veneer and glue. I don't want to insult him and he did do veneer at Klipsch for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 John: Generally the glue line is very minimal. You wipe off any excess with whatever solvent applies before laying on your panels. There should be minimal "bleed out"; that normally is solved with the final blending and easing and is usually undetectable. Edges are generall uniform. If you have not fooled with the paperbacked veneer, use a few scrap pieces and practice with it on some scrap birch plywood. Bleedout on the rear panels, e.g., Heresy's is inconsequential and after the veneer is applied, you would likely "detail" your rear panels with a fresh coat of black. That will cover any such imperfections. In the case of contact cement, Flexpro and Heatlock, the bleedout can be removed by rubbing your finger along it and it will "ball up", etc. Bleedout from pre-glued edgebanding is rare, and can be removed with your finger before it "sets". PS: Greg is certainly the master at this stuff!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 One of my favorites is Gregs Shorthorn inspired Heresy's. These are incredible. Killer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 That's an understatement!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 PS: Greg is certainly the master at this stuff!!! Geez, I don't know, that might be going a little far. Actually I'm a bit of a hack. But I know how to cover my mistakes and the end results are pretty good. In my business we ask "what's the difference between a good carpenter and a great one? The great ones know how to hide their mistakes." Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Greg, I sent you an email ref: Flexpro veneer glue// Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted November 29, 2008 Author Share Posted November 29, 2008 c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Excellent feedback! I've ordered a couple of 4x8 sheets of Walnut, Premium AA, 10mil paper back form the oakwoodveneer site. Any tips for gluing it down? I'm being told by a few folks that solvent based contact cement works well for this type but Greg says not so and recommends Heatlock. Thus, I'm confused and would like additional clarification, if at all possible. I would recommend going through the information provided on www.joewoodworker.com I just looked and they say that it is fine to use contact cement with paper-backed veneers. I don't know where I got the information before, but I was under the impression that contact cement didn't work with paper-backed veneer, and I could have sworn it was on that site that I read that. The first Khorn veneer project I did, I used contact cement with NBL backed veneer. Other than the fumes from the contact cement, I liked working with it. It was quick and easy. Then I tried water-based contact cement and that did not work as well. On the next project I went to raw wood veneer, which cannot be used with contact cement, so that's when I started the iron-on method with Titebond II wood glue. I had all kinds of bubbling problems. On subsequent projects I tried different raw wood veneers and a few tweaks to the process, but still had bubbling issues. I've never done a raw wood veneer project that didn't have some kind of issue with bubbling at some point down the line. It's only when I switched to paper-backed veneer with Heatlock that I stopped having issues with bubbling. Given what I just read on the Joewoodworker site, I would be interested in trying contact cement with paper-backed veneer on a future project. Looks like you have your choice of either contact cement or Heatlock for yours. With either one, plan on using a roller to apply the glue. The best roller cover for contact cement is almost like hard rubber with little nubs all around it. I don't know what they're called, and I can't find them shown on their website, but if you go to www.tapeease.com and call their number, you can request roller covers for applying contact cement. I've used the same covers for applying Heatlock and they work well, but I think you could also use a foam type roller cover for Heatlock, or maybe even a very low-nap roller cover, which might be easier to find and cheaper. Tapeease also sells the excellent Virutex line of veneer trimmers. I like the AU-93 double edge trimmer, even though I don't use it the way it was intended. I take this trimmer apart and use each half separately. It gives me four blades to work with, versus other trimmers they sell that give you only one blade. I would also recommend a random-orbit sander. I use these to clean up edges (even end grain), and for all my finish sanding. The Dewalt 5" hook and loop sander is a good sander for the money. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted November 29, 2008 Author Share Posted November 29, 2008 t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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John Warren Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Before oiling- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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John Warren Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 The port. It's bolted into the baffle with machine screws into Tee-nuts. The flange is seated on a felt gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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