anarchist Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hi all, I now realize this audio 'thing' has gotten entirely compulsive after having read through this entire post - which, in all honesty, was very esoteric in nature and largely mental gymnastics. I do realize the fascination was with the threads two main characters who, while dispensing all sorts of information - largely useless to us simpletons who merely ask the basic question, "how does it sound?", have an absolutely amusing Abbott and Costello routine going. You guys need to syndicate this show - perhaps get a gig on comedy central; no one will know what the hell you are talking about but the sarcasm and comedy will come across. Thanks. Now I need to see a shrink for this audio obsession. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 This message has been edited by crash827 on 02-08-2002 at 11:37 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted February 8, 2002 Author Share Posted February 8, 2002 mdeneen, are you serious about the dynaco upgrade? you would be adding goodie$ more than what I shelled out for it in the first place. so the qvestion iz what would I end up with in this dynakit-70 hot rod? this is kind of intriguing, I assume you would be upgrading parts and tubes, would you also be changing things in the circuitry? had you done this particular upgrade before? would anyone else in the future understand and appreciate an $800 Dynakit-70 (eg. how would it later translate into resell value if I ever wanted to part with it after upgrading). btw, i am still using a pretty basic SS Hafler preamp, seems to work fine, but what do i know. -picked and pocketed ps: bottlebarn SR has ample supply of the 2000 Syrah and I understand it is as good as the 1999 but I have not actually tried it myself. Oliver's (Cotati) still has some of the 1999 last time I looked, but bottlebarn sold out and has moved on to the 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hi mdeneen, You aren't asking who are the 'characters' that my post references, are you? You aren't asking who Abbott and Costello were either, right? I assume you are questioning which of you are 'Abbott' and which of you are 'Costello'. I think both of you are capable of playing either part but you likely end up being the straight man more of the time. Hey, if you don't like Abbott and Costello, you can always choose another repartee-heavy duo. Say, Sonny and Cher - you two will have to fight over who will play Cher. Keep it up. You and mobile are a riot with all the bantering between each other. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 I'd like to see this hot rod ST-70... First of all, I hope to hell he gets rid of that idiotic circuit board that hampers the beast and goes to pure point to point wiring. There are actually TONs of places that sell mod kits for the Dynaco ST-70; hell, just about ever parts house has some version of that damn thing... Welborne, Ned, even Audio Research (in the olde days)! Also, the bad thing about those ole Dynaco's are the various levels of transformers that came with the units. Like the Cornwall, the damn things had various levels of transformer performance. You can end up with a Dynaco with the lessor mix of iron, which is conundrum, especially since the transformers are actually the real heart of the tube amp, almost outweighing all other parts. IF you have some good iron, you are way ahead of the game, and can do all sorts of nifty things. That being said, for mdeneen to announce that a mod squad Dynaco 70 can hang with any amp...well, it just aint so... The Dynaco is a neat piece... and who knows what ole mdeneen is really considering, but it wouldnt hold my breath on the giant killer status. I have heard about every incarnation of ST-70 and represent the guy that has the rights, paperwork, forms, and all the tooling for the transformers that were used (now MagneQuest's Mike Lafevre who owns Peerless, Acrosound, and all the OEM Iron that fell under those daddy companies). Indeed, you can put your greasy little paws in your pocketbook and get the exact equivalent of that iron today, hand wound, by ole Mike himself. But first, see which version of the 70 you have. I would also have my ole pal mdeneen let ye olde forum in on his "Mystery Circuit" or the "deneen-O-Valve DeluXe." I am curious myself what he has up his sleeve.... And how long, exactly, this sleeve is.... What an amusing Friday eve you all had without me. I feel a bit left out, as if I wasnt invited to the party. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 02-09-2002 at 01:10 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 Night Train and pickeled Eggs. Mmmmmmmmmmm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 Hi mh, Waaaaayyy off topic! You used the word 'represent' in your last post. Does that imply you are actually an attorney? I am preparing to take the LSAT and go back to school for a law degree. Also saw you liked vintage motorcycles. I am a motorcycle guy myself and used to race them prior to an accident at Daytona in 92 which left my wife determined to never let me race again - bike is in the garage and I am threatening to hit Mid-Ohio; if I get back into race condition...unlikely. On topic! This is the thing with tubes that kills me. You and mdeneen have pointed out repeatedly dozens of factors which could affect the performance of amps within the same model designation. How in the world is a newbie supposed to know whether all them parts on an individual amp are the 'right' ones. Chinese tubes, Russians tubes, good iron, bad iron, etc. I am going to go to estate sales to pick one up but have no clue how to tell if it is a potential $1000 amp or a paperweight. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 Ahhh... the use of "represent" was meant in a different form. Ironically enough, I was an English and Philosophy double major in college, and thought about law at one point as that was a great route of preparation... but came to me senses! heh... As for the represent comment, what I actually meant was that I do the MagneQuest and MQ Bottlehead website and field most of Mike's online questions concerning his iron. He makes some top notch transformers, including push pull, air-gapped single-ended, and is the leader in Parafeed Cobalt and Permalloy (silver wire as well) outputs. I got involved with him after hearing his DS-025 air-gapped transformer in my amps. Ended up convincing the loon that he needs some web representation since so much DIY activity is now based on the web. HE supplies transformers for Wavelength Audio, Fi, Bottlehead, Wright Sound, LothX, etc. And does a ton of push pull upgrades for old vintage gear, especially the Dynaco. Still, there are MANY great transformer companies around and the older iron is some of the best you can get! Many manufactureres like Audio Note and even ASL, wind their own. OF course, the Audio Note transformers are FAR better than ASL.... and transformer winding by hand is a lost art. As for the motorcycles, what did you race at Daytona??? That is insane! What kind of bikes do you have? I am partial to the older British bikes such as Norton, Triumph, BSA etc. As for the tube amp question, you are right. Like Cornwalls, some of them used different parts during their production run and some years are better than others. Some makes were good all the way through...some had better runs.... It is relative, however. You just have to read up on it and lucky for you, the NET is almost the #1 resource for this info since you have owners and literature (as well as access to books/mags to order). Of course, the ulitmate learning is experience...but the net narrows it down. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mobile homeless: I was an English and Philosophy double major in college... I knew it! your way to make arguments denote it... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 manuel sputters: "I knew it! your way to make arguments denote it... ;-)" I was a major in English.... yet I have no idea what the hell you are saying here. Seems to be some form of code for "the 2A3 must destroy brain matter." kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 Interesting post. Enjoyed it. Not going to match it with this offering but will answer a few questions. Running a gaggle of speakers with a single Dynaco ST-70 is quite a challenge. I can tell you it is a heavy task for this amp but it appears to be holding at the moment. I can tell you that is not what it was made to do and it would surely sound better just dedicated to a pair of speaker...but you would be surprized what those transformers can handle. I will tell you right now, you can rule out a SET amp in handling such a task. It just is not meant to do that job and everything would suffer. I am actually a bit surprised the 70 is doing so well... Just how many sets of speakers are running at once? You make it sound like at leat 3 pairs! It's surely a rugged beast. Personally, I would perhaps opt for a Cornwall only system powered by a SET while using the 70 to run the multiple speakers if you want. In fact, you might have mdeneen check the unit out and maybe get it totally up to shape for a job like that. He might be able to help the unit out and improve the sound to boot. I actually didnt notice that mdeneen lives near you. I would definitely suggest you bringing your Dynaco by if he is willing to take a look. One, he could show you the workings of the amp and explain parts. He could also do some fixing. Having a DIY type nearby is a godsend and you should take advantage of it if he is willing(sounds like he is). You learn SO MUCH MORE this way! Of course, experience is great, but mdeneen could give you many tips. Bring him a fine bottle of red and he might do more than you think! Still, I would try to run one system dedicated to your main speakers while using the backup amp as the powerhouse for the speakerbox. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 02-09-2002 at 06:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 Hi mh, At the time I was riding a Kawasaki ZX-7 (750cc) actually after the race prep it was a bit more than that. My buddies, who didn't race, were raving about Ducati's, old Harleys, Triumphs, etc. I have been a motorcycle nut since I got my first one in '78. Worked in a Harley shop for a little bit while 'finding' myself but realized I have too many hobbies and they require a bit more change. Daytona was awesome - stupidity (or cheapness) led me into a major wreak that caused some damage to various extremities but I came back - not as capable as prior but capable enough. That bike will remain part of me forever and will be passed onto the children when I depart. Regarding tubes, it is your fault I am considering them. Gonna go to an estate auction tomorrow and see what they have. I will jump for joy if I discover some ancient Klipsches but be totally bewildered if I run across some tube amps. Hell, if they are cheap, maybe I make a mistake but maybe I hit one out of the park. We shall see...maybe it is all for naught. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 Clipped- Sorry about the sit-in stuff. Seb said you're not set on the SET set-up. Seriously? Seems a shame. Yours Truly (OOPS, Sincerely), fini (Just trying to shepherd the sibilance for a moonlight Cornwall test) This message has been edited by fini on 02-09-2002 at 06:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted February 9, 2002 Author Share Posted February 9, 2002 fini stated: "(Just trying to shepherd the sibilance for a moonlight Cornwall test)" How did you know I was listening to songresses Cybil Shepherd and Vonda Shepard and comparing Cybil sibilances to Vonda volume in the moonlight. You must be psychic or have the sixth sense of an Austrailian sheep dog. Do you remember the former "Moonlighting" star's nude debut in "The Last Picture Show" mmmmm... mmmmm....mmmmm -bogged down in a ditch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 Yep-she's a wringer! -Petered-out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted February 9, 2002 Author Share Posted February 9, 2002 not to be confused with the one pictured in grandma's peep toy thingie appliance/ could be this thread has petered out also. -wring rang wrung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted February 10, 2002 Author Share Posted February 10, 2002 No, the thread ain't over until we dig out the Kate Smith...and Mama Cass records. I was so distracted with other angst I forgot to respond to mdeneen. For sure! I am open to the experience, at least to set my mind and ears at rest that there is not something seriously wrong with the amp to begin with. Part of why I am here is to find out what I am missing without even knowing it. It is funny how one is capable of not totally trusting one's own perceptions or on the other hand how one can convince oneself of anything. Again the gestalt thinking. Awhile ago I started avoiding hanging out at expensive audio stores because it momentarily made me dissatisfied with what I already had that I had been perfectly happy with. Those kinds of upgrades then were always out of financial reach so I started to not want to be reminded. After springing for the Cornwalls I now want to make them sound about as good as I can within reason. Years ago while mixing an album in the studio the engineer felt it necessary to check the mix on a cheesy player and not just on the great high end studio monitors. The mix was supposed to sound good there as well since some people would be listening to it that way and even digging it in that context. This point popped into my head just now, and I cannot remember why....sort of seemed vaguely relavant. Right. An ongoing musical experience is just as fast becoming an ongoing memory of a musical experience and not all aspects of musical invention depend on experiencing the finer points of audio quality for appreciation. It is even possible to enjoy a memory of a musical experience played back in one's head, .....I think....therefore I hear.....or maybe not...... I will email for details regarding making contact. -over and out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 10, 2002 Share Posted February 10, 2002 Lordy, clippered...and now you're so far gone your cofusing me with mdeneen and mdeneen for me and .... Did you see the post discussing: a. running 5 sets of speakers on ye olde 70 b. running dedicated CW system with SET perhaps C. Taking ole mdeneen up on ST-70 help and learning some of the ropes d. getting rid of the Sonja Henny records.... e. watching the chicken sandwich scene in Five Easy Pieces.... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted February 10, 2002 Author Share Posted February 10, 2002 kh, I have been spaced out, what with spying on eBay bidders and realizing just how many posts are on this forum. Yes, I took you suggestions to heart and think you are right about having maybe the dynaco as the work horse and then perfecting a SET set up with just the Cornwalls, thus enabling me to finally zero in on the finer points of audio listening. From other things you have said, I am also wondering if I shouldn't maybe investigate other old eicos as starting points for the upgrading which could be coached by mdeneen. Maybe he thinks a dynaco-70 is a perfectly good starting point. I did notice that the 22 watt monoblocks you recommended to another on the forum finally went at $500. What do you think about that price? I am still watching the 60 watt eico monoblocks which close today, they represent a much larger investment for that big iron. Then again your great experience with the Welbournes backed up by others who took your lead on that is very tempting and would be something to shoot for (it would involve my getting a digital camera so I can take pictures of all the crap I would have to sell on eBay in order to justify that expenditure). The trick about eBay these days is you really have to be motivated as a buyer to spring for the bid that will actually get something. At this point I am still learning about what is out there and what values (ball park) some of the old classics bring. As for confusing you with mdeneen, I think I have it straight {you are Yoda and he is Obi Wan Kenobi or is it the other way around.....I am having a geezer moment..... oops...someone is knocking at the door....More later. -subbed and supered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 10, 2002 Share Posted February 10, 2002 Right up front, thoe EICO HF-60 monoblocks are worth every penny. Those beasts are SO rare and almost NEVER come up in pairs like this. Somebody is going to be very happy. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 10, 2002 Share Posted February 10, 2002 mdeneen made some valid points here. Yet I think those ACRO T0-330 are VERY good transformers and highly sought after. And unlike mdeneen, I dont think changing the circuit with those EICO is any big deal. But the iron in those beasts is plain excellent. You could make so many insanely good amps with it, or keep it stock. I think even in stock form, they will be quieter and cleaner amps that many of the stuff today. Even stock with some parts updates, these amps would kill a lot of modern tube amps. But, and he has a point here, the price is going to be MUCH higher. but you are essentially buying the great transformers with dedicated power supplies for each channel and som output iron that is damn nice. Still, from the sound of it, I dont think you are willing to pay the 1000-1200 price those will end up going for. I think those EICO HF-22 were the steal at 500 for mdeneen could have used those beasts to make all SORTS of things. I know a guy that made four or five different amps with them, finally settling on 2A3 push pull triode monoblocks. And even stock, I think those amps would be better than any 1000 EL-34 amp around, with some parts mods and some circuit adjustments. But.... you DO have that Dynaco. And perhaps you should just have at it with mdeneen's help if he is nice enough to offer with some ducats. Still, I would consider getting a dedicated system to run the Cornwalls and your most robust amp to handle running all the other sets of speakers. You never mentioned how many pairs were involved. But if running up to four pairs of speakers with an old tube amp...well, that is pushing the envelope. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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