efzauner

You need to run something like Win ISD or bass box on the two sub models and see how they compare. I did use Win ISD Pro to design the sub......

hello From my car audio days it is well known that a sub can take advantage of car cabin gain which adds 12db/octave below the frequency set by the interior dimensions. Does the same hold for a HT room? A room/wavelength of 20 feet corresponds to about 60Hz.. what dimension is the most important? say for a 15 x 17 x 8 foot room? The reason I ask is that most subs do not have flat response down to 20 Hz, but seem to roll off much higher, 30 or 40Hz. Do most sub installations use room gain to fill in the lower octaves? I built a large sub using a 12 inch car sub, with a 20Hz vent resonance. Huge it is, but works great. But could I have made it smaller by tuning to 30Hz and gotten good in room performance? thanks

I have a pair of KLF20s and a pair of KLF C-7s that I was going to use as double centers. But,, I could get my hands on a KLF10 as a center and put the C7s as direct surrounds on left and right rear. Would that work? What about a modified KLF10 with the tweeter in the center of the 2 woofers, andd then place it on its side? Yes this is an extension of my previous D'appolito center made from KG4 or Heresy parts. thanks

Lets be careful here. Resolution and accuracy and precision are 3 different things. Sorry to chime in here, I have 30 years experience in Test and Measurement. Imagine a dart board. Resolution would mean that there are many sectors. The smaller the sector or square the better the resolution. So for an ohm meter this means what is the smallest digit. Precision would mean that when you throw the darts they always land close together. So repeated measurements are always close together. But not necessarily with bullseye accuracy Accuracy means you can throw darts and hit the bullsey. So you can be precise, bunching up the darts but be consistently away from the bullseye. This is like a gun sight that is not adjusted properly, Or a measurement instrument that has a known offset or is not calibrated. You can usually account for this. Low precision often means lots of noise. You can be accurate, with the darts in a circle around the bullseye, but not bunched up. So you can be accurate but not precise or repeatable from measurement to measurement. Normally if you average accurate but imprecise dart shots you should be on the bullseye. So what specification is important for this particular low resistance measurement. Resolution is only part of it. You MUST look at accuracy. the VC480 Precision Milliohm Meter on ebay states: 2 Ω range, resolution is 1 mΩ accuracy is ±(0.5%rdg±3) So for the 2 ohm range, measuring a 1 ohm resistor, with 1 mohm resolution, accuracy is 0,5% of the measurement plus 3 x the resolution. Or 5 plus 3 milliOhms or 8 milliOhms Not bad actually It is accurate and Precise! The Fluke 87V has the following specs Resistance Maximum resistance 50 MΩ Accuracy ±(0.2% + 1) Maximum resolution 0.1 Ω So for a 1 ohm resistor, the accuracy is 102 milliohms not good! Yet it is accurate, but not precise enough. Internal circuits cannot generate clean low currents and measure low voltages well because of noise. You can do others yourself. The reason you need 4 connections (this is called force-sense, or Kelvin connection) is to avoid including in the measurement the voltage drop across the leads that carry the current. So you force a known accurate current through one pair of wires, and measure the voltage across the resistor with a separate sense connection.

while the KLF 10s need repairs on the front baffle, why not make a new baffle that puts the tweeter between the 2 woofers so you can lay it sideways? Would it not make a great center that way?

Heresy's going for under $400 Canadian... like thats $300 US up here.

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ele/5496848013.html

heck if I leave now I can be there Saturday night! , back home in time for Sunday dinner!.. Who needs sleep!

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/london/klipsch-chorus-2-speakers/1148511927

fun read http://sound.westhost.com/cable-z.htm

It occurs to me that if a speaker is set to small, then it's power handling potential is diminished since the voltage heavy frequencies are not being used. If a speaker is capable of 100 watts for frequencies between 50Hz-17KHz, and you don't send much below 80 Hz, and if the signals between 50Hz and 80Hz are 40% of the voltage that would be sent in full signal, then the speaker becomes a 60 watt speaker. Furthermore, if the speaker doesn't get that 50-80Hz signal if you send pink noise, it will not have as high of efficiency characteristics. Doesn't that really lower the max output on top of lowering power handling? That stuff just popped into my head... It really all depends on how the power handling is measured, and what the damage characteristics of the speaker is. Typically woofers will break at low frequencies due to over excursion, and at higher frequencies due to thermal melt. Mids/tweets would be thermal. So it depends what comes first! If during "normal" program material a speaker would be limited by low frequency woofer excursion, then yes, cutting out bass by setting to small would allow the speaker to handle more power at the remaining frequencies and output higher SPL as handled by mid/high frequency drivers. If however the power handling is limited by thermal, then removing the bass will not allow you to drive more power for higher SPL.

Thanks guys.. I guess I will have to wing it! I have KLF-20s mains and dual KLF C7 centers placed below and above the TV, with a AT screen for projector viewing. Because of placement I have to use direct radiating surrounds placed in corners behind the listening position. I found a two Synergy SC-1s for sale at the same time, by different sellers, at reasonable prices. I will probably pick them up as they are local. I am sure more powerful options will appear but these have an angled top/back so it will be an easy install aimed at the listening area. Love to find another pair of C7s but they are rare and pricey. Someone is asking CDN$600 for one.. I paid $200 for the pair. was a very lucky find. I also have lots of KG4 tweeters and Eminence Alpha 8 woofers I could build into a surround. But I am getting tired of building everything. https://web.archive.org/web/20120622021245/http://www.klipsch.com/sc-1-center-speaker

For the minimum, see Page 18: https://www.jblpro.com/pub/cinema/cinedsgn.pdf The old Dolby AC-3 literature suggests full "main channel" capability for the surround / satellites (naturally )....but as practical compromise I'd stick with surrounds that can maintain at least some semblance of timbre matching to the LC&R down to ~400 Hz (the 1st and 2nd harmonics of the male voice). Using distance and delays to compensate for SPL requirements. I've found that 5.1 concerts or specialty 5.1 tracks work the surrounds harder than actual movies, where they typically loaf along the majority of the time. Good Info.. I think I had downloaded that manual a while back. HAHA.. yeah to quote that page: " F. Surround Requirements: As a general rule, the total ensemble of surround loudspeakers should be capable of producing as much acoustical power as a single screen channel. Today, the JBL 8340A surround loudspeaker is capable of producing total acoustical power output in the range of about 2 acoustical watts. Since a typical dual woofer JBL screen loudspeaker is capable of producing continuous acoustic power output of 28 watts, it is clear that 14 of the 8340A’s will be required for power matching. Typically, in a large house, 12 to 16 units will suffi ce. The careful designer should not specify less than this quantity. In smaller houses a similar quantity of 8330A’s may be specifi ed. " apart from the smaller HTIB systems I don't see any HT systems that can output the same SPL on surrounds as for mains!

On selecting surround, I have searched but cant find much info.. How much power is programmed to surrounds vs Fronts and Center? I have seen numbers that the center handles up to 60pct of the front power. What do the surrounds need? There should be some numbers on this from 5.1 program material. thanks

I have a pair with original manual and spec sheet if you need any more info.

so induced noise is also proportional to how long they are coupled... so yes, you must bundle them together to put thru the hole, but then spread them apart! Also, most speaker wire intended for in wall is already twisted.

Working on them... niece and her hubby where visiting... he seems to want to get into turntables and tubes...I may just buy the set for them.

Any way you can keep the audio cables and speaker cables on one side of the cavity away from the others? May I suggest you use high quality audio cables, once installed. they will be there for ever. 1/8 plugs are not that long lived, get cable so you can easily change connectors if needed. Also don't use simple zip cord. Use speaker wire that is intended for in wall installation.

Why? Actually, every Klipsch has its place. The three that you mentioned will all sound great. Just because I can! soon... HT room under construction. Lots of gear purchased...

Thanks JW and MS...for your encouragement... I will be able to compare the KLF20s to Heresys and Tangent 400s.

Damns... and I just got a pair of KLF-20s. I would have driven down for these.. my niece lives there.

expensive yes, but what sort of scam are you thinking of? Anyone looking for these does not need a description. we know what they are. no pics keep the tire kickers away.

http://westernmass.craigslist.org/hsh/5467722981.html

yeah sure. makes perfect sense... replace a big pot lamp with a led light, speaker (cuz you already have a power source!) and an IR or wireless receiver and voila... other manufacturers may have them too.

almost 2Gs for some fabric and aluminum...something very wrong here...compare that to 2G of HT receiver, or speakers.