Travis In Austin

Johnny, The teles look different on the inside, i.e., the guts are different. The problem is you don't have controls that you can compare them to. Do you have a camera that will allow you to take photos of what you have? If you can post them, we can tell you which is which. Travis

Mas, You may be an expert in sound mixing, but you are no expert in what opportunity the US had to see Tull before TAAB. One does not have anything to do with the other. If you had been on tour with them in 1971 you would have known all of the places they played, and to what crowds, but you obviously were not. As much as you want to try and talk about other issues like venues, etc., the facts about this discussion are these: Coytee says: Upshot, I was greatly let down. I think the rest of the crowd was too. About the only thing of his "old" stuff was a medley they did. Now, had they done the SAME songs in whole, I think the entire concert would have been different. You respond in your typical condecending, know-it-all tone: I am guessing that you are still listening to InAGaddaDaVida and Whole Lotta Love at least 4 times each, everyday...right??????? (If so, that may explain allot!)"TYPE=PICT;ALT=Stickouttongue" You really can't fault them for getting just abit burned out on it as well, despite someone who listens to them once every 3 years and who thinks they have all been dead for 20 years wanting to hear it! Oh, and to borrow a phrase..."Which one is Jethro? Isn't he the guy who plays flute?...." "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Confused"But in fairness, I also understand what you mean... OB then comments on Gary’s going to see them, and adds his opinion about TAAB: "Thick as a Brick" was a major disappointment to me, expected better than that, all the hype !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then you come up with this, as the introduction to your response: But the Thick as a Brick tour was the first time (and opportunity) for MOST Americans to even see them. I responded very simply thus: They did full US tours in 69, 70 and 71. In '69 they played with bands like Spirt, Mountain, even Led Zeppelin when they both backed up Vanilla Fudge. Living in the Past was actually recorded in the US (Orange, New Jersey) while they were on tour. By '71 Tull was the headliner, with Yes playing backup, and they were filling venues like the LA Forum. There was plenty of opportunity for people to see Tull long before '72. Travis I knew from memory that Tull had toured big time in 1971 because of a band they had played with. I knew they also toured in '69 and '70 I was simply stating that they were playing places like the LA forum with Yes and that was a bit more then the first time for "Most Americans to see them." I guess you then go to your book or website and pull up their tour history and say, "oh no, they did do a bit of touring that year, and prior years, I better qualify my statement" by saying Prior to this the shows were primarily small venues (and LOTS of roller rinks!) primarily on the coasts (Boston, NYC, Seattle, Pasadena), in addition to Detroit and Chicago (quite a few shows with Blood, Sweat and Tears.). It wasn't until the The Thick as Brick tour, that a pattern contiunued for several years of playing the large university arenas and cites in a more diverse and widely distributed market. 1970 saw shows on the West coast (read California) and NYC, with a few scattered in AZ, TX, St. Louis, a few in Detroit and a few more on the East Coast, primarily in NYC. And more shows were spent primarily with folks like John Sebastian, Ballin' Jack, Clouds, Mott the Hoople and Lee Michaels. 1971 in the US was spent primarily on the East Coast and in California until Clive Bunker split. And again, the majority of shows were being performed in odd markets dominated by the inevitable Roller Rinks! The summer of '71 had a stint of shows with Yes and still more roller rinks with a smattering of a few larger venues mostly in the fall of '71 with a few more Civic Colliseums and University fieldhouses as I guess the Roller Rinks must have been booked with birthday parties. The way you were bouncing back and forth, from "first opportunity for most Americans to see them" to they were just appearing at East and West Coast locations and roller rinks. Based on you going back and forth I figured you were just digging it up from a web site as you went along. I also point out that they were playing the Fillmore East and West. I then posted one of a dozen Tull websites where all of their tour information can be found so folks can draw their own conclusions, and get the information as easily as you. You then respond by saying: I never said that Thick as a Brick was the first time for anyone in the US to see them. Learn to read! It was a major change in both the touring block bookings featuring a widespread US exposure in areas other than the coasts and Detroit and it was the first tour booked primarily into large venues. For all of the hype and mysticism associated with the Fillmores, the Warehouse, Winterland, etc. they were still small format venues!. You, as per usual with you, throw a red herring into the mix by talkinng about the mysticism of the Fillmores, etc. instead of acknowledging that there may have been more opportunity for people in the U.S. to see Tull prior to TAAB. (There is a reason there is hype and mysticism associated with those venues by the way, something you will never understand). I then post, from the website, where they in fact toured that year. I guess you were not aware of all of the cities they covered (in addition to the coasts and Detroit) because you missed the bus, or they told you that the tour was over so they did not have to listen to you any more, or you tried to tell Ian how to play flute and they showed you out the door. But whatever, folks are aware of those venues, they know what they hold, they know where they are located, and they know for a fact that Tull was not limited to roller rinks, primarily on the coasts. I am sure you know things about Tull and other bands I will never know, as well as sound mixing etc. But you were apparently not on tour with them in '69, '70 or '71, because there was a lot of opportunity for a lot of Americans to see Tull before you got on board. The fact that you may have been at every show for TAAB will not change that. Travis

Apparently not much. You said that until TAAB was the first opportunity for most of the US to see them. Then you backtracked by saying what you meant by that was up 'till that point they were only on the West Coast (read California), East Coast and Det., and it was not until TAAB that they played major venues and the american hearland. Then tour history shows you were wrong again, in just the prior year they played all over the US. Now, because you have some backstage passes from Hot Tuna and Bette Middler you are some sort of expert on Jethro Tull. Did you work security, help carry cable around, or did you stir the chili at the back stage buffet? You still are dead wrong about how much they toured and where they toured before TAAB came out. Travis

I would say that you are more in need of one then me. Texas, Fla., etc., etc. You are right, not much of the country had an opportunity to see them before TAAB came out. Keep going, I'm loving it. You don't need a scanner, what concerts did you go to? Travis

Well lets look at the year prior shall we (this is a great web site) 1/4/71 Tyrone Guthrie Theatre Minneapolis, Mn. USA Two shows. 2/4/71 Civic Opera House Chicago, Il. USA It's Only Me Nothing Is Easy, Aqualung, Hymn 43, My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée), Cross-Eyed Mary, With You There To Help Me, By Kind Permission Of..., Wind Up/Guitar Solo/Locomotive Breath, Hard-Headed English General, Wind-Up (reprise) 3/4/71 Kiel Convention Hall St Louis, Mo. USA Support: Procol Harum. 4/4/71 Painter's Mill Music Fair Baltimore, Md. USA Two shows booked, and sold-out, but Ian's voice failed after the first, causing the cancelation of the second – after the audience had already taken their seats. 5/4/71 Fillmore East NYC, NY. USA Two shows Support: Edgar Winter's White Trash Band, Tin House This setlist might be from 6/4/71. My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée), With You There To Help Me, By Kind Permission Of..., Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, Aqualung, Cross-Eyed Mary, Nothing Is Easy, Wind Up/Guitar Solo/Locomotive Breath, Hard-Headed English General, Wind-Up (reprise) Italicised tracks unconfirmed. 6/4/71 Fillmore East NYC, NY. USA Two shows Support: Edgar Winter's White Trash Band, Tin House 13/4/71 Municipal Auditorium Atlanta, Ga. USA 14/4/71 Uhlein Hall Milwaukee, Wi. USA Two shows. Support: Curved Air. 16/4/71 Pirates World Park Dania (Ft. Lauderdale), Fl. USA 17/4/71 Pirates World Park Dania (Ft. Lauderdale), Fl. USA Support: Curved Air. 18/4/71 Civic Center Roanoke, Va. USA 20/4/71 State Fairgrounds Coliseum Detroit, Mi. USA Support: Edgar Winter's White Trash Band, Mutzie. 24/4/71 Monmouth College West Long Branch, NJ. USA Nothing Is Easy, Aqualung, With You There To Help Me, By Kind Permission Of..., Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée), Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Wind Up, Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath, Instrumental, Wind-Up (reprise) 25/4/71 State University of NY Stony Brook, NY. USA 26/4/71 C.W.Post College Dome Greenvale, NY. USA 27/4/71 Capitol Theatre Port Chester, NY. USA Two shows Support: Curved Air. Late show: Nothing Is Easy, Aqualung, With You There To Help Me, My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée), Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Wind Up/Guitar Solo/Locomotive Breath, Hard-Headed English General, Wind-Up (reprise) Italicised tracks unconfirmed. 28?/4/71 Nassau Community College Garden City, NY. USA Date uncertain. Support band (Edgar Winter White Trash Band) was late, so Tull played first. 29/4/71 State U. of NY Delhi, NY. USA Venue uncertain. 1/5/71 Spectrum Philadelphia, Pa. USA Support: Tony Joe White & Spirit Nothing Is Easy, Aqualung, With You There To Help Me/By Kind Permission Of..., Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, My God, Cross-Eyed Mary, Wind Up/Guitar Solo/Locomotive Breath, Hard-Headed English General, Wind-Up (reprise) 2/5/71 Kutztown University Kutztown, Pa. USA 3/5/71 US release of 'Aqualung' Highest chart position: 7 4/5/71 Fillmore East NYC, NY. USA Two shows Nothing Is Easy, Aqualung, With You There To Help Me, By Kind Permission Of..., Hymn 43, My God (w. flute solo, incl. Camptown Races & Bourée), Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Wind Up, Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath, Instrumental, Wind-Up (reprise) 5/5/71 Fillmore East NYC, NY. USA Hymn 43 Two shows Clive Bunker's last (scheduled) concert as a member of Tull. Nothing Is Easy, Aqualung, With You There To Help Me, Hymn 43, My God, Cross-Eyed Mary, Wind Up, Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath ?/5/71 Music Hall Boston, Ma. USA Support: Mott The Hoople Date unconfirmed. Known MTH tour dates mean it must have been between 6 & 11 May. Asked in 2003, MTH drummer Dale Griffin didn't remember this show, but acknowledged it as credible. /6/71 Salt Palace Salt Lake City, Ut. USA Barrie Barlow's first gig with Tull. Apart from Martin, this reproduced the 1963 line-up of 'The Blades'. 10/6/71 Red Rocks Amphitheatre Morrison (Denver), Co. USA The Red Rocks riot, at which Tull played through tear gas. A full account from the LA Free Press. Barrie Barlow's second gig with Tull! Support: Livingston Taylor. Tull played for 80 mins., to over 10,000 people. 11/6/71 Civic Auditorium Albuquerque, NM. USA Support: Mott The Hoople. 12/6/71 HIC Arena Honolulu, Hi. USA 16/6/71 Convention Center San Diego, Ca. USA My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée), With You There To Help Me/By Kind Permission Of..., Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, To Cry You A Song, Aqualung, Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Nothing Is Easy, Wind-Up, Locomotive Breath, Hard-Headed English General, Wind-Up (reprise) 17/6/71 Community Concourse San Diego, Ca. USA Support: Livingston Taylor 18/6/71 LA Forum Inglewood, Ca. USA My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée), With You There To Help Me/By Kind Permission Of..., Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, Nothing Is Easy, To Cry You A Song, Aqualung, Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Wind-Up/Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath, Hard-Headed English General, Wind-Up (reprise) Italicised tracks unconfirmed. 19/6/71 Convention Center Anaheim, Ca. USA Support: Livingston Taylor My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée), With You There To Help Me/By Kind Permission Of..., Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, To Cry You A Song, Aqualung, Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Nothing Is Easy, Wind-Up, Locomotive Breath,Hard-Headed English General, Wind-Up (reprise) Italicised tracks unconfirmed. 20/6/71 Community Theater Berkeley, Ca. USA Wind Up Support: Livingston Taylor My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée), With You There To Help Me/By Kind Permission Of..., Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, To Cry You A Song, Aqualung, Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Nothing Is Easy, Wind-Up (15 min), Locomotive Breath, Hard-Headed English General, Wind-Up (reprise) Italicised tracks unconfirmed. 21/6/71 - San Francisco, Ca. USA Nominally a rest day, Ian spent it doing press and radio interviews. 24/6/71 Gardens Edmonton, Canada Support: Yes. 25/6/71 Pacific National Exhibition Coliseum Vancouver, Canada Support: Yes. 26/6/71 Seattle Center Coliseum Seattle, Wa. USA Support: Yes. 27/6/71 Memorial Auditorium Sacramento, Ca. USA Support: Kimberley, Yes. 29/6/71 Auditorium Kansas City, Mo. USA Without Yes. 30/6/71 State Fairgrounds Oklahoma City, Ok. USA Support: Yes. 1/7/71 Municipal Auditorium San Antonio, Tx. USA Support: Yes. 2/7/71 Memorial Coliseum Dallas, Tx. USA Wind Up In Dallas or Dallas Memorial 1971 Support: Yes. My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée), With You There To Help Me, Piano Solo, Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, To Cry You A Song, Aqualung, Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Nothing Is Easy, Wind Up/Guitar Solo/Locomotive Breath, Hard-Headed English General, Wind-Up (reprise) Italicised tracks presumed, but unconfirmed; they're not on these bootlegs, anyway. 3/7/71 Sam Houston Coliseum Houston, Tx. USA Support: Yes. 4/7/71 Warehouse New Orleans, La. USA Support: Yes (who played for 30-45 mins.). 5/7/71 National Guard Armory Indianapolis, In. USA Without Yes. 7/7/71 Sports Stadium Orlando, Fl. USA Support: Yes. 8/7/71 Casino Ballroom Hampton Beach, NH. USA Support: Yes. Riots due to oversold tickets led to the closure of the venue for five years. 9/7/71 Convention Center Wildwood, NJ. USA Support: Yes. 10/7/71 Convention Center Ashbury Park, NJ. USA Without Yes. 11/7/71 Roller Rink Alexandria, Va. USA 3 pm show, supported by Yes. 14/7/71 Fox Theatre Hackensack, NJ. USA Set began with 'My God'. Fall '71 US tour - their eleventh N.American tour 15/10/71 Bayfront Center St Petersburg, Fl. USA Support: Freedom (at 8 pm; Tull at 9). Audience: 10,000. Tull's sound equipment was accidentally sent to Miami; the soundcheck was with rented equipment. Set began with 'My God' 16/10/71 Civic Center Jacksonville, Fl. USA 17/10/71 Coliseum Charlotte, NC. USA 18/10/71 Madison Square Garden NYC, NY. USA The first of Tull's eighteen dates at this venue. Sold-out three weeks before the concert. Audience: 23,000. Several tried to invade the stage. My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée, God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, Thick As A Brick (Poet & Painter), Aqualung, With You There To Help Me, A New Day Yesterday, Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Up To Me, Tomorrow Was Today, Hymn 43, Nothing Is Easy, Wind-Up, Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath, Wind-Up (reprise) Italicised tracks unconfirmed. 19/10/71 Civic Center Springfield, Ma. USA USA The tour schedule has this as Gill Coliseum, Corvallis, Or., but NYC to Ma. via Or. seems rather unlikely! That show must have been in June, if at all. A recording exists of Tull at Springfield, apparently on 16/10. That date is wrong, but could well have been 19/10. Support: Curved Air. My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée, God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen), Thick As A Brick, Aqualung, Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, To Cry You A Song, A New Day Yesterday, Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Up To Me, Tomorrow Was Today, Hymn 43, Nothing Is Easy, Wind-Up, Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath, Wind-Up (reprise) 'Sossity/Reasons...' unconfirmed. 21/10/71 Civic Arena Pittsburgh, Pa. USA 22/10/71 Jenison Fieldhouse, MSU East Lansing, Mi. USA Support: Catfish Included: Flute Solo (In 'My God'?), Drum Solo (in 'Cross-Eyed Mary'?), Sossity: You're A Woman/Reasons For Waiting, A Song For Jeffrey (this seems unlikely: no other 1971 show included it.). 23/10/71 St. John Arena Columbus, Oh. USA 24/10/71 Hara Arena Dayton, Oh. USA 25/10/71 Sports Arena Toledo, Oh. USA 26/10/71 Amphitheater Chicago, Il. USA 27/10/71 Assembly Hall, U. of Illinois Champaign, Il. USA My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée, God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen), Thick As A Brick, Aqualung, To Cry You A Song, A New Day Yesterday, Cross-Eyed Mary (w. drum solo), Up To Me, Tomorrow Was Today, Hymn 43, Nothing Is Easy, Wind-Up, Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath, Wind-Up (reprise) 28/10/71 Arena New Haven, Ct. USA My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée, God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen), Thick As A Brick, Aqualung, To Cry You A Song, A New Day Yesterday, Cross-Eyed Mary, Up To Me, Tomorrow Was Today, Hymn 43, Nothing Is Easy, Wind-Up, Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath, Wind-Up (reprise) 29/10/71 Exposition Center Portland, Me. USA 30/10/71 War Memorial Rochester, NY. USA 31/10/71 Harper College Binghamton, NY. USA Venue uncertain. 1/11/71 Memorial Auditorium Buffalo, NY. USA 3/11/71 Technological Institute Lowell, Ma. USA This concert seems to have been scheduled for 20/10/71, but an audience member with a ticket stub proves otherwise. 5/11/71 William & Mary College Fieldhouse Williamsburg, Va. USA 6/11/71 Carmichael Auditorium, U. of NC Chapel Hill, NC. USA Tull were late on stage. This, and poor crowd control, meant that when Tull started their sound check, people at the back inadvertently crowded those at the front, and someone was accidently pushed through a plate glass window Support band included a violinist and may have been called 'Liege And Lief'. 7/11/71 Minges Coliseum, E. Carolina U. Greenville, NC. USA 8/11/71 Coliseum Greensboro, NC. USA 9/11/71 Field House, Bradley U. Peoria, Il. USA Support: Curved Air. Not noted in tour schedules, but an audience member recalls a show in Peoria. This date is credible, though the resulting tour routing seems a little convoluted. 10/11/71 IMA Sports Arena Flint, Mi. USA 11/11/71 Mid-South Coliseum Memphis, Tn. USA 12/11/71 Convention Center Louisville, Ky. USA Support: Curved Air. 13/11/71 Public Hall Cleveland, Oh. USA 14/11/71 Civic Center Baltimore, Md. USA Support: Curved Air. Tour schedules put this show in the Palace Theatre, Albany, NY. but an audience member with a ticket stub says otherwise! See 16/11/71. 15/11/71 Garden Boston, Ma. USA Support: Curved Air My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée, God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, Thick As A Brick, Aqualung, To Cry You A Song, A New Day Yesterday, Cross-Eyed Mary, Up To Me, Tomorrow Was Today, Hymn 43, Nothing Is Easy, Wind-Up, Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath, Wind-Up (reprise) 16/11/71 Palace Theatre Albany, NY. USA Exact date unconfirmed. The official tour schedule lists Tull as being here on 14/11/71, but they were known to be in Boston that night. A recording entitled 'Albany '71' exists, and there is a gap in the official schedule between 15 and 18 Nov., so this date or 17/11 seem credible. My God (w. flute solo, incl. Bourée, God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, Thick As A Brick, Aqualung, To Cry You A Song, A New Day Yesterday, Cross-Eyed Mary, Up To Me, Tomorrow Was Today, Hymn 43, Nothing Is Easy, Wind-Up, Guitar Solo, Locomotive Breath, Wind-Up (reprise) Italicised tracks unconfirmed. 18/11/71 Madison Square Garden NYC, NY. USA Mas, I stand corrected, you were right. It for sure was very limited tour, East and West (read California) Coasts and Det. They were limited to just roller rinks and overrated places like The Filmores, Madison Square Garden.

I can read, and your quote more then suggests that did very little touring in the US prior to TAAB. You were flat wrong about it, now you want to back track and say that what you meant is that they were not a major touring act prior to that lp's release. Travis

Gary, Be careful, the expert will pull it out of a book and tell you everything you want to know aboutwhich lp was being released. Heck, he probably knows the Zebra's name, and what it ate. Well anyway, here is the info from the site I posted above, nothing about the Zebra but it says Too Old . . . came out during that tour. 16/5/76 Hallenstadion Zürich, Switzerland It's A Boy! Thick As A Brick, Too Old To Rock'N'Roll, To Cry You A Song, A New Day Yesterday (w. flute solo, incl. God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, Bourée, Living In The Past/Thick As A Brick (inst.)), Requiem, Big Dipper, Beethoven's Ninth, The Chequered Flag, Crazed Institution, Conundrum, Cross-Eyed Mary, Aqualung, Guitar Solo, Wind-Up, Back-Door Angels, Minstrel In The Gallery (inst.), Locomotive Breath/Back-Door Angels (reprise) 17/5/76 US release of 'Too Old To Rock'N'Roll...' Highest chart position: 14 18/5/76 Pabellon del Juventud de Badalona Barcelona, Spain Support: John Miles. 20/5/76 Pabellon Deportivo Madrid, Spain 15/7/76 Civic Center Providence, RI. USA 16/7/76 Colt Park Hartford, Ct. USA Support: J. Geils Band. Outdoor show, with heavy rain during the support set (Tull played in sunshine). One of the first uses of 'Tull-avision'. 18/7/76 Capital Center Landover, Md. USA 19/7/76 Spectrum Philadelphia, Pa. USA Support: John Miles. Thick As A Brick, Wond'ring Aloud, Crazed Institution, Conundrum, To Cry You A Song, A New Day Yesterday, My God (w. flute solo, incl. God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, Bourée), Living In The Past/A New Day Yesterday (reprise), Too Old To Rock'N'Roll..., Minstrel In The Gallery, Beethoven's Ninth, My God (intro)/Flute Solo, Cross-Eyed Mary, Aqualung, Encore: Guitar Solo/Wind-Up/Back-Door Angels/Wind-Up(reprise), Second encore: Locomotive Breath/Back-Door Angels (reprise) In some doubt; may have been the same as 21/7, instead. 'Conundrum' unconfirmed. 21/7/76 Garden Boston, Ma. USA Triumph In The Gardens! Support: Livingston Taylor. Thick As A Brick, Wond'ring Aloud, Crazed Institution, Conundrum, To Cry You A Song, A New Day Yesterday (w. flute solo, (incl. God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, Bourée), Living In The Past/Thick As A Brick (inst.)), Too Old To Rock'N'Roll..., Minstrel In The Gallery, Beethoven's Ninth, My God, Cross-Eyed Mary, Aqualung, Encore: Guitar Solo/Wind-Up/Back-Door Angels/Instrumental/Wind-Up(reprise), Second encore: Locomotive Breath/Dambuster's March/Back-Door Angels (reprise) Italicised tracks unconfirmed; running order may be incorrect. 23/7/76 Shea Stadium Flushing, NY. USA

I just found this website, it gives a pretty complete history of JT's tour history, complete with set lists. http://www.ministry-of-information.co.uk/setlist/index.htm Now everyone can be an expert just like Mas [:S]

Mas, You have, for the first time, utterly convincend me that you don't know a thing you are talking about. What book did you pull this nonsense from? What website? The SONG, living in the past was recorded in a studio while on tour in the US, everyone knows the lp is a mix of live and studio stuff from various times, locations, etc. I figured that based on the expertise that you were attempting to convey you would know that song was recorded in a studio in New Jersey in the midst of thier US tour. The point was that they were in fact in the US long before they started playing songs from TAAB while on tour. Their tours, every show, nearly every set list, are available on the web, so is that where you go to sound like you know what you are talking about here? Did you ever go to one of their shows in the '70's? Have you been to one of their shows ever? You said that TAAB Tour was the first time people in the US had an opportunity to see them. That is just flat wrong. Those little "roller rinks" on the East and West coast JT played have names-- like the Fillmore West and the Fillmore East. Have you ever been to either one of them? A band didn't play in either of those long lost temples unless you were someone. The fact is that they were seen by a lot of people well before TAAB. They were touring with the likes of The Dead, Yes, Butterfield Blues Band, etc., etc. before TAAB. Were they as big as they were ever going to get? Of course not, but that is not what you said. You are trying to come off as some expert that has been to all of these Tull shows, over all of these years, and saying they didn't tour, or hardly at all, before TAAB came out. You don't play the LA forum with Yes as your opening act unless you can draw a crowd, I can assure you. Is your point that you meant to say that their first Big/Major/Stadium tour was with TAAB? While one could argue about that point I suppose, one thing for certain is there was plenty of time for a lot of people to see them in the US by the time TAAB had come out. Travis

"All the hype? The Passion Play tour, maybe... But the Thick as a Brick tour was the first time (and opportunity) for MOST Americans to even see them. " Why would that be? They did full US tours in 69, 70 and 71. In '69 they played with bands like Spirt, Mountain, even Led Zeppelin when they both backed up Vanilla Fudge. Living in the Past was actually recorded in the US (Orange, New Jersey) while they were on tour. By '71 Tull was the headliner, with Yes playing backup, and they were filling venues like the LA Forum. There was plenty of opportunity for people to see Tull long before '72. Travis

When Gary said that he had obtained the Chantix prescription I looked at their website and saw that the success rate was way above using gum/patches etc. I called my Dr. and asked for a RX which they called in. My insurance did not cover it, and it is expensive, I think about $150 for the initial 4 week package, but Gary was reporting some good results so I went ahead and got it. As Gary reported at the beginning of this thread, you take it for a week and then quit at the end of one week. My last cig was 6/22 and I have not had a single puff. The cravings are greatly diminished with the Chantix, I cannot reccomend it enough. Gary and I talked about quitting a year ago and agreed we both needed to do it, and would figure out when. Then someone started this thread, (I have to go back to look and then thank them) and then I saw Gary and his wife were getting the Chantix, and then others like Amy, OB, etc., shared their experiences doing it and that good enough motivation for me. Of course Oscar's vivid accounts of what cigs do was also good motivation (I'm afraid to go back and read them). Thanks to all, if it were not for the original post I would not have joined the bandwagon and quit, I am sure of that. It is much easier to do when you know you are in it with others, and that it can be done. For those that did it without Chantix, my hats off to you, I could not have done it without it. Travis Travis

So has anyone checked yet? Have they confirmed that there will be Pallidum's there to LISTEN to. They had mockups in Denver for the show in September. I was getting ready to fly there to hear them but thankfully Amy told me that they would just be mockups. As pretty as they are to look at, I don't think I would be to happy just being able to look at them. I have heard that the production drivers are ready to go, and that there is a pair with those production drivers installed that sounds absolutely incredible, on McIntosh SS equipment no less. So while things are getting close for an actual listen, I woud suggest you call and get confirmation before going any great distance to look/listen to these. Travis

A reader of my site tipped me off about this, but my contacts at Klipsch were very skeptical. Carefully reading the info on their website, they say a "preview of the line" or something like that, so it may not mean an actual listening session. They have not returned my request for comment. Why were the Klipsch folks skeptical? Travis

Mine paid, Jags

Of course to do it right you have to bring in a dedicated line from the street. Then you need to sink a dedicated copper rod (6' long right?) into the ground so the dedicated circuit has a dedicated ground. Of course, when you still have hum, trying a cheater plug is a good start. [] I read the article and thought it was very good. What I took from the grounding discussion is that if, a big if, the insulation should become frayed, the breaker is not going to operate like it should if you have not grounded it. They are going to get a shock if they grab the lamp. Some of the items listed as having two prong plugs have their own breakers, fuses, etc. The other thing that has come along is GFI circuits. The first time I saw this is in a home I built in the 80's. They were in each bath, and two of the bathrooms were ganged on one GFI circuit. In our house now there are 8 seperate circuits. Kitchen, garage, each bathroom has a circuit, and the outside outlets are on a circuit. I do know that when I had my 2 prong MX110 preamp you could pick up a slight buzz/jolt/shock when switching interconnect on the back if you were not careful. I have not had that happen with a three prong preamp.

Mike, Colored vinyl is a different thing then a picture disk. I don't know about the quality of a picture disk being deminished, but it would make sense that in order to get the clarity of the picture you would have to compromise on the pressing of the grooves. However, with color in vinyl there is no difference because of color. All lp's have color added, it is just that most of them are black. The vinyl to make lp's is clear. When lp's were first introduced by Columbia in the late 40's they came out in different colors. Red for Classical, etc. I don't own a single picture disk so I can't say anything about that quality, but I own a lot of colored vinyl (other then black) and can tell you there is no difference. I had always heard that the picture disks were done for collectability, not sound, so I never went for any. The difference in your Pet Sounds lp is going to come from some other factor unrelated to color. Travis

Cool, We can tear those down and use 'em to build the barn. Travis

Straight up or against the spread? I took these, against the spread: Raiders, Cowboys, Texans, Browns, Packers, Eagles, Colts, Bengals, Packers, Giants, Jets, Jags, Bucs, Seahawks, Rams, Titans I don't think there are any locks this week. I feel the best about the Jags giving 2.5 against the Chargers. We shall see, Travis

This is what I am talking about, but I have seen figures that show the percentage of the lp where there is zero tracking error with a 12" arm: "Those who know and love SME tonearms and turntables, and who know something of the company's history, will recall that the company has been making 12" versions of their tonearms ever since they shifted from making scale models to making tonearms. On the most basic level, the extra 3" provided one thing: a reduction in tracking error. The arc described by a cartridge mounted in a 12" arm is closer to the theoretically ideal straight line than anything possible with a 9" arm. Simple geometry; no PhD required. But, as users of 12" arms have always known, the mass added by increasing an arm's length from 9" to 12" is simply too much for most cartridges. The classic 12" armsthe Ortofons, and SME's own 3012, M2-12, and 312, etc.have all suffered from this to varying degrees, and have worked best with, primarily, cartridges of low compliance. This was fine with certain moving-coil cartridges, but clearly, any sense of universality with cartridges of more normal compliance was compromised. Even SME's Model 312, with its aluminum armtube, was much heavier than company founder Alastair Robertson-Aikman wanted. But the allure of a 12" arm was too strong to deter Robertson-Aikman. He extended the magnesium barrel of an SME Series V arm to 12", along with careful sleeving, superb pressure fitting, the right touch of adhesive, and that inimitable SME finish. The result is the SME Model 312S, which probably has the lowest mass of any 12" arm ever made. It can be used with cartridges in the normal weight range of 6-15gm, and with compliances not deemed too low or too high by most makers. " Travis

Larry, Thanks for those, I will give them a look. I was looking more for info on the reduced tracking error the longer the tonearm is. The reason for having longer arms is that the amount of error is reduced for a larger percentage of the LP. Travis

Who has the stats on what percentage of the lp there is tracking error with arms of 8, 10 and 12" tonearms? I believe there is near zero tracking error over 85% of an lp with a 12" arm, but I cannot located the article I found on this that discusses he curves, etc. Anyone who has it or a link I would really appreciate it. Travis

Hugs to all, Hugs to my temp. Texan bro. Mike Lindsay, hug hug hug hug. Travis

Joe, What cartridge to you plan on running with it? I have talked with Max about this some, and the cartridge has to mate well with the arm, and if has to be of sufficient quality to get the benefits of that incredible arm. Travis

Ya know Colter... you just brought back a nice memory of an old neighbor of mine. I use to live in a duplex in a college town (Maryville). The lady next to me was a retired teacher and was the first resident of this building that was built something like 1945. She married and a year later, her husband died. She lived here her entire life after that. Knowing how transient college neighborhoods might be, I told my wife that we weren't moving until Lois passed away as I didn't want her to have some yahoo punks living next to her when I was more than willing to stay there and in a sense... look out for her. OK... brings me to the memory... She was in her 80's and just sweet as the dickens. She knew just about everyone in town as she was a teacher and lived there her whole life. Seems... her minister (amongs others at times) would come by her place on a regular basis. IN the last couple years of her life, she didn't get out anymore so they came to her. None the less... her minsiter was yacking with her, saw a bowl of peanuts and had a couple. He had another handful. By the time he finished visiting her, seems he'd eaten the entire bowl of peanuts. He realized what he had done and was embarrased that he'd eaten all of her peanuts. "Oh... Lois, look what I've done...I've eaten your entire bowl of peanuts.... I feel bad, but don't worry... I'll buy you some more" To which she responded... "(laughing) Oh, Pastor, don't worry about that... I've already sucked all the chocolate off them.." [:|] [+o(] Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION

Marty, How is that R2R player working out for you? Email me your shipping address, I have some things to send you. Travis