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---------------- On 3/28/2005 12:27:23 AM Rdmarsiii wrote: Thanks for all the comments! So Klispch is the actual manufacturer of the drivers? I love the Heresy's to death. Its the best investment I've ever made. I dont want to offend any one, but I really prefer the sound of the Heresy's to the RF-7's and the like. Yeah, they sound good, but I just wasnt really impressed. But yeah, Im not sure If I could get any happier. Well, I bet I could if I got a new amp and all that, but Im happy for now Thanks! ---------------- Did not mean to leave the impression that Klipsch actually made the drivers. K77 tweeters are a selected lot of Electrovoice T35 units. Some said recently that current K77s have been 're-sourced' which indicates a different manufacturer. That I don't know about. The K55 series are Atlas drivers. I know that Eminence, CTS and others have made woofers for Klipsch Heritage but I am not sure about the ancestry of the K22, Bob Crites probably can tell you. Most companies buy their drivers from other sources (these days, primarly Chinese) and label them with their own part numbers. The correct practice is to give the source a Specification/Source Control Drawing (SCD) and enforce the requirements via the contract. What was said in the thread about grading tweeters is true of any-well run high-end manufacturer, they will test the entire lot for conformance to the spec prior to release to manufacturing. Mnay US firms have been burned by accepting out-sourced parts without testing, only to find that the source has pulled switcheroos on materials without bothering to tell the customer.

The K stands for Klipsch.

http://homepage.mac.com/dwg2/FileSharing4.html versions for Mac and PC

That shipping estimate for the second set is kinda steep, though

...I added a new McIntosh preamp to my system and now I have a bad driver in one of my speakers, it's blown!... Ummm...you may need to look at the preamp if you suspect it was the cause of the damage. Unless the damage was caused by an RCA connector being plugged in or pulled out under power (ouch), you need to have a tech look at the preamp to make sure it is not sourcing DC in that channel, which, if the power amp is capable of passing DC (and many solid state amps are) could explain the damage to the voice coil of the woofer.

a whole generation has been mis-educated to think that the sound system should be invisible. I love my four Corns but I have the space for them and a spouse who adores the results. Not every spouse wants four boxes that size. Klipsch tried to revamp the Corn (was it the Chorus?) in a slimmer package and you'll notice its no longer in the product line. The HT crowd is running the show, folks, and the people who will pony up $20K or more for a custom HT room want speakers that are invisible. Corns can be built in (as can Klipsch Cinema models) but HT installers will steer customers to purpose-built HT systems, unless the customers demand other wise. Klispch got into HT late and is just now making an impact in the market with some me-too products with horn tweeters.

The classic definition of a tapered array is an array of identical drivers, operated in the following manner. By using absorptive material, or by network(s), only the center driver transmits (or in the case of the network-based approach, receives) high frequencies. Some tapered arrays route mid-freqencies to the drivers above and below the "tweeter" thereby creating a sort-of MTM arrangement. The advantage of this is that the line array shrinks with frequency, reducing lobing effects. This concept is hardly new, it's been around for at least 50 years! I'm not sure approaches using just three different drivers qualify as an array of anything. B&O used a "2 and a half" approach years ago to fill in the notch between the woofer and the mid. It was an interesting idea, but with more recent thinking, i.e. MTMs using Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/octave networks, it was a technological dead end.

when I picked up this brochure new(so long ago) I thought that Paul was "sending" a rainbow and the other guy was "receiving" it.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablpowr&1114793483 "Electra Glide Ultra Khan Statement II revised/revelation" Let's See, Harley Davidson, Star Trek AND Biblical imagery all in one name... Why not "Ultra Righteous Vision Orgasmic Arising From The Loutus Belch Mark 29 and 1/2" ? ROFLMAO

And the sad thing is...they will find buyers at list...who...next year will get all hot for the next wonder cable (power cord, capacitor of the month, magic beans etc) and trade in to a dealer or auction off and make money off the next over-monied sap...makes me think that being an audiophile, (or parent or Internet user), should require an entrance exam...

The schematic is from the Belgian review of the Cornwall II. The question mark refers to their not being able to deduce if there is a choke (or is it an autotransfomer, I am not sure either) in the circuit. I believe, based on the photos, this is an autotransformer, as is true of the other Heritage products, to knock down the sensitivity of the midrange horn. In brief, a capacitor resists instantaneous changes in current, and a coil (inductor, choke) resists instantaneous changes in voltage. For crossovers, these properties mean a cap will pass alternating current above a certain frequency, but not below it, and will block DC altogether. A coil will pass frequencies below a certain frequency, but not above it, and will pass DC. Thus a simple tweeter crossover features a cap in series. A simple woofer crossover features a coil in series. The two may be combined to achieve sharper cutoffs at a given crossover point. "Basic Electronics" by Bernard Grob (especially the late 50s editions before all that digital doo-doo came in are very good at explaining filters.

Klipsch used to sell the K-horn bass bin by itself. Then one could assemble the top end to one's taste and pocketbook. Don't know if Klipsch offers the bass horn alone anyomre.

Cane fabric was very fashionable in the 50s and 60s and so should be available from professional decorator sources who are involved with restoring furniture of that era. Antique dealers specilaizing in 'retro' should be able to network to these folks. You may also look for a craftsperson weaver who might make small run of it. Woven cane (or rush, or reed, the terminolgy varies by country and region) is widely used and readily available to create and repair chair seats and other furniture. Whoever says there is an environmental issue with real cane fabric doesn't know what he's talking about. It's a renewable resource that is used world wide for baskets, furniture, fabric, screens etc.

Peace be with you! You are getting worked up over a non-issue. Specmanship-Klipsch's or anyone elses- being what it is, the half-power points at each end of the listed "bandwidth" are specified conservativly as the "effective" limits. Especially on the bass end-with room reinforcement-these can be bettered to some extent. In every credible independant test report I've seen, Klipsch Heritage equipment meets, and usually exceeds, its specifications for bandwidth, efficency and distortion. The "tolerance" that is, the plus or minus X dB, is less important than the overall smoothness of response. The human ear fills in most narrow "valleys" in response but finds peaks harder to deal with. Roughness in the upper midrange is more objectionable than ripples in the bass response, most of which will be swamped out by room effects anyway. Paul Klipsch was much more concerned with distortion, and particulary modulation or FM distortion, than he was with "mere smoothness". The classic acoustic suspension units-like the high-end ARs-achieved very smooth response curves by choking the dynamic range, and therefore all the life, out of their music.

My secondary system (non-Klipsch) has a Sumo Electra preamp with bass and treble controls. The Electra is one of the best preamps ever made, if you can find it through the usual auction sources or somebody on this forum. My primary system (Cornwalls in each room corner plus a homemade center speaker) has several different tone controls modes from the Yamaha RXV2500 receiver. Right now I am running with no "bass" or "treble" per se dialed in, but with the Yamaha YPAO (whatever that stands for...) measurement-based system EQ enabled. I got my Rives Audio test CD and will check the system with my SPL meter soon.

---------------- On 3/15/2005 8:15:36 AM maxg wrote: Ya know Dean I have been thinking. Maybe we could make a mock 2 way using something like a concentric driver (ala Tannoy) or even something like the drivers used on an Avantgarde Solo. Rigging up a tweeter within a midrange driver would get around all these problems in one fell swoop - although it would enforce the use of a circular horn opening which is not really in keeping with the design you are looking for. Course if we could then put this within the bass bin...... ---------------- There have also been attempts to drive one horn with a mid and tweeter unit on the same manifold. I think the modulation distortion would be excessive. If you look at Paul's paper on the K-400, he shows a curve from a tweeter mounted in the mouth of the mid, and the curve shows comb filtering from two drivers trying to occupy the same space at the same time, i.e. in the crossover region. That would have been true of the old K-5-J set-up where T-35s or University 4401's were often mounted on flanges at the mouth of the mid to make a three-way system. A possible approach to a 'unified' top end could be an adaption of the Beveridge acoustic lens, which is used to load and control the output of an electrostatic panel. http://beveridge-audio.com/Technology.htm It seems to me that the narrow constriction acts as a 'phase plug' at least in one dimension and creates a virtual driver at that plane. I hasten to add that the Beveridge lens is of course patented. I have heard the Beveridges and they and the Klipschorn are the two best speakers I have ever heard.

"Misery loves company" so the saying goes. My household has 6 computers (three Macs, three PCs), two aquariums, two electrostatic air cleaners, one HEPA air cleaner, and one humidifier. The RFI, especially from 2-5 MHz is pretty bad. Good thing I am only a casual shortwave listener and not a ham! Despite all this, I have no interference with the HT set-up.

"Misery loves company" so the saying goes. My household has 6 computers (three Macs, three PCs), two aquariums, two electrostatic air cleaners, one HEPA air cleaner, and one humidifier. The RFI, especially from 2-5 MHz is pretty bad. Good thing I am only a casual shortwave listener and not a ham! Despite all this, I have no interference with the HT set-up.

PWK would have loved this!

I have not gotten my Rives Audio CD yet, although it's on order. I did a similiar experiment with my RS analog meter the other day after the SO left for work. In a 16 x 25 room with a vaulted ceiling (12 feet at ridge), four Cornwalls were pounding out disco at an average level of 90 dB, peaks at 94 in the center of the room. The speakers are in each of the 4 corners, although out from the corners by a couple of feet. Then switched to classical (Sibelius, Karelia Suite)and adjusted for the same average level. Peaks hit 102 dB. I have known that classical has a wider dynamic range than popular music but this was an ear-opener.

I would try Aileene (sp?) Tacky Glue which is sold by most craft stores, including Hobby Lobby, Michaels, etc. It grabs fast and dries clear. I've used it on a variety of fabrics, including plasticized types, and plastic items with good results. The only problem is that is has a high solvent component and the fumes are a little intense in confined spaces. Like most similar products it is flamamble. I have used the 3M 77, 80 and 90 spray adhesives with good success on fabric, especially olefin 'cabinet carpet' for PA boxes. Being a spray it harder to control the laydown than with thick liquid adhesive. Cane fabric was very fashionable in the 50s and 60s and so should be available from professional decorator sources who are involved with restoring furniture of that era. Antique dealers specilaizing in 'retro' should be able to network to these folks. You may also look for a craftsperson weaver who might make small run of it.

My mom says, "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar". The lister is out of line when says the Cornwall series II is "inferior" to the series I. Each has their partisans, but the II is not, in any way, inferior.

---------------- On 3/9/2005 7:08:24 AM v3spitfire wrote: could something like this, with the right driver and amp, be turned into a subwoofer with very high output? Or, is the cabinet design/build of something of this vinage not conducive to what a sub would require? ---------------- In a word, no. the horn is too small for subwoofer use. The throat is far too narrow, for one thing. Bruce Edgar's Titan shows what a deep-diving bass horn looks like. This old-timer probably cuts off at 100 Hz or so. The cabinet and the way the horn is installed within does not look well braced enough for serious bass. That having been said, when connected to a early radio set, the volume and clairty would have been impressive, especially compared with headphones or the various gooseneck table top horns of the day.

I think the K-77 has been taken about as far as it will go. There is little to be gained in higher efficiency from greater flux density since we already have a system that is at the top of efficiency for home systems. Bob Crites testing of the various diaphrams is very valuable, especially for us out here in Aftermarket Land, but the gains made with K-77 are, to me, just not worth the effort. I think that reproducing the K-79 would be a better choice. I know that when I get a pair of K-horns my first mod will be to swap the K-77s for K-79s or a tweeter of equal merit.

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