InFlux

---------------- On 6/22/2005 7:08:22 AM merkin wrote: PS you Sony ES users. I bought my receiver used and got a pfd manuel. I have looked and tried every way but I can't find how to set my bass frequency below 100 hz. When I go to surround edit I can set the bass frequency of fronts, center or rears from 100 to any thing higher but not lower. Am I doing something wrong or is that the nature of the beast. Maybe it is time to go to Denon 3805 or something. Still only 5.1. ---------------- Put me down as not having a clue what that means, either. I have the DA5ES. Are we proving your point? I'm not sure about the DA555ES, but mine has that IRRITATING equalizer curve that allows you to adjust the overall curve for bass, mid, and highs. I can slide my frequency down a little ways below 100 hz (maybe 63 hz?). I have finally dialed in the EQ for my center channel after months of tinkering... The ES does great for movies. It leaves much to be desired for music. I use a seperate BSR EQ4000 for music. That makes the ES sound decent and it is VERY easy to adjust. Love those memory present for the EQ. I think it will make a decent pre-amp in the future.

Hopefully this did help you out, Bigrol21. I was trying to be as objective as possible. It was really interesting because the room we listened in had terrible acoustics. The Bose was setup as correctly and optimally as possible. The RF35's that we listened to were shoved right into the corners and not toe'd in at all. The Bose cubes were about ear level. We were standing. The Klipsch's still sounded better, even though the horns were pointed at our belt buckles! Bose does have a great marketing strategy - appealing to very afluent men who want to keep their wives happy. I don't know if that dealer pushes the Bose line or not. I am sure they sell some units. But it sure was a great marketing tool for comparison to the Klipsch and Jamo lines that they carried.

---------------- On 6/21/2005 3:44:02 PM bigrol21 wrote: but how do the Reference-25 series compare to Bose? ---------------- Well, since it is fresh in my mind, I'll take a stab at this. In regards to bass response, the Bose bass module hits a distinct bass note. It really sounded like a narrow band of bass - which is a characteristic of the bandpass design they use. The depth of the bass (and the chest pounding form the RW12!) just was not there. In regards to the midrange, we could hear a distinct gap between where the bass module rolled off and the cubes kick in. Klipschs are not exactly an "even" speaker, but when placed side-by-side, the Bose sounded no better. The Bose's just couldn't move the air that the Klipsch could easly handle. On the top end, the highs almost sounded truncated - it reminded me of a first order crossover - where the sound just rolls off at 6dB, but it is still audible. $ for $, my buddy was able to get a much better system for a closely comparable price including a pair of RF35's, an RC35, a pair of RS25's, a RW12, and a Yamaha receiver (6.1 at 120x6). Like everyone says, just put them side-by-side and you will hear it!

I took a co-worker to the local Reference dealer over lunch today. Ok, it turned into a LONG lunch. It ends up that my buddy was actually considering a system by those people who make those little black cubes. After listening to some RF35's with an RW12, I had the salesman turn on the Lifestyle 38 system... You should have seen his face as his jaw hit the floor when we did a side-by-side "comparison". The holes in the frequency ranges became perfectly obvious. Entire ranges of bass missing and lack of definition in the higher ranges. Needless to say, I converted another one today, so put another notch in my belt.

All joking aside (please take it as such), the RF7's are a great speaker. I hope they continue to serve you well.

---------------- On 6/6/2005 10:27:31 PM KlipsDude wrote: InFlux, what ever! Don't start making assumptions on what I didn't say! Also, don't judge something if you haven't been there yourself. Don't start adding words that I haven't said Dude, get a life. You ain't worth my time Dude. ---------------- KlipsDude, What more can I say. I apologize as there was no need to point out the obvious. Best Regards, InFlux

---------------- On 6/6/2005 10:46:11 AM KlipsDude wrote: Dude, pass on the KLF line, it was good, but the RF-7 is better than the KLF-30. ---------------- Two-way vs. three-way = different sound Distorting mid-range = dirty amp/distortion/source problem/overdriving/underpowered/faulty driver Klipshorns & KLF-30's = not as good as RF7's???? I'm not sure everyone agrees with that assesment, but OK.

---------------- On 5/31/2005 12:47:03 PM vman71 wrote: Okay, I've initiated this question before but have new information that could change things. I have KLF-20's (mains) and a KLF-C7 (center) for my combination 2 channel and HT system. I'm considering a pair of KLF-10's as the rear surrounds. ---------------- This is exactly my setup. I have two KLF-10's on either side of my couch - behind me ever so slightly (in addition to some S6's on a speaker switch). The 10's have a lot of impact as surround speakers. The bass is phenominal (I run mine as "large"). I can, however, confirm your fears of the speakers being too low when you place the 10's on the SIDES. In my case, the speakers are blocked by the couch cushions & the head of the person sitting next to me. I am contemplating a riser to get the speakers up about 18" from where they sit. Also check out the picutres of the LaScalla riser that someone built (posted a few days ago). Not only does this give you an idea for a riser for the 10's, but that person is running 20's in the rear. He has his behind the couch & his couch is low enough that he gets unobstructed sound. This may aleviate your troubles... I could very easily just go with my S6's for surrounds, but I enjoy the 10's so much that I keep both. With some creative placement, I think you will be happy.

Item number: 5777869271 I don't know this persons - in fact this looks a little suspect... see the picutre and the claimed 3 out of 5 star rating... Anyways - this may be good for building a decent center channel...

---------------- On 5/26/2005 6:38:25 PM Gramas701 wrote: ... I think that if you want to go that route buy the bigger ones because the 30's are a much better speaker than the 20's. ... ---------------- By "much better" do you mean that their higher senstivity will perform better in the larger space? The 20's and 30's have the same drivers for the mids & highs (ie. they should sound very similar in those ranges). Cross-over points change between the woofer and mid (higher for the 30's - a little better mid bass). The 20's hit a little lower. 30's are louder with the same power... I agree that the 30's would be better for the space. I also think you'll like the 20's once you get them placed. Be careful up there if you ride up on that pallet to mount those speakers . Don't tell OSHA - oh wait, you're in Canade P.S. If I'm wrong about the 20's & 30's having the same drivers, please correct me!

---------------- On 5/24/2005 3:29:41 PM Thumpelstiltskin wrote: Man......I feel bad for the way this guy's being treated. He found a great deal and jumped on it. Now his forum "brothers" are slamming him for not giving the speakers away. That's a shame. Rick. ---------------- No kidding. lighten up people. In the last month I watched as someone on this forum ripped a new guy a new one for posting his ebay listing. Now, this person has the loyalty to make them available here first, and this is the response he gets? He saw the opportunity. He acted out on the same right you and I have. Since he doesn't need them, he is passing them along for a decent price. Good for him. Some people take this forum a bit to seriously...

---------------- On 5/24/2005 10:47:36 AM Frzninvt wrote: You already have them listed in the order of preference that I would suggest. ---------------- Ditto.

That sounds like a good system. Have you had the opportunity to listen to it yet at the store? Just for fun (If you have not alredy done so), you'll want to listen to the synergy and reference lines side-by-side to understand their differences. Make sure to bring along some good CD's when you audition the speakers. Listen particularly closely to both female and male vocals from speaker to speaker. When helping a friend choose his speakers, we used the Lion King soundtrack (hey, it was what we had). We focused in on the female vocals. We made trips to CC & Tw**ters (back in the day) and he was AMAZED at the differences from speaker to speaker when we compared the same track. He bought the Reference equivalent of what you have selected. I'm sure somebody can give you some input on a Receiver for the Synergy Floors... I always tell friends to get the mains & center first with the receiver, then the surrounds, and lastly the sub. I think you're on the right track. Good luck. Let us know your final choice! Good luck!

What Klipsch lines have you listened to already that you like? Reference, Synergy, Legend, etc... You need to start at your local Klipsch dealer or hook up with some local forum members to hear some different systems. What size is your room? IMHO - don't limit yourself too much up front. You may be happier in the long run with a very good set of Floor speakers - like the RF-7's, KLF-30's, K-Horns etc... Then, just add to them as you can afford it. My point is: listen to everything and then get what really sounds good to you and don't look back. Otherwise, you'll constantly be playing the upgrade game...

It took me a while to find this CD, but I use the score (not the soundtrack) to the movie, "The Crow". Track 11 I believe ("Devil's Night"). It is a good track to "experience" at reference levels.

---------------- On 5/23/2005 11:50:02 AM Dmaul187 wrote: I may break down and order a set RS-35's or the THX KS-525. I mainly will use these speakers for movies. Any thoughts as to how either of these sets will perform as surrounds? ---------------- I can't speak to the KS's, but my experience was that the Reference stuff sounded subtly different than the Legend line. To me, it became ever more noticable as time passed. Transitions from speaker to speakers were not what they should have been. I noticed a clear distinction between the "front" and "rear" sound stages. In fact, I sold my reference stuff and bought the S6's for the rear. As I watched "The Incredibles" last night, I was commenting on how well the S6's work for surrounds. They are worth the wait! Since you can't find the S6's and you are eager to do something soon, you really should consider two C7's (that won't cost much more than the S6's probably). They C7's will be easy to resell if you don't like them...

Out of curiousity, did this bass become more localized with the sub in the new location? Is this what is driving your decision for an additional sub?

---------------- On 5/19/2005 7:14:50 AM dmethe3 wrote: Do digital optical cable go bad over time? Do they have a life span? ---------------- The problem with optical cables is typically in the unions (connections), not the optical cable itself (unless the cable was damaged as indicated above). This is true of any fiber optic cable. My DVD player had intermittent problems with the optical signal. The DVD player was sending the signal, the receiver was expecting it, but nothing would happen. Over time I realized that the connection was not quite right into the back of the reciever. Upon reconnection of the cable, my problems disappeared. You may want to ensure that the cable is not being pulled at an angle as it enters/leaves your components. Make sure there is no play where the cables connect to your components.

---------------- On 5/18/2005 3:18:51 PM Erukian wrote: ... because it's more of a money hole... ---------------- Hopefully somebody here can recommend a kit for you. I've found that building speakers from scratch creates a situation that you are trying to avoid - a money pit! There is always a better driver, or coil, or cap, or wire, etc... And that perfect crossover point is sometimes so elusive... Don't get me wrong though, I love building speakers. I made many pairs, and I learned a bunch about speaker characteristics and crossovers. I mostly learned what doesn't work together, but I got it right more than not at the end. I don't konw how much of that you'll get from a kit.

I shouldn't have bought my center channel before measuring to see how big that thing really was! I shouldn't have just run a single pair of in-wall wires to each wall plate... I shouldn't have bought new speakers before upgrading the 30 year old couch (that one was for the wife). I shouldn't have tested my new speakers to see how loud they really went (that one was for the neighbor). I shouldn't have bought that last component before measuring how much room I had left in my AV rack...

I agree with the above. That was SLOW even on a highspeed connection. Nice look and feel. Kind of techy feeling - the engineering video made it feel more grounded (not pie-in-the sky marketing). Oh yeah, the styrofoam coffee cup on the top shelf by the scope was a nice touch in the movie... It looked just like an electrical engineering lab in college...

---------------- On 5/18/2005 8:50:49 AM Drew in the desert wrote: I had a chance to pay around with my setup last night to see if I could remedy the 40Hz dip I have at the listening position. I noticed that if I move the SPL meter only a foot away in either direction, my SPL jumps up to 70-75Hz. The same 40Hz tone is also generating close to 90Hz in the rear left corner of my room (which is where I think a bass trap might help). So, If my listening position measures in at 67Hz and 75Hz only 1 foot behind me, then I should just be able to move my couch back a foot. I think this will at least help the situation a bit. ---------------- Very nice setup and room. How do you like those KSP-S6's? The scientific method works again. Are you confusing Hz with dB - either way your point was well made. After seeing how "reflective" your room is, I can fully see Dr. Who's points. I would bet money that you will find a similar phenomenon at higher frequencies if you looked at your full spectrum of sound. There may be some benefits to attempting to get some acoustical treatments on the front and side walls (curtains, acoustical tiles, etc...). People have claimed that their dog can change the acoustics of a room. I added an ottoman (sp?) and I had to adjust my center channel...

---------------- http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html ---------------- Interesting Article! Thanks for the clarification.

I'm asking, not recommending here... Wouldn't moving the sub AWAY from the corner of the room also potentially help tame the nodes? You could test the response with the sub in different locations or even with varried distances from the corner... I like your approach. You now have a clear baseline to compare any changes against. Please keep posting your results!

Just to be clear... what is your Sub's low-pass crossover set at? What is your receiver's crossover set at? 80Hz? Any bass boost being used (ie. loudness type button)?