jdm56

...in the process of telephone "price shopping" for a belle klipsch to use as a center speaker with my corner horns. One salesperson asked why I didn't want to get another klipschorn for use as a center channel speaker! Another must have yawned into the phone a half dozen times while trying to find his price list. (This was mid-afternoon). One gal, when I said I was interested in a belle klipsch, asked if that was home or car audio. And then a salesperson, after digging through his info for a while, priced me a single, new belle for under $970.00. After a stunned pause I said. "That's awfully good; How are you doin' that? Another pause and, "Oh, wait a minute..." I said, "Wrong column"? "Uh, yeah; wrong column", he replied. Ah, audio humor... -Blind Melon

talktoKeith: "That is without the "Rose Bowl,Fish Bowl,And Toilet Bowl"modes" Yeah, some of them are kinda ridiculous. When I first got my Sony TA-E1000ES AV preamp back in '90, I soon tired of the phasey, diffuse sound. Especially on studio recordings. I do think the "hall" modes were very effective with classical music, but pretty much everything else sucked with much "enhancment" at all. I ended up going back to a straight 2-channel Sony integrated amp for music, and banished the AV preamp to the family room for video sound use only. I like to watch Monday Night Football in the stadium mode -- far out! (as John Denver used to say). That Sony does have a very useful 3 band digital parametric EQ. That is something I'd like to see other makers use. It lets you realy zero in on room resonance problems. Enjoyed the thread. Glad to see the agreement. Maybe the makers will see the light. (Perhaps they already have). ------------------ JDMcCall

Doug, Thanks for the response even though it was none of my danged business anyway. That is kind of what I figured happened. You know, I've wondered if klipsch had a factory outlet somewhere. I've been to the Bose outlet in Osage Beach, Missouri a number of times. (Where am I supposed to go while my wife drags the kids to all the clothing and shoe outlets?) If they ever open one up, I hope it's within driving distance. Although, I must say the prices at the Bose outlet did not seem all that great. Thanks again for the info and enjoy 'dem horns! ------------------ JDMcCall

talktoKeith: <<Got any idea who makes the recievers with the "party mde" you spoke of?>> Citation, Lexicon and HK preamps come to mind. Other than the Denon mentioned by ERIK, I'm not sure off the top of my head which receivers do and which don't. ...sure do miss the AUDIO buyers guide! Like ERIK said, I too believe proper playback of two-channel recordings over multi-channel systems will become more of a priority in the future. ------------------ JDMcCall

I see some of the guys who made the pilgramage to Hope left with new speakers. I did not know you could buy klipsch "factory direct". Or were they puchased from a dealer and then just picked up at the factory? I don't mean to be nosey, but as I am hoping to add a belle klipsch center and possibly two or three heresys for surround, I was just curious as to how the factory pickup came to be and what, if any were the uh..."financial considerations" involved. This info might be useful when I present my case for making the next klipsch pilgramage to my spousal unit/financial advisor. ha -Blind Melon McCall

JuneBug, You're getting a little too much of a good thing, eh? Have you tried toeing in the speakers a bit? So long as you don't overdo it to the point of dulling the sound, that might help. You might try bringing them in to where the speakers axis' cross just in front of the listening spot. ------------------ JDMcCall

I've read a lot of good things about Rotels, but they undoubtably use a Japanese or Dutch transport anyway. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid of one, but I'd have more confidence with a Sony. Or to put it another way, if I had a Rotel system, I certainly would not hesitate to add a Rotel CD player. But otherwise -- well, Sony's are just so well engineered. The fit and finish is superb, yada-yada-yada... But I'm prejudiced; I've got two. Both purchased in 1990. A CDP-X33ES and a CDP-C9ES 10 disc changer. The X33 has had almost daily use and the changer only limited use, but both still function flawlessly and sound as good as new.

Some receivers/processors do have a "party" mode that does just what you mention - unprocessed stereo to all speakers in a surround set-up. I assume the center would receive a summed (L+R) signal. Yeah, I would prefer that to gimmicky, phasey, over-processed fake surround. But even better for music (listening - not parties) to me, would be this: Totally inprocessed front L+R, summed center, and a simple "Hafler" derived signal for the surround speakers. Vital enhancements would be variable level and delay to center and surrounds, and variable amounts of reverb and/or echo to surrounds. That's really all I ask to utilize the additional amps and speakers of multi-channel systems to enhance two-channel recordings without screwing them up. Is that too much? ------------------ JDMcCall

You might try looking in a Crutchfield, J&R Music World, or Audio Advisor catalog. (or website) All three have a good selection of speaker stands at fair prices. 48 inchers might be a tall order. (pun intended) sorry, i couldn't resist.s>

Although I would not criticize anyone who chooses a tube amp, to me it's kind of a dog/cat thing. Personally, I'm just not up to the hassle and expense. I like the sound of good solid state amps, therefore I would look for a high quality, low noise solid state amp in the 50 to 100 watt range. ------------------ JDMcCall

I think you'll find as the price goes up, build quality, performance and feature count goes up, too. I always just compare the different models in those three areas and find where I'm comfortable. I usually end up somewhere towards the middle of the line. Sonys almost always negotiate disc flaws better than the average CD player. Denons have tended to not be as good in this respect, but there are a lot of happy Denon owners on this BB, so perhaps good enough is good enough. Other than that, and perhaps DAC linearity, I would say Denons are competitive with Sony. My opinions stated above are just the result of years of reading every review in Audio, Stereo Review, Stereophile and whatever else I could get my hands on. They are not necessarily going to apply to any particular model, but just represent an impression of the brand as a whole. In other words, YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY! But FWIW, buy a midline Sony ES model and you will be a happy camper. -Blind Melon

I'd get another la scala for the center if there is room for it. If not, another heresy would be my second choice. Either way you're gonna have a hammerin' good rig!

quote: Originally posted by halfclue: MacKlipsch: I got Belles last summer to replace La Scalas. The reason: My wife thought the La Scalas were too ugly for the room. So, being a good husband who is always sensitive to his wife's feelings, I went out and purchased more attractive speakers... Am I a good husband or what? Mike Your wife is truly blessed. -Blind Melon McCall

Can't you get enough output by tweaking up the center level when you balance your speakers in the setup mode?

quote: Originally posted by vonbonds: James. Do you have a Yamaha reciever? Tom No Yamaha receiver; I just thought everything had a phantom center mode. I use an old Sony TA-E1000ES A/V preamp for what little "A/V-ing" I do. It's 11 years old, so maybe some newer stuff doesn't even have the phantom mode. Perhaps they figure everybody uses a center channel by now. As for surround processed stereo, I think it can be great, but only if it's done right: Leave the front l & r alone, sum the center, and go light on the delay and reverb to the surrounds! -There, you have the gospel according to Dougy. ------------------ JDMcCall

Whether to use the CD player DACs or the receivers, comes down to whether or not your receiver is going to do any DSP, in my humble opinion. If it is, you may as well use the digital output from the CD player to the receiver to avoid the extra analog to digital conversion that the receiver would have to do. I think that would probably have more audible consequences than just the difference in converters in comparably priced equipment. As for which CD player in that price range, I like the Sonys. Particularly the ES models. But I don't think there would be that much audible difference between similarly priced gear. And finally, I wouldn't personally give a second thought to whether a player had HDCD capability or not. Especially for one disc. ------------------ JDMcCall

quote: Originally posted by BobG: Small world, a former associate was the designer of those Amrita speakers. He had nothing to do with Klipsch. Knew him in a former life. He also designed a limited distribution brand known as Graphyx Yes, it's a small world after all. The big Amritas are still performing just fine for the co-worker I sold them to. I did hate to see Amrita bite the dust. Especially since they had relocated to the KC area. I thought their speakers were very well made, with high quality drivers. Also, all the models I listened to were quite competitive in their price ranges with the more well known brands. But in the end, for me, they just weren't klipsch. No speaker has ever been able to produce a big, goofy ear-to-ear grin on my homely mug like a pair of klipschorns!

I guess I'd differ a little bit and recommend the surrounds first if your front stereo pair are fairly close together. If they are close to the TV, I don't think the center channel is that critical. Just use the "phantom center" mode on your receiver. On the other hand, if your KLF-10s are pretty far apart, then I would say go ahead and do the center first, to fill in the gap. Particularly if viewers often sit off center of the sweet spot. It's pretty weird having voices come from 6 feet to the side of the TV!

Another La Scala of course, if you've got room. But if you're talkin' about an A/V rig and a La Scala won't fit, my second choice would be a heresy. And if that won't fit, a KLF-C7 would still be real good, if you can find one. Seems I read they were discontinued. Good luck.

I can sympathize - I sold an immaculate pair of '85 cornwalls in 1993. I realized I'd made a big mistake when I demo'd them for a prospective buyer. At that point I'd had their replacements, a pair of Amrita Reference Standards, in my system for a few months and had convinced myself that at over twice the price, they were an improvement. But just a few bars into Alan Jacksons' "Chattahoochee" I knew I'd blown it - big time. Those big Amritas, though somewhat smoother and more extended, just didn't have that liveness, that punch, that clean, clear and cool klipsch sound!s> From that point, I started my long trek back to the klipsch fold, from which I shall not stray, so help me PWK. To paraphrase a line from an old klipsch heresy print add; These klipschorns aren't for sale! ------------------ JDMcCall

You might check http://www.guidetohometheater.com/. They have had some good articles on building home theatres from the ground up. Be sure and check their archives, too. Good Luck! ------------------ JDMcCall

quote: Originally posted by mdeneen: -- I just whipped it up after I read your initial post. mdeneen Whipped it up? What - in a Sunbeam? Just add water and stir... -Blind Melon

quote: Originally posted by Randy Bey: to go another octave lower? Technically speaking;Too Danged Big!s> -Blind Mellon McCall

quote: Originally posted by mdeneen: McCall - You thinking of something like this? mdeneen Say, 18 x 24 Glossy, ready to frame? Ohhhhhhh Baaaaaaaaby!!! Now that'ss> thes> ticket!s> (sounds of heart pounding, heavy breathing and general frothing at the mouth.) So, uh...can i have it? oh, please can i can i can i...huh? HOW MUCH??? -Blind Melon McCall

I tried this technic with my cornerhorns but the bass performance seemed to be adversely affected by the sideways orientation. Then, being no ones fool, it dawned on me that I should achieve much the same effect simply by lying on my side on the couch in front of the speakers. I must say though, that imaging was not in any way enhanced, and in fact the soundstage seemed to be rather vague and poorly defined. I did think that the music seemed to take on a more relaxed and soothing quality that I can't fully explain. Even to the point of inducing sleepiness. Repeated testing produced similar or even more pronounced states of drowsiness, especially after a long days work, or late at night. Although I am at a loss to explain such phenomena, I know what I heard. I wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences with what I now call "sideways imaging"? Really, Blind Melon McCall