ClaudeJ1

I'm not modeling the JBL any time soon. I just moved all my speakers to a new space, which is a large loft, which I'm enlarging. The EV speakers stomped the K33's and Crites 1526. According to Dr. Bruce Edgar, the EVM 15 L or B is the best 15" woofer for a horn, and it models extremely well. Again I went from 4 way to 3-way, and it was tough to fill the missing sound from the Peavey MB-1 super midbass/midrange horn. It too the EVM woofer with brand new cones and lots of digital EQ to make it work and it's wonderful. I have no need for a JBL. I would like to see the results of that guy's MEASURMENTS, not just "opinion" need to see data. What kind of "distortion"

BTW, John Allen's 555 cabinet was designed by the son of Gary Gillum. Gary used to be Chief Engineer at Klipsch, now retired in his 70's. He is co-patent holder with PWK on the MWM bass units and build many improved versions for John Allen as well. He is also the guy who designe the KG2 and KG4 speakers (the original KG2 was really KG squared, which stood for GG, Gary Gillum).

Mr. 2sick2pray, I highly recommend that you model the cabinets in Hornresp before you build anything. I have designed my own bass horns, yet to be built and have modeled the FH-1 with various drivers and even came up with a mouth extension for it that lowers the response. Better to use computer time than waste lumber.........can you do any measurements??

Which plans?

I had 4, then 2 MWMs bins in my setup for about 2 years. The MWM is a 6 foot horn, so instead I built an 18-foot Tapped Horn to go way lower......15 Hz. instead of 45 Hz., which is what the MWM does. Since the MWM is not very good above about 300 Hz., it was necessary to go with a midbass horn, which the Peavery MB-1 was the best match.....size wise and even more efficicient for lower distortion. I have since downsized to a PEQ'd FH-1 3-foot horn similar to a LaScala and went from 4 way with sub to 3-way with sub. It was difficult to replace the amazing sound of the Peavery MB-1, which I sold to Coytee, but with the K-402 and the 1133 Klipsch driver, I can get to 320 Hz. with the K402, so it's an easy fit with a PEQ'd FH-1 ("CheapScala") bin with the EVM 15L woofer that does an amazing job, expecially in the upper bass/lower mid., which is +4 db at 400 Hz. vs. the K-33. I needed to nudge the EQat 65Hz. and knock down the inherent 135 Hz. peak on the LaScala/FH-1 type short horn W bins to get to "normal" flat, but I now have incredible micro detail on bass notes all the way to female vocals...................couldn't be happier and I have one less "way" and more room on my floor. THe MWM's were wonderful, though, I just had to downsize for a smaller domicle, unfortunately.

Anyone in Hollywood should just call her and get the names of her plastic surgeons, period. I recommend the Blue Ray "Burlesque." Christina or Cher do NOT need auto tune. Cher used it for a special effect, not to pitch up her voice, like the others.She had to deliberately sing off pitch for the effect to kick in.

Yes we are 104-113 db per watt, depending on the horn driver combo. LOL.

Should have known from the devil mask you put there, but I needed to be sure. LOL..Peace to ya fellow Klipsch Head.

I don't think W.C. was planning on selling anything except more 402's since Martinelli's are rare, no longer made, and quite a gorgeous, great sounding horn on his even more rare (is that redundant?) Golden Jubes. K-402's are like the old Doritos commercials: "Don't worry, we'll make more." .......in lower volumes to play at high volumes of course.

OK, I'll be checking in. Glad you like.

How about simply "Heavenly?"

You can get trashed out burned out EVM 15 L or B (they are the same) frames/magnets real cheap (about $50) and have them reconed for less than $200 per pair..............I know a guy.........

Claude, could you say more about the sub issue? A good tapped horn will limit you to about 60-70 Hz on the top end, so you will have to EQ the LaScala below 100 hz. too meet up with the sub. If you are using a direct radiator sub or a Tuba HT, you can probably just cross at 100 Hz. Your room and placement will dictate much of this.

Correct, but the midrange and mid bass detail is nothing short of incredible.........a good trade.........you can get the bass back with some EQ with a Behringer and bi amping. You should be using PEQ anyway to flatten the inherent 130 hz. peak in all LaSclas anyhow. About -7db.

In my case, a tapped horn sub has had a domino effect on my bass, so I'm able to use a bass horn that is cheaper and has fewer folds than a Jube, so the extra expense and cabinet height is not necessary............see my Avatar. As a result I cross over into the 402 at a much lower frequency than the rest here, with a scary amount of transient response from 320 Hz. on up, because I'm not going through the bass section, which, while having the lowest moving mass possible with the strongest magnet, it's still a cone going through a labyrith as opposed to a staight axis horn............superior, in my opinion. Next step for me is a straight axis horn of my own design to replace the FH-1...........no jubes for me because of the tapped sub. So the bottom line, is, knowing that W.C. has some good ears and good program material, I'm confident of the outcome of his testing, once he gets it all set up right for his taste.

I actually find this post humourous, in the sense that we are a passionate crowd. Having owned 2 Khorns and a LaScala in the classic 2 channel with mono phantom center for over 30 years, I got the bug to upgrade about 5 years ago. I have owned every type of older and newer heritage Klipsches as well for home and commercial use. When I sold my Khorns, I even had MWMs "stacks" with JBL and EV drivers on top with various mid horns. Starting with JBL baby cheek tweeters on top of my Khorns I evolved into what I have now, which rivals or even beats out a Jubilee 2-way. Now that I own a pair, I can say with hearing and measurements that the K-402 horn lens is the best midrange/tweeter horn I have ever had. All of the other fanatics here have this in common as well, regardless of a Khorn, Jubillee, LaScala, or MWMs, or double 15" BR bottoms, the common denomiator is the K-402 with different drivers. All of them have also required an active or passive balancing network with mono or bi amping. I prefer bi amping passive or active, because there is a differnce in sensitivity between bass and mid by about 5-6 db depnding on the driver used. There are other settings besides Roy's. ALL bass horns need some sort of EQ to flatten out their inherent peaks........this is a modern improvement which makes a huge difference. Even the latest factory built Khorn has introduced a pretey fancy network for the bass section vs. the old AA. Some people are still blown away by the traditional Khorns, understandably, but when you consider that the Jubilee bass bin is flatter, has better transients (two motors instea of one), lower distortion, better bandwidth, and better polars, it hits all of PWK's principles on all cylinders and Paul himself would have wanted the Jube to be made pretty and sold as the flagship. Alas, it was not be, except for those fanatics who insist on making it happen because it is truly better by anyone's standards..................Even JBL fanatics who have actually heard them.

I remember getting a similar effect when I tried K-43 woofers in my LaScalas years ago..........higher BL product tipped the response upwards and thinned the low end a bit more..........a worthwhile trade IMHO. So now I have "cheap Scalas"......Peavey FH-1 bins (more solidly built, larger, and superior when modeled in Hornrespt BTW) and did the upgrade there. I was trying to go for an even more extreme BL product and I got about 4 db Higher output at 400 Hz. from the EVM's vs. the old K-33's.......measureable and VERY audible. I'm using a Behringer to flatten the inherent 140 Hz. peak in these stubby horns while boosting +7 db at 63 Hz. before rolloff to my tapped horn sub at 60 hz.via my receiver Audyssey setup. Not only is midrange detail exquisite, expecially on female vocals (piano guitar, sax,, etc.), but every bass not is clear and distinct to a scary because the super light cone and frikking huge magnet improves the transients to an amazing degree. Those who like the "fast bass" in a LaScala will be licking your chops with this upgrade.

For those who use a subwoofer with your LaScalas, I highly recommend you get a pair of EVM 15L or 15B woofers. The increase in micro detail in the midrange and the midbass definition will astound you. It's Dr. Bruce Edgar's favoritewoofers for horn loading. I am a fan for sure. For those without Subs, don't mess with your LaScalas unless you want to add one.

It was the intro to that song when I first heard the Jubilee's and right after that initial (kickdrum?) I smiled to myself and said "THAT is the sound I've been looking for" and ordered them the following week. So, that listening test took all of what, 30 seconds? For the record, gentlemen, that is NOT a kick drum it's a sub-harmonically sythsized bass from a pickup in a CONGA DRUM. The DVD Video (Hell Frezzes Over) clearly shows this. It is great demo because a good horn setup will pick up the high frequency resonance on the second hand strike on the edge of the head........very distinct shift in timbre, which many non-horn speaker/room anomalies will blur to the point of non-detection. It's one of my tests as well.

Of course, I know that, you know me better than that and vice versa. I was not being critical of your methods at all, just trying to cheer you on to what I think IS optimium for that horn/driver combo.......you are so close!!

Well, the DX 38 with the full tilt boogie PEQ will make a HUGE difference vs. "effectively generic" passives" with the wrong Xover point. You WILL be blown away over the difference, expeically since the bass bin is also EQ'd HAH!!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!

Now THAT sounds like a very cool toy to play with, now that you have speakers that start to come alive below 60 Hz. (the disco thump frequency).

In Vol. 8, #1, July11, 1967,in the last paragraph, Paul Klipsch identifies the problem that has persisted with RCA line level connectors, that still exist today. Namely that the ground is disconnected before the hot, which puts out a square wave that acts like a hammer blow to all the voice coils, almost guaranteeing failure in the most fragile voice coil...........the tweeter. I believe this was the main reason that the AA network was created with back to back Zener diodes to prevent K77 replacments. When I was in PWK's home in 1985, he walked into the back of his equipment closet and started unpluggin and plugging in RCA connector to swap out some inputs. There were some squeals to be heard fromthis process theough his Khorns and Center Belle. But the funniest part was PWK swearing about it the whole time %$#@$#%!%%$#@%$@%$. Quite a funny memory for me when I was still a kid paying a visit to his idol.

I really think you will need option 3 here. You have way more power than you will ever be able to use. Those subs will scare strangers with the right movie. For music, I would cross them at 50-60 Hz. since the Jubes roll of there a bit. Get ready to discover the super low bass that's been missing from your setup, but you will be hard pressed to find music that takes full advantange of true sub bass.