RossVTaylor

cBas, I've got an Onkyo 8511, and I'm really impressed with its build quality and power. I'm using it for my in-wall house speakers (six pairs), so I can't judge its audio quality in an "audiophile" environment. But, I think it's a killer receiver - especially for the money. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

"My .02 (which, with another .98, will get you a cup of java)." Yeah, but it'll take you another 3 bucks for a Venti Latte. ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Porsche, Here's the text from a post I made in another thread. It applies well, I think, to your speaker setting question: "You should expect *some* difference in sound as the pink noise signal rotates through the speakers. In my last house, I thought I had a defect in my new receiver or in my trusty RB-5s. The right one sounded different from the left one with the noise generator. I switched speakers and the sound difference remained the same, so that ruled out the speakers. Must be the receiver, right?? Well, this was my first lesson in the influence of room acoustics. The left side of the family room had a almost full-length wall, while the right side was open to the kitchen/breakfast nook. It turned out that it was this difference that affected the sound so much. I really, until this, had no idea how profoundly a room could affect speaker sound. Then, when I bought a Radio Shack SPL meter, I was shocked to find out how far off I was in my speaker level settings. I had set them all to the same volume, using my ears, and I'd have argued that they were pretty darn close. Well, here came lesson number two. I was *way* off! That meter was a great $35 investment." I think, if you check your settings with a meter, you'll find you were off like I was. The subwoofer, especially, is tough to estimate by ear. It's tough for us to judge low bass like that. The Radio Shack meter is a great investment. Get the cheaper analog one (with the needle) instead of the more expensive digital display model. Have fun! Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Okay, Sparky, I didn't mean to get on a Denon kick I was just writing about what I knew for sure. Onkyo makes great stuff, and I just steered a friend to an Integra AV receiver. It sounds like the Onkyo does the same "processing" as the Denon. In fact, I'd assume most are similar in how they handle 5-channel stereo. Ya gotta do something with that pesky center channel. Onkyo, Onkyo, Onkyo... Go Onkyo!!! Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Elliott, I've got both the RS-3s and Heresies for surrounds, so I feel your pain! My room's not yet done, so they're only mounted temporarily. My original Heresies, that I had in college, were hung from the outside rafter tails for parties - I put big eye bolts in the sides and hung them from rope... hey, I was young. I'd sure not deface a Klipsch like that now!! Do a search for a thread a few months ago, entitled "what's up with the visit to Klipschland" or something like that. Or do a search for "klipsch photos" in the General forum. You should find a thread in which many of us posted photos from a trip to the factory and theater room. The eight Heresy surrounds were mounted on relatively simple plywood shelves, angled downwards. They consisted of a bottom shelf, a back piece, and a triangular piece on either side (with a small trim strip on the front edge of the shelf, to keep the Heresy from sliding off). The photos should make this more clear than I'm explaining it. In my HT room, I'll end up laying the Heresy surrounds on their sides (for space reasons, but they sound great that way too) in the rear room corners, just below the ceiling. I'll be using a shelf similar to those I described, just made wider to accomodate the on-its-side Heresy. They'll be worth it! Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Oh, BTW. The Heresy was originally designed as a center channel speaker. My Heresy center is right-side-up, on a slant riser base, below where the screen will eventually go. The old documentation also indicates that you can lay the Heresy on its side, if that works out better for your setup. Before the LaScalas, I had my Heresies (in front) on their sides for a while, and I thought it helped imaging somewhat. I've not put my center Heresy on its side, but I wouldn't hesitate to try it if my room layout demanded it. Ross again... ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Chris, That's a great move! I think you'll love the Heresy as a center and it'll be a great match for your other Heritage speakers. I'm using a Heresy II with my LaScalas up front, and I've got two Heresy IIs for rear music surrounds. It's an incredible combo. My RS-3s are great surround speakers, but I'm sticking with Heritages all around for music (I know, I know... one of those 5-channel stereo guys...). I do love to listen to the LaScalas in plain ole two-channel mode, but I think the Heresies sound great in a multi-channel setup like you're planning. Let us know how you like the sound and how it compares to your other center! Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Tim, That's correct. On the Denon, the rear surrounds have the same signal as the front speakers. It's only the center that has the matrixed signal. I read of a different method that derives the rear channels, but I can't for the life of me remember who had it. In any case, unlike most DSP modes there is no delay built in here. I can't comment on the Yamaha DSP modes - my old RSV-1070 had some, but I never used them. It was a ProLogic receiver and the rears only had, I think, 20 watt amps unlike the full-power rears of Dolby Digital receivers. My Denon's got some DSP modes too, but I don't care for the sound. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Keith, "commode" mode sounds crappy, just like the others... Myram, I don't think that's entirely accurate. According to my Denon manual, the 5-ch/7-ch stereo mode is : "The front left channel signals are output to the surround and surround back signal left channels, the front right channel signals are output to the surround and surround back signal right channels, and the in-phase component of the left and right channels is output to the center channel." From what I've read, I believe that most of the other manufacturers also matrix out some different signals for either the center or rear channels. Dolby ProLogic can be, and often is, subjected to DSP modes. So there may be a DPL Theater mode, and a DPL Sports mode. It's a different animal from 5-ch stereo and it doesn't work well for music, hence the new DPL II processing. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Hello, Tim. 5-channel stereo... now that's an oxymoron! I was reading a letter in one of the current HT magazines, where the author reminisced of the old days when "2-channel" music was called "stereo." Anyway, back to the question... I've got a Denon with the 5-channel stereo mode. Lots of receivers have multi-channel playback modes, but some only play stereo sources through the surround speakers with a DSP (digital sound processing) mode. Those are those modes like "jazz hall", "auditorium", "stadium" or "commode" where the stereo music or source is played back through all 5 speakers, but there is an echo delay or reverberation built into the processing. It's supposed to simulate listening to your music in a grand hall or small club or whatever, but usually it just sounds fake. Receivers with 5-channel or 7-channel stereo modes play the music through all five speakers, but without the echo or delay. The right and left front speakers usually play a normal stereo signal, while the center and rear speakers play a matrixed or derived signal. If you promise not to tell anyone else here, I'll admit that I often listen to jazz with my receiver's 5-channel mode. At least in my setup, it works pretty darn good. Remember, though, don't tell anyone... they'll pull my audiophile card. The major drawback of a 5-channel music system is that the surround speakers that sound best for home theater use may not be the same ones that sound best for music. Most HT surrounds are dipole or wide dispersion speakers, while most music listeners seem to prefer rear speakers that match the fronts. Systems and tasts vary, of course, but this difference has led some of the receiver manufacturers to permit the use of both kinds of speakers in the same system. Mine lets me use my RS-3 surrounds for movies, but my Heresy surrounds for music. I've not yet heard the ProLogic II, which is an improved ProLogic mode that is supposed to be optimized for creating multi-channel playback of stereo music. My receiver's supposed to be upgraded to DPL II later this summer (holding my breath... ), but I can't imagine being much happier than I am with the standard 5-channel stereo mode. Hope this helped, Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Mr. Afraid, Boosting the gain on the upper frequencies is going to (as you found out) accent any hiss that might be present in your system. I don't know what the "+5" means on your system, but if it's as you said "all the way up" then you'd certainly be overemphasizing any high frequency noise or hiss in your system. Good for you, liking treble! Most of the complaints and tweaks you'll read about here concern too much treble! I think far too many people (outside of the Klipsch realm) are seduced by over-bassed sound. But, I digress... I think, in general, you're best off leaving your tone controls flat and adjusting speaker placement and room acoustics to get the right sound. Does your room have lots of curtains and carpeting? Are your speakers on the floor or on stands? All of these things can affect the speaker's tone. Experiment, and leave that treble control alone. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

You should expect *some* difference in sound as the pink noise signal rotates through the speakers. In my last house, I thought I had a defect in my new receiver or in my trusty RB-5s. The right one sounded different from the left one with the noise generator. I switched speakers and the sound difference remained the same, so that ruled out the speakers. Must be the receiver, right?? Well, this was my first lesson in the influence of room acoustics. The left side of the family room had a almost full-length wall, while the right side was open to the kitchen/breakfast nook. It turned out that it was this difference that affected the sound so much. I really, until this, had no idea how profoundly a room could affect speaker sound. Then, when I bought a Radio Shack SPL meter, I was shocked to find out how far off I was in my speaker level settings. I had set them all to the same volume, using my ears, and I'd have argued that they were pretty darn close. Well, here came lesson number two. I was *way* off! That meter was a great $35 investment. Before you write off your RC-3, try moving it around a bit to see how the sound changes. And, like others have said, make sure you use a meter to adjust the balances. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

SS, I think the new stuff is being officially presented the week after next. I've got a brochure on them here somewhere, if I can find it in this mess. Some of us were able to hear the RSW-15 subwoofer a few months ago and it was quite impressive. A 15-inch driver and a passive radiator. The sub was very stylish - a bit rectangular with the driver and radiator on opposite ends. There was a very nice touch, too - the volume control dial was accessible on the side of the sub, so you could dial in the correct attenuation/gain for your source. I don't remember the specs, though, so I may not be much help to ya. All I remember right now (it's late, after all...) is that I WANT ONE!! Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Mr. Drought, If you're using this setup for Home Theater use, wouldn't put the RB-3's real close to my listening position. If you are really "inches" from the rear surrounds, you might want to just stick with your 5.1 setup. You could try putting your RS-3's back there temporarily, to see if getting another pair would be advantageous, but I'm not sure the RB-3's would be good that close to you. Just how close would they be? Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Pbarge, Didn't want to be rude. I read your post a couple of days ago, but I've not heard the ic-8000's so I couldn't reply. I see that nobody else has either... We're not ignoring you. I'm just not familiar with that particular speaker. Have you heard these speakers, and how much are they? That may help us in guiding you. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

I hate to jump on the "me too" bandwagon, but I've also had the DD version of SPR at home (rental from Blockbuster). I noticed a *definite* improvement in separation and sound quality with the DTS version I bought. Now, I always try to get the DTS version, if one is available. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

While I was writing my "go with the WD surrounds" response, HornEd must have been writing his "go with point source surrounds" response. I don't mean to sound like I was contradicting him intentionally! I'd love a room with matching speakers all around, but there's no way I could fit it. This summer, in Hope, we spent some time in the Klipsch theater room. Like HornEd said, there's something to be said for lots of "traditional" surrounds. The Klipsch room had eight Heresies (what is the plural spelling?) as surrounds... ahhh. Nirvana... But, in my meager media room, I had to make a compromise. I've got LaScalas up front with a Heresy II center. The RS-3's, although not a perfect tonal match, sound great with the front speakers on HT stuff. In most cases, it's more important that the front array of L-C-R speakers match tonally. There's some leeway on the surrounds. I still think you'd be very happy with the WD speaks, but YMMV. I'd make the usual "try out both and see what you like" suggestion, but that's not always possible when your'e talking about multiple surrounds in your particular environment. Tough spot to be in... You could always go with a pair of WDST's for HT and add a set of directs for music. Or you could go with directs, and if you didn't like them you could put them in another room. Of course, if these are the toughest choices we're faced with then we are truly lucky! Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

STL, Gil's reply is, as usual, thorough and dead-on accurate. I might only dare to add that, although the preferred surround placement is as Gil noted, there are some times when the room won't permit ideal placement. One nice thing about the Klipsch wide-dispersion setup is that, in a pinch, the speakers allow a great deal of flexibility in placement. Their very wide dispersion pattern even works with one surround placed on a side wall and one on a back wall (not ideal, like I said, but they can overcome room placement obsacles like windows or arches). You could even place them on the ceiling over your head, pointing straight down, if you had to (mounted with the horns front-to-back, if you can picture that). You don't have this flexibility with with dipole speakers with a null area. As far as the second question goes, most people seem to prefer WD speakers for HT and direct radiating speakers for music. Some receivers and preamps even permit both options. I've got four RS-3's (two side and two rear) for HT, but two Heresy II's for music surrounds. My stuff's not yet installed in the new room, but that's the plan anyway. Since you're primarily a movie watcher, I'd go with the WD surrounds. Best of luck, Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Hey DD, I don't mean to sound like "ditto", but I was also going to suggest trying the direct mode, if the 3300 has it. If your 3300 acts like the 5800, then the sub and speaker settings are stored by input mode (like you said), but there are also separate settings for the direct mode (or whatever they call it...). By using the Direct mode (with the sub off) for your music enjoyment and the DD/DTS modes for HT, you may be able to accomplish what you want. This is exactly what I'm doing, so I've got the sub on during DVDs but off during music play. Of course, the direct mode only works in stereo so I don't think there's a convenient way to have your sub on during 5.1 movies, but off during 5.1 music (like that new Diana Krall disc you got). Actually walking over and switching off the sub is far too much work! Give the direct mode a try, if you've got it. If not, you can always pack your 3300 up and pay the shipping to me so you'll have the freedom to buy another model! What are friends for? Ross Oh, BTW MR. Acevedo: Welcome to the forum! ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Mr. Stiff, Can't I just call you "Working?" I can't speak towards the Sony, but I can tell you that I don't think you could go wrong with a K-Horn/Denon 5800 combination. I've got LaScalas with my 5800, and I'm in heaven. I could only dream of Horns (or Jubilees) with my 5800! You'd be a lucky man... I've found the 5800 to be very musical - warm, yet dynamic and accurate. It has every feature I'd want and only a couple I don't need. For HT, too, it's outstanding. The 5800 is so good that several of the well-experienced AVS Forum members have traded various separates for a 5800, and I've read of many others using the 5800 as a pre-amp (not that I could imagine needing more power with my Klipsches!!). I'm no Denon whacko. I've used and enjoyed other brands. But, I'm a believer in this receiver. Regardless of what you buy, you've got many forum members jealous of your speaker purchase! Enjoy them. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Hey Boa, Sorry the screw-in-the-pin thing didn't work. If it's solid, then it may require "surgery." Wish I could have helped. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Yeah, and then to confuse things further the Heresy and Heresy II are part of the Heritage line (the "orignal" PWK series). ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Hey Bart, This BB *is* a good place. The most friendly one I've seen yet, so please lighten up! Seriously, I know I would have gladly responded if I had seen your post. You happened to post during a transition time on the BB (the upgrade of the site) and I know that for several days I was unable to access the BB. I just plain never saw your post until now. Sorry from us all, Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Ed, Check out these threads: http://www.klipsch.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/001101.html http://www.klipsch.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001818.html I, personally, am incredibly happy with my Denon. I'm a Denon convert (from Yamaha) with my Klipsch and I couldn't be happier. Not that you could go wrong with either one. I highly doubt that there will be a 5801 soon. Denon's releasing a DPL II upgrade for the 5800 this summer - not something I'd expect prior to a new flagship release. Although I could certainly be wrong, I think if there was a valid 5801 rumor it would have been discussed on the unofficial Denon 5800 site at: http://pub7.ezboard.com/faussiedvdandhtforumdenonavr5800informationforum Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Colin, I'm pretty sure your question was rhetorical, but just in case it wasn't I did a search of my original post on this article. The magazine was Audio Visual Ideas, or something similar, and I posted about it in February. Not sure which issue, but it would be pretty close to that date. This was NOT, fortunately, the other magazine that I bought at about the same time that described a BOSE speaker system in their article about setting up the ideal home theater... gaaaack. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."