Chris A

Colin, If you were talking to me, and since I'm already running two Jubs in full corners (see profile), I don't think that would help very much. But if you are talking generically, then I think that I get your point. I believe that Floyd Toole mentions this technique in his articles on HTs as a way of avoiding the effects of room modes. Chris

Well, It's very interesting how the subject of horn-loaded speakers dovetails so nicely into the subject of room acoustics: I tried out the idea of a barrier behind my listening position (my room is ~4.7 w x 12 l x 3 h metres, and I listen about 4.5 m back from the front wall). I stacked four "super bass traps" so that the top was of the stack about 1.8h and about the same width, and about 0.75m behind my couch. All I can say is that I would have to reprogram my XTi amplifier EQ to back off on the low end by ~3-6 db if I left those traps where they are now. I also tried using just three traps at 1.2 M height and got about half of that effect. [] Chris

Michael, I added two Cornwalls last Christmas season and I had the RC-62 center (the biggest thing that my room could handle in front of the bricks). I'm using two XTi-1000s to drive and do EQ for room correction (leaving one channel idle for the time being). That makes 5 speakers when you add the Jubs...It sounds pretty good in HT mode...[H] Come on by sometime for a listen when you're through these parts again... A picture: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/4/1208197/Jubs%20in%20den%20with%20CWs.jpg Chris

I reckon his neighbors heard it a block or so away, too..(good golly...that's LOUD...call OSHA).

Rich,My XTi-1000s pretty much run on natural convection (i.e., fans off...) unless I'm really rockin' & rollin' or I'm playing a movie that has a lot of LFE in it (like Iron Man on Blu-Ray, etc.)--and at realistic volumes. I found quite by accident that mounting the XTi's on a rack (you've seen the picture) that is at a bit of an angle, i.e., the front of the units higher than the backs, makes a big difference in whether or not the fans run. When I had the four XTi's sitting on top of one another and flat, separated only by solid spacers, the two XTi's biamping the Jubs would turn their fans on quite a bit. Note that I can't hear the fans turn on (when they do)-- just when they carry on after a big passage until the amps cooled down. Chris

One approach might be to construct a small false corner (actually half of a false corner) for your right speaker to give it more connection on the lf end to the room boundaries. However, the most intriguing thought would be to place a backstop room divider just behind your listening position - with its top as high as you might like to go. That would certainly have a positive effect on your bass response. The larger, the better, but a backdrop the size of the couch (but taller than your head while seated) may be good enough. I'm thinking about the movable backdrops used on stages for orchestras, bands, and choirs, but in this case, you might like to have some acoustic damping material on it. Just a straight-wall backdrop would be sufficient. Of course, if you live with a "wife-unit" this may be a difficult thing to do. However, I don't think it's impossible and it may actually help set off the room a bit more as a conversation area. "Just a wild thought." Chris

The bass traps will remove energy from ~175-500 Hz - mid-bass. They will help with room "boom" issues, help to smooth out the sensitivity in listening position (i.e., moving your head by small amounts in x-y dimensions and hearing big differences) and help to EQ the overall response. The deep bass will be unaffected by virtually anything that you do - the shape and dimensions of the room will determine its deep bass response. That's the reason for advice to move your listening position to hear deep bass. Chris

I would guess that you are sitting or standing in a strong floor-ceiling room mode (i.e., 1.3 metres, 0.9 metres, etc. above the floor or down from the ceiling). If true, I would move my listening position to some other height, and possibly your x-y position in the room. You could be sitting at a double or triple null point. Having the LS's in the corners is good - you are coupling to the lf room response, thus picking up bass extension and smoothing overall bass response. Chris

Rich, I know of at least three likely suspects: Wrinkles, BHendrix, and I believe Islander are Jubscala aficionados. You could send them personal messages through the forum to get their attention if they don't reply here. Chris

Thanks guys. Once again, this is just the kind of discussion that I was looking for. I'll take a look at your suggestions. Stereo-1.5 watts biamping a TAD 4002 on top and KPT-KHJ-LF (twin K-31s) on bottom may be enough with 106+dB/(Watt-m) overall sensitivity: however, Mr. Deneen makes a point. I'll mention it again: I use my system as much or more for HT as for two-channel operation. Multi-channel SACDs and DVD-As are presently breathtaking at hand volume with the CW surrounds (even while using PA amps), but you probably already knew that... BTW I'm also looking at Nelson Pass SS designs. Lots of interest and discussion in that area online.

Thanks Josh. That's the kind of info I'm looking for. If you can recall the model or brand of any class A amps that you didn't like, I'd also like to know that, too. Chris

Dean, I truly appreciate your opinion, however, I do believe that the response that I already have gotten above did help--without having to take a "bite". For those that cannot verbalize the differences between their equipment choices, then my response might be: maybe those folks don't really care what they are listening to - but rather how much it costs, what name is on it, and whether or not it glows in the dark. Memetics is truly an interesting subject. I prefer linear electronics, not something that is described as "warm". I had "warm" for a many years with other gear (especially when my hearing was that of a teenager - when I could clearly hear fluorescent lights and sync frequency of analog TVs), but I presently do not prefer "warm". Just as a point of discussion: I believe that there's an analog in photography, "warm" vs. "neutral" - both are ligitimate goals, and have their places in our preferences. But I'm trying to keep an open mind. Chris

Here is a response that I got on another venue. Is this your experience with Class-A amps over the more common push-pull Class-AB types? "I’m just starting to collect a few class-A amplifiers to evaluate the difference. Most interesting of the collection is [...edited...]. It is switchable between 95 W/ch class AB, or 25 W/ch class A. I just unpacked that this weekend. So this is a work in progress.The other place where class-A SS is well regarded is in the bass response. The difference between the Parasound (class A up to 15 W) and my receiver is obvious at average listening levels. It just sounds more natural to me, smoother, easier on the ears." Just as a point of departure, here are definitions of basic linear amplifier types: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier#Class_A I would assume that most of your tube or "valve" amplifiers are running class A but that is not necessarily certain. Maybe to open up the conversation a bit, how many of you are running class-A preamps? Can you hear any difference? Chris

Okay the $640 question (and really not an easy one, IMHO): Since I haven't had a Class A amp hooked up to my [large corner horns], under what conditions do you hear the most difference between a Class AB and Class A (ss or tube) amps on your corner horns? Is it "impulsive source material" like cymbals and drums, or is it non-impulsive rich overtone material like string orchestras or piano? How loud are we talking when this occurs (in approximate db© units, i.e., 70, 80, 90, 100, etc.)? Is anyone using non-class A amps (le.g., class D) with their corner horns? Chris

I think the best answers you can get on these subjects are to be found at: http://www.dcchomes.com/Gregsaudio.html

A follow-up (from Audioholics): "This single dual 8" driver tapped horn sub blows away any sub or subs I have heard in my room (or anywhere). That would include dual Velo DD-18's, quad JL Fathoms and dual SVS PB-13's. None of these excellent subwoofers produced anywhere near the clean tactile bass that the single THSPUD does...It is too bad that Danley isn't a better marketing company as they really have something here...The Danley THSPUD gets five stars from me. If you ever get the chance to check it out please do."

Well, I'm a little surprised that the following subject didn't come up yet: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/TH%20Spud%20page.pdf Note the sensitivity (94 dB) of the TH-SPUD, however the flatness of its frequency response is eye-popping - down to 18 Hz. Why? Low distortion, guys...that is the hallmark of the KHorn and Jubilee (KPT-KHJ-LF) bass: horn-loaded bass bins that will take you down to sub-30Hz territory if you put them in the right place in the room. Low distortion. It's a big deal if all you listen to is music. (It also makes a big difference with movies, too, but that's another story.) I haven't heard one of those Danleys yet (and I'm not sure my wife is interested in my listening to one). My guess is unless you are listening to U571 several times a day at "hand volume", this tapped-horn sub will probably satisfy even the most bass-addicted aficionado on the forum, all for a couple of big ones (i.e., $'s) and you're done. I know that it is ~$Khorns, but this should do ya for your Belles. You can put the Belles almost anywhere you want. P.S., I'd try the SPUD in a corner instead of sitting on top of it, etc., etc. Chris

The speaker under test had identical dimensions to the Cornwall (I)... excerpts from Corner Speaker Placement by PWK.pdf

Joe, I would think that 14 gauge zip strip (2-strand indoor power cable) --the cheapest thing you can find-- will work. However the cheapest insulation might deteriorate after 20-30 years. If anyone tells you anything else--they want to spend your money... "No kidding." Chris

That sounds like at least a speaker wire problem to me. The only cheap stopgap measure might be to twist the wires that you have into (at least) 1 turn per every 5-10 cms (edit - I'm talking about twisting axially, not making loops in the wire...). If you are really getting as much bleedthrough as you say, you may have to get fully shielded cables for everything that is analogue: pre-amp to amp connections, speaker cable, etc. You might also think about power supply RF filters. Disconnect one cable at a time upstream of the amplifier, then check for bleedthrough. If the problem is severe, you might have to find temporary RCA plugs for those connections to your preamp or amp that you have disconnected. Sorry for the poor prognosis here - but you describe a difficult problem that I've also dealt with, albeit many years ago. Chris

Khorn "false corners" are pretty commonly used. PWK used them himself: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/96656/977678.aspx#977678 http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/33966.aspx?PageIndex=1 http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/53737/516349.aspx#516349

Richard, I also acquired a full set of the Ken Burns DVD series called "Jazz" (Wynton Marsalis is a de facto host) that will potentially thrill your F-I-L with stuff that is even older than '30s-'40s big band. I know that I got an education. My old man is one of those "big band only" guys that got stuck in the '40s and early '50s (i.e., very little in the way of progressive bop in small ensembles except perhaps the MJQ). After he watched what he wanted, he handed them back to me and said, "...I guess that there really IS a difference between swing and jazz...". No arguments since then about the "definition of jazz". (This is just great...I wished that Burns had done the series in the early '70s instead of the '90s, then I would've gotten a little more respect for my Mahavishnu Orchestra, Herbie Hancock, and Chicago/BS&T LPs...) Chris

http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1243788662/ref=sr_nr_n_0?ie=UTF8&rs=130&keywords=big%20band%20movies&bbn=404276&rnid=404276&rh=n%3A130%2Ck%3Abig%20band%20movies%2Cn%3A508528

Some good ones can be found here: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/20164.aspx?PageIndex=1 Some other good ones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Engineered_Album,_Non-Classical http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Engineered_Album,_Classical Now, the bad stuff: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/101082/1019386.aspx#1019386

If your combination dining+living room has no break in the walls, then I would tend to advise you think about a larger subwoofer than one for 200 sq ft, although maybe not for the full 400 sq ft. However, I believe you will soon wish that you had more subwoofer(s) if the two rooms are actually one room. Another factor to think about is the amount of acoustic liveness in both rooms. At the low frequencies of a subwoofer, acoustic absorption is usually not a factor but nooks and hallways can significantly affect low frequency coverage. Since your combined room could be roughly square (if I read your dimensions correctly), you are probably going to have issues with "room modes" or standing waves that will require that you locate your seating position away from the 1/2, 1/3, and 1/4 room dimensions (i.e., length, width, and height). I assume that your combined room ceiling height is about 9' (versus 4.5 feet) from your description above. Higher is better, and 9 feet is actually much better than 8 feet. I recommend putting your sub(s) in a corner, not along a wall or out into the room. There are good articles on this subject. If you don't experience enough bass, I would think about moving your listening position rather than moving the subwoofer out of the corner. Chris