maxg

Thanks for the vote of confidence John. Lets just say that I can tell the difference between someone drifting off into a coma and someone drifting off into a music induced reverie. On another note it is nice to see people getting emotional about their music rather than just their systems. Just for reference a recording I would recommend very highly is Blue Train on Blue Note recordings featuring John Coltrane. I would rate this as one of the "closer to live" recordings that I have and the music is simply sublime - perfect for winding down at the end of a hard day - wife and baby asleep, Glenfidich with ice, nestled into a leather clad recliner and just the tubes for illumination. Of course, in the far off pre-baby days, that would have been accompanied by a fine cigar to really get that smokey atmosphere going but such is the progression of life....

Offensive it aint! Funny it is!!! Very clever....

As with most people here I would agree that the speakers are closer to the core of the system than amplification. However, a better speaker may or may not be better in your specific setup and in your specific room. I would say that in many ways you could argue that room accoustics are more important than the speaker itself. A KHorn is a better speaker than, for example, a Heresy 2, but if you are in a room that is a 10 foot cube the Heresy's may well sound better in there than the Horns. In my opinion choosing your speakers is a function of selecting which will fit better into your listening environment and give you the sound you are looking for. Once you have chosen the speakers for the room that is usually only the first step in the long haul towards getting the sound you want. Even with Klipsch speakers, which are relatively easy to drive, the selection of amplification can have a dramatic effect on what you get out of them. Got the speakers you wanted? Got the ampification? Want to talk about source? Maybe not here but the differences of source are usually even more dramatic than the differences of amplification. And we still havent got onto the thorny subject of the type of music you want to listen to. Asking a pair of Quintets to reproduce an orchestra on their own is a bit much but if all you are listening to is solo voice then they might well do at a pinch. My take? Balance! Properly matched components, sympathetically chosen for, and placed in, your listening environment stand the best chance of producing the best sound. Badly matched components, similarly, can sound dreadful, however much they cost.

Scrolling down the posts in this forum I see, often heated discussions on crossovers, transformers, drivers, cabinets and just about every component in a speaker / audio system, but very little on music. Last night we had some friends round and the system was playing quietly in the background (as quietly as my system can anyway). Every now and again each person present drifted off into a music induced reverie only to rejoin the conversation some time later. This was despite the facts that no-one present: 1. could design a crossover. 2. even knows what a cross-over is. 3. knows how my tube amps actually work. 4. can explain why a TT sounds so good. 5. could identify any of the drivers in the speakers. ...... the above represents just the start of what could be a very long list. Somehow all of the above just aint that important unless you are a builder of such things. Do any of you guys actually enjoy listening to music?

You are a lucky man Jim. If my wife ever decides to post on this forum I suggest you all wear hard hats and dig foxholes. The nicest comment I get out of her these days is - Yes dear - but turn it down!! In that gentle purring voice that only wives and grizlies can manage.

Dubai, I dont know your cartridge but 3.6 grammes seems a trifle heavy. Most carts these days seem to operate at 1.8 to 2.5 grammes (mine is 2.1). Did you try even lower settings before settling on the 3.6 you have now? You should note that I am really out of my depth here. When I bought my table it was on condition that the guy that sold it set the damn thing up (azimuth / vta etc. etc.). When Christos Skaloubakos and Arco came over they verified the settings for me and concured that he had done a good job. Congrats on the bravery of being so hands on - I try to avoid it - usually the repairman says something to the effect of "its $x to fix the original problem and and extra $2x to fix Max's repairs." Enough said!

After digesting the sonic benefits of longer cables as opposed to shorter ones the concept of break-in for components is hardly a giant leap Actually I would expect that most people would have less of a problem with TT break-in as a concept than for other items. Anything that has moving parts can be expected to go through some period of settling (most of us observe a run-in period for cars afterall). With TT's, which are largely mechanical devices there are bearings, belts and motors to run in quite aside from any more dubious claims to electronic run-in. Anyway - put me down as a believer in run-in periods.

OK - I am a bit confused as to what this box is/does. Do you connect the Cd player via a digital connection to this box and then out to the amp via analogue? If so then this is an external DAC and not a particularly new tweek. If it is a filtering unit only then I assume it connects on an all analogue circuit. Finally if it connects all digitally then I am really confused... Any pointers?

37 all day...

Just as an update the first report on the meet at Tony's and my houses are now up with pics at http://aca.gr/meet02-6.htm. For anyone that is interested....

Deang, Well if you have switched from Maggies to RF7's then I think that probably proves without a doubt that the hardness issue can be overcome sufficiently. You may indeed be the only person to have done it!! So the question is - how? What's the secret? You hint at room/speaker interaction as being a possible solution - did you make any special treatments to the room? Was it just luck? In all honesty I have only heard the RF7's in shop demo's so the setups were less than ideal. I did hear them, however, in comparison to other similar floor standing speakers and to be honest they came off second best - even to the RF3's. The local Klipsch retailer has the whole RF range plus other speaker manufacturers. I have been round several times to listen (there is a women's shoe shop next door - its kind of a sanctuary!!). I suppose the fact they are being driven by SS amplification (Rotel 1091) doesnt help of course.

OK Dean....how do you deduce that???

Dubai, Greek copies of DSOTM are not usually that difficult to find here. If I come across one I will grab it and let you know (typical price is less that 10 euros). It was difficult for most people to comment on the speaker change as most never got to hear the system with the Heresy's. Arco, on this forum, had heard the system with the Heresy's and commented on the massive improvement in my sound since the last time he was here. Sadly, as is always the case, the speaker change was not the only one I have made so he could not be sure how much of this was down to the speakers. FWIW - in my opinion the improvement through the speaker change alone was significant.

A selection of the recordings played as promised are: Bert Kaempfert, Africaan Beat - Living Stereo recording 1962 Rossini, Barber of Seville - 180 gramme recording Blue Train - Blue Note recording Dark Side of the Moon - Pink Floyd - Greek Recording The Wall - Pink Floyd - German recording Dave Bruebeck - Take Five (180 Gramme) Janis Joplin - Pearl - Greek Recording Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto - Mono Recording - Montreaux Wagner - Extracts from the Ring of the Neibelung - Mono recording (RCA) The Animals - Greatest Hits - Greek Recording (ANT1) Marvin Gaye - What's Going On? - 180 Gramme recording Stevie Ray Vaughan - In Step - 180 gramme recording Dean - Sorry - not a big fan of the RF7 - yet to hear it play sweet enough for me to live with!!

---------------- On 10/21/2002 8:14:51 AM arco wrote: Hi Max and many many thanks for being such a good host! What happened (finally...) to the food stock and all these beers? ---------------- 10 starving refugees arrived from tony's house and helped solve the problem!!!!

Warning - this post may come across as something of an ego trip. Apologies for that - I am feeling rather proud right now!! Well its all done and dusted now. They came, they listened, they made positive comments and constructive critisms, they ate, they drank and their comments got better and better as the booze flowed. Overall the reactions were a riot. Most had come direct from Tony's house so we ran kinda late finishing at about 1 rather than at the more normal 10 - 11. (I got off lightly it seems - the last people left Tony's house at 3!!) I am not up to sorting out the pictures and the reports just yet (one hell of a headache as I write). Headline comments include: 1. 3 people thought the treble response was off. One is of the opinion that the capacitors in the crossover need changing out (an audio consultant by trade). This is something I will investigate. 2. Everyone commented on the balance of the system and how well it all worked together. Several people commented that on paper the system held little or no interest for them but they were so glad they came to see what was possible for such a small investment. 3. No-one could believe how well the little project played, more importantly - no-one thought it worth my time and money to upgrade the TT anytime soon. 4. Arco is absolutely determined to get me to test out his 300B amps despite saying how massively improved the overall sound was. 5. 5 people were totally stunned by the amps I have now (in contrast to Arco - at $600 for a pair of KT88 monoblocks they were of the opinion that it would be difficult to beat the performance for considerably more $$$). 6. 4 people want me to help them choose a sub. Everyone commented on the seemlessness of the integration and they all fell off their chairs when I turned it off. 7. 6 people want me to come over to their house to hear their system. One of these has Lowther Horns and used to own Sansui's many years back driven by 300B's (!) He was the most complimentary visitor of all and actually told me he prefers some aspects of the way my system plays over his own (primarily voice and bass). As he is a gentleman well into his 60's I would guess he is less sensitive to the treble than others - see item 1 above. 8. A whole bunch of people want me to take them vinyl shopping. The responses to the selection played was staggering. No-one could believe that I have been collecting vinyl for only a few months. The gentleman with the Lowthers actually wants me to choose vinyl for him despite his being a collector for 40 years!! 9. One group of 4 people spent most of the evening running from one room in the house to the other shouting back how good the system sounded from wherever it was they were at the time. 10. 5 people want me to bring a selection of my vinyl to their house for them to listen on their own systems. Several of them have excluded mono recordings from their collections to date and now want to get some fast. 11. Everyone who had come from Tony's refused point blank to draw any comparisons - all saying the systems were as different from each other as it was possible to be. As one of them described it Tony's is a typical audiophile system - you have to sit in a single location in the listening room in silence with no distractions. My system on the other hand can be listened to anywhere in the house and is - in his words - the ultimate party system (I was playing with the volume dial at around 3 o'clock at the time - guess 105-110 dB at my usual listening position. From memory Marvin Gaye - What's going on? was spinning at the time. I will post in reply to this thread links, pics etc. once they are ready. I will also post the list of albums played for those interested. Overall it went about as well as it could have done. I feel that so many people have vindicated my purchasing decisions I could not be happier.

Max Goodman I dont fit into your Db because I am not in the US My state is therefore best described as horizontal and in recovery from the ACA meeting at my house last night. My equipment can be found from the link in my sig (are they working now?) Oh that link is out of date - will provide a better list once my head stops pounding. Sumary of the meeting - whiskey, beer and wine and it all sounded fine. Proper summary and pics to follow in 2 channel forum. Where are the aspirin?

Arco, As I have no idea about any of these amps pick me out a nice pair of monoblock 300B based amps and we can share the shipping costs. Maybe we can get Tony in too - as his Accuphase is so unreliable. Think we should bring this up at the meet - maybe others are in to this...

There are 2 major problems with that system as I see it: 1. The cost. God only knows how much that lot was. 2. The space. You really do need a major mansion for the amps alone. Of course the owner is obviously in the fortunate position of having plenty of both money and space. Ah well - the stuff of dreams I suppose - as usual I cant help wondering how it sounds...

Fortunately I have managed to eradicate from my mind the sound of Christos' system. If I hadn't Sunday would definitely be off!! As it is I think I will try to get people to concentrate on the vinyl (which now includes some very audiophile stuff - some really surprizing I hope) and on the value for money of the system rather than its rating within the club. The cost to me of the whole thing as it stands today was almost certainly less than the cost of the cartridge on Christos system. Of course the fact that the current speakers were free helps that analogy more than a little...

I also noticed that the TT seems to be absent from the pics.. Am I missing something - nice vinyl collection though!! I wonder how it actually sounds??

Sunday is the big day. They are all coming over to my house - well half of them are - the other half are going to Tony's (much mentioned ex KHorn owner now Quad 989 owner). Of course Tony had a major panic earlier in the week when he blew the right channel on his Accuphase but it seems the local dealer is coming up trumps and will have it ready in time. Told him not to buy that cheapo Japanese stuff.... (lol).

Nice to see the acoustic solid represented. This is the machine basic - just about the smallest unit they do! Looks cool though - ah well - one day when my ship comes in...

"Good luck,for anyone who saw the MRS,its a 700lbs monoblock amp,can deliver up to 16000W RMS into 0.5 Ohm(a mere 1KW RMS into 8 Ohms)." Hmmm - should be enough to drive even the Final 0.3's, Martin Logans, Quads, Maggies, B&W 801's etc. etc. But a bit over the top for Klipsch dont you think??? If I remember correctly the RF series have power handling up to 250 wpc continuous whilst the rest only go up to 100 watts (all at 8 ohms of course). I would have thought this Rotel rather than Krell territory - and even there not the big one (1090?) Still - always nice to have an amp with the power output of a familly car rather than 3 candles. After all - how can 3 candles make the homeless mobile?

Yup 2. I will buy that big time. Hey - I never said I was providing a means of selectiing anything. Just providiing some generic measures for the meaning of power in terms of dB. and dont talk to me about testing. You think I set out to have a stereo in every room in the house?? (BTW - anyone know a way to waterproof Heresies for use in a bathroom?? (Just kidding).