WMcD

Gee, where are the real experts to answer this question? My guess is that the model number is Heresy Industrial something. Perhaps Product, Production. You can telephone 1-800-KLIPSCH and ask to talk to Trey Canon during normal business hours. He is a very nice fellow who is a font of knowledge. Killer sense of humor, too. The people in Hope, AK will be pleased to hear from you. My guess is that there were few, if any, electrical modifications from the home unit. The box and grill were probably beefed up. Maybe your question is whether there is any factory modification incorporated in the industrial unit which compromises its best performance as a home unit. I dunno. But don't hesitate to ask Trey. Put together a list of thoughtful questions and dial. Edit and PS: Shows how much I know. Please note posting times of mine and the above. I was slow composing. Still, it might be a good idea to ask Trey for a spec sheet. Gil This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 07-08-2001 at 07:33 PM

Just to follow up on the 'error' I mentioned. In harmonic tuning the third is at 1.25 the fundamental of the chord and and the fifth is at 1.5 the fundamental of the chord. So you can see that the numbers would work out in harmonic tuning but don't quite do so in equal temperament. Gil

Sony has a showroom over on Michigan Avenue, here in Chicago. There is a lot of Mini-Disc equipment on display. So they are still keeping some confidence in the technology. Gil

Ray, I is good to read that someone else has had similar worries. I noticed that the tight cable connectors had scraped a layer of oxide off the mate on the receiver. But like you also observed, it is at the risk of physical damage. Also, I've looked at the claims on the website about Monster Cable. They seem to imply there is a different velocity factor for bass and treble in ordinary cable, and that ordinary cable is noisy. I'll be happy to make a purchase if these claims can be substantiated. Until then, I've got my little yellow button. Edit PS: I can't deny what worooo says since I'm not there. It seems odd though. I'll keep an open mind particulary since he is not making a buck off the stuff. Gil This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 07-06-2001 at 09:07 PM

Jim, I can appreciate the politics. Let's get some input from our side. But there is no defense to flamers. It is like getting involved in a stink contest with a skunk. Ya can't win. Thinking about it. If an acquaintance announces, this is a really great restaurant, readable book, or a good movie, I really liked it; if you want something enjoyable, check it out. Gee, the fellow is happy and is sharing a good experience. On the other hand, if someone button holes you and bad mouths a restaurant, book, movie; it is pretty offensive. We naturally suspect that such flamers are setting themselves up as a critic and has some other agenda. Probably this is a miserable person who is spreading misery. Perceptive readers probably recognize it as "Hate Mail". Gil

For me, late 60's Heathkit with an AR turntable. Gil

As you point out, this is an easy mod and is not going to hurt anything. Do observe the polarity so that you don't inadvertently wire the treble and bass out of phase. I have not seen a real justification for this. My guess that someone reasons the current drawn by the woofer causes a voltage drop in a feed line, and somehow this effects the signal to the tweeter. Therefore, it is better to have a separate feed line to the tweeter. I don't buy it. But there is no harm. Gil

mdeneen made some very good points. For the record, I'd like to point out that even perfect wire is going to have some inductive effects. There is a magnetic field caused by the flow of current. I suppose capacitance can be reduced if the conductors are separtated. I see that Klipsch (Indiana) is touting special wire in internal connections. Grr. A far cry from the old days of Klipsch (Hope). OTOH, we haven't seen Klipsch saying it makes a difference. Just hype in my book. John A. puts forth a very rational approach. Use the cheap stuff the first time round. If you have the money and inclination to go with something expensive later, well, no harm done by the initial, minimal, investment. I had an experience last weekend. A good friend bought a new CD player and some higher priced RCA plug type interconnects. One channel wasn't working. Amplifier failure or CD player defect were suspected. I spent some time checking things out in the back of the rack. A real puzzler. The joker in the pack turned out to be the new cables and connectors. The collar on the plugs were so tight that it was physically difficult to get them to engauge the RCA female on the unit. You meet physical resistance, but they're not engaged. It was a bit of concern that the physical force necessary might damage the connections on the amp and CD player. Of course this is not to say that all high tech connectors have this problem. However, it has never been an issue with the cheap RCA connectors which come with a given piece of electronics. IMHO, the money spent on high priced interconnects would be far better invested in a piece of electronics or media you don't have yet. E.g. you could buy a DVD player or dozens of CD's. Regards, Gil

Gee, you haven't gotten any replies. Also, we don't know much about the original set up, or where you want to go. It might be that the Fishers were in a sealed box originally. If so, about the best you can do is make sealed boxes of the same volume. At least then you're re-creating the same environment the designer had in mind. Could well be done. But you could just as well use the original box. It is not going to be practical to set up a system which has bigger and better bass response using these drivers. At least not without a lot of measurements and caluculations, including expensive equipment and big ramp up in your technical knowledge. Even then, you are probably up against a brick wall of the limitations of the drivers. It is a pleasant notion that one can take the drivers out of an old design and tinker together something equivalent to a modern sub. However, that is seldom possible. Kinda like making a new Camaro out of an old Chevy, in the back yard. The issue would be to design a cross over network. The Parts Express catalog has some elementry designs which you could use. Order the catalog from the website. It is not impossible that you design a cross over to cut off frequencies above 80 Hz and feed it with an amplifier. This all would be a bit crude and a shot in the dark. However, it would be an introduction to speaker building and modification. If you want to go that way. Frankly, I think time and money could be much better invested otherwise. If you want to build a modern sub on your own, Parts Express has the Titanic series. They'll sell you the box, the driver and an amp. A weekend project, which would be fun. The bottom line is that improvements can't be done on a shoe string budget. Sorry. Regards, Gil This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 06-28-2001 at 11:12 PM

Of course Ray is correct, as always. The problem is that the sine wave is changing in level (amplitude) over it's cycle. What point of the changing amplitude of a continuous sine wave do we take as the "voltage". What dimension measured is the best number to tell us what we want to know? By comparison, consider a circle. We could measure radius, diameter, or circumfrence. They are all inter-related. One or the other is not more true or less true. Also, what do we want to know for a calculation? If the circle is the cross section of a pipe, we might want to know the area, because that is related to how much water will flow. The area can be calculated using the square of all the above. For example: Pi (or 3.141) x radius x radius = Area. Therefore, when talking about a circle, we might measure it by area, rather than a linear dimension. Going back to the sine wave. Suppose it goes from + 4 volts to - 4 volts. That would be 4 volts "peak" or 8 volts "peak-to-peak". (Yup, the valley is called a peak.) Sounds easy. And "peak" or "peak-to-peak" are commonly used means of expressing the level, particularly the level of a voltage. You can see these on an oscilloscope. However, these expressions don't easily tell us one thing which we might want to know. That is, how much power will the sine wave voltage create when the given level of the sine wave is applied to a load. Let's assume the load is an 8 ohm resistor. Let's also assume an 8 ohm speaker is really a resistor. (Which is not true, but it is a simplifying assumption.) We know that for direct current: Power = Volt x Amps. Also by Ohm's law: Amps = Volts / Resistance. Putting those two equations together to eliminate Amps we find Power = Volts x Volts / Resistance. Note, the Volts are multiplied by itself, or squared! Also, the power equation gets us a bit closer to what we want to know: power. Also, we don't have to worry about the Amps of current, it has dropped out of the picture. If we're dealing with D.C., like from a battery, the voltage is constant. But not so with alternating current, meaning our sine wave. One thing we realize is that power is being delivered to the resistor whether the voltage is plus or minus. (Here at least, the negatives don't suck out power.) So, conceptually, we can flip over the bottom half of the sine to the top. Instead of mountains (+) and valleys (-), we have just mountains going up from zero. Couldn't we just average out this whole string of mountains to get the equivalent of the D.C. for our power equation? Nope. The power equation requires Volts x Volts. So, we really have to square the voltage at every single point on the "partially flipped" sine wave. Then we can average that (or actually, integrate the continuous function). When the math is done, we find that the effective value is 0.707 of the measured peak. This is to say, the RMS value is 0.707 of the peak of the sine. In truth, you know some of this already in a vague way. We all know we have 120 volts A.C. at our home power outlets in the U.S. (Tony, take note, 240 volts in Sunny Sal?) That is actually the RMS volt value of sine wave coming from the power company. If you looked at the "signal" on the hot wire of the outlet using an oscillosope, you'd see it has peaks of 170 volts, or 340 volts peak-to-peak. 170 x 0.707 is 120 volts RMS. (This is measured relative to the neutral wire, which should be at zero volts). In a way, it is a means of saying, "What is the equivalent D.C. voltage which would create the same amount of power to a light bulb." For that matter, the amount of power delivered to our speaker. The equivalent is the RMS A.C. voltage. In almost all cases, A.C. voltmeters are calibrated to read out in "RMS" volts. Let review that again, because it is difficult first time around, and very important: When you measure your A.C. line sine voltage with an A.C. volt meter, it says 120 volts. But that is neither the peak, nor the peak-to-peak. It is 0.707 times the peak. We're asking the A.C. volt meter to tell us the number (level) of the D.C. voltage which would deliver the same amount of power, even though the meter it is not measuring D.C. at all. Wacky, but true. On the other hand, maybe not so wacky. It saves a lot of math as set out in Ray's link. Now you say, what does this have to do with audio and amplifiers? Sales people sometimes incorrectly speak of RMS "power". I believe they are trying to say the amp will put out a certain amount of voltage over a long term. This is really continuous power. Amps can often put out higher power for short periods such as the peaks in music. Music is not a continuous sine wave. The "peaks" rise and fall. In a way, the hi-fi salesmen are not too far off base even if nomenclature is sloppy. If the amp can put out a given voltage (RMS) for a long term, that will allow the calculation of the continuous power capability of the amp. (The Federal Trade Commission stepped on the hi-fi industry decades ago. Power outputs were overstated, because they were short term peak power. Hence there was a demand to standardize measurement to continuous power, which is always lower.) While we're here, I might as well throw in something about speaker testing. Near and dear to our hearts. We've come so far. It would be a shame to not make a final step. You'll see that speaker outputs measured in, say, "98 dB at one meter distance" are often measured with a certain electrical input to the speaker. It will say something like, "2.83 volts input to 8 ohms, 1 watt". Question: Why was 2.83 volts selected? Answer: It is related to 1 watt input. First of all, that is 2.83 volts as measured by RMS, as I harp upon. Looking at our power equation again: Power = Volts x Volts / Resistance. The resistance is assumed to be 8 ohms. To get 1 watt of power input we need: 1 Watt = Volts x Volts / 8 Ohms. What is the numerical value of the "Volts" needed above to make it come out to one Watt? Obviously it is the quantity which when multiplied by itself equals 8. (1 = 8 / 8) We can make some guesses in our head: 2 x 2 = 4. 3 x 3 = 9. So, the answer is in there someplace bigger than 2 and smaller than 3. Obviously, the answer is the square root of 8. That is 2.83 volts, according to the calculator. What the testing engineer has done is measure and adjust the output of the amplifier (using an A.C. volt meter) so it is putting out 2.83 volts A.C. RMS. That creates one watt of input to the assumed 8 ohm load. Sorry this missive has been so long, I didn't have time to make it short. Too simple for some; too complicated for others; too long for all. =8^o. However, I did want to touch all the bases. Now you know! Regards, Gil

The frequencies bring up an interesting issue about why bass in music is interesting to the ear. (Im at a bit of a loss here because a borrower from my lending library has failed to return the book. No, no one on the bbs.) It has to do with the relation between chords and bass. If there is a real expert out there, comment is welcomed. H-E-L-P ! Consider a C major cord. It is made up of C4 at 261.63 Hz E4 at 329.63 Hz G4 at 392.00 Hz. But suppose we sound a bass note two octaves below the fundamental. It is C2 at about 65.41 Hz. We know that in some circumstances, there are harmonics or overtones formed of a given frequency of the fundamental note. They are integer multiples of the fundamental. So, lets look at some multiples of that bass note. 65.41 x 4 = 261.41 65.41 x 5 = 327.05 65.41 x 6 = 392.46 We see that if the bass player plunks a bass note two octaves below the major chord the lead guitar player is playing, the overtones or harmonics of that single base note align very closely with the chord. So, to some extent, the bass overtone is playing the same notes as the chord, given harmonics. Some really smart cookie figured this out 300 years ago. Why dont the numbers work out exactly? That is gonna have to be the subject of another post. Regards, Gil This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 06-27-2001 at 11:38 PM

I believe the answer is to be found at the following. http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html It is my understanding that the open E string on the electric and wooden bass is at the 41.20 Hz frequency. Therefore, it seems to me this is a good lower limit for frequency response on most speakers. On the other hand, the pedal tones on organ go lower. The table confirms what we know. Going up or down an octave doubles and halves a frequency. Does anyone know the tuning of the timpani or a parade type bass drum? Gil

Whoa, slow down. I like taking things apart as much as anyone else, and probably more so. But taking the driver apart is a little bit risky without justification. I'd suggest you switch the drivers between left and right. See if the problem follows the driver. If so, you'll have more justification for taking them apart, or going to the dealer. If the problem doesn't follow the driver, you should switch the cross overs. See if the problem follows the crossover. One good fellow here, some months ago, suggested the loose items in the room could be resonating. So if there is a lamp, picture frame, etc. That could be the cause. Seems like a remote possibility, but worth investigating. Also, check for loose items in the speaker itself like a wire, or the cross over board itself. It is worth checking all input and output connections at the amp. Usually this shows up as distortion at low levels which clears up at high levels, when it is hit with higher voltage. None the less, it is worthwhile to check. Best regards, Gil

I haven't had the problem with duplicated CDs. They skip or will not play. But you would probably know that. If you're turning up the bass knob, that might well be the problem. The numbers on the bass boost knob probably do not equate to any particular amount of gain. I know of no industry "standard." E.g. setting the knob to 5 does not equate to 5 dB boost. It could well be 7, or 8, or 10 dB. Let's assume it is 10 dB in fact. That means the bass is boosted to 10 times the power. If 3 dB it would be twice the power. If 20 dB it would be 100 times the power. All relative to the midrange level. (The math is complicated. I'll explain if requested.) 20 dB would be quite a bit of boost in the design. However, it would mean that while the midrange is creating one watt, the bass is getting 100 watts. That is "lots of watts." So, you might try to back that down. It may well be causing amp or speaker problems. BTW, are you sure the speakers are working properly? This amount of boost should sound pretty unbalanced, even if you're into disco =8^o. Is there any chance your cranking up the amp to make up for a partial speaker failure? - - - - Above we've spoken about "clipping" in the amp. The amp is complicated and each individual system has a limit. So, any one might be the first to reach its limit. Things can get worse if two are pushed to the limit at the same time. In a very general sense the amp is made up of (1) the power supply and (2) a "valve." The "handle" on the valve is the input signal. The input controls the amount of power from the power supply which is sent to the output, specifically, the speaker, through the valve. So, you see the amplifier doesn't really directly amplify the input in terms of make it louder or bigger. Rather, it is a scheme to allow the input to connect the power supply to the speaker by means of the valve. Now we must step back and think about the two components. The power supply doesn't really supply power. Rather it converts the 60 Hz alternating current (A.C.) from the wall socket to direct current (D.C.). The latter is what we get from a battery. Let's say it is 20 volts, constant, at a given current. However, when too much current is drawn from the power supply, its output is not constant, smooth D.C. This is because it uses capacitors to store up energy which can be too rapidly depleated. Keep this in mind, we'll go back to it, below at (*). The "valve" section is a semiconductor transistor or a vacuum tube. By analogy to a water valve, at some point it is wide open. So, even if you apply more twisting force to open it more, it is not going to open more. There is not going to be more flow of water even if there is more water pressure available. Here, clipping is caused because the semiconductor is saturated. This is the max output limited by the valve. It might cut off at 16 volts, even though 20 volts are available from the power supply. On the other hand, maybe the valve is a big one, but we have run out of voltage from the power supply. By analogy, the water pressure runs out even before the valve is fully open. Now we've run out of power because of limitation in the power supply, rather than a small valve. The valve could pass the 25 volts and required current, but because of power supply limits, we've run out of steam. The overall effect is usually the same in each case above. The music signal goes up to a high value or mountain top. However, the amp just runs out of steam and can't reproduce it at the output. Rather it maxes out and creates a plateau. So the mountain top is "clipped". Where does the term "clipping" come from. In truth, in labs the output of the amplifier is examined on an oscillicope. A type of visual display. The output is viewed. To the extent it looks like a mountain or a wave, it is clipped or plateaued. - - - - This is the end of discussion about hardware. Now we go into the difficult subject of how clipping of low frequencies can cause "high frequencies" which blow out a tweeter. - - - - - So, you say, what is so wrong with clipping? Can't we live with it. Doesn't sound so bad in theory. What is all this talk about clipping creating other frequencies? You have to draw this diagram in your head. What happens when you're climbing up even a mild slope (of bass) and hit a sudden plateau with a knife sharp edge? Ha. That is a rapid change. Suppose it goes from a slope of 1 in 1 (45 degrees) to a slope of zero in a very short interval when when we reach the plateau. Is that "rapid change" (at clipping) the same as creating a high frequency signal? The first impression is to say, NOPE, no way, no how. We know that a high frequency signal is a sine wave with a short period. We can squeeze 6,000 of these sine waves into a second. Or or signal of 6,000 Hertz. This doesn't SEEM akin to clipping at the knife edge. However, please consider what is the slope of the 6,000 Hz sine wave. It is changing rapidly. So, to a great extent, the sharp edge of the plateau "clipping" the bass signal is the same as the rapidly changing slope of the 6,000 Hz of the sine wave. The above can be explained by some very complicated math. It is sometimes expressed, correctly, that when a bass note is clipped (by the amp), the sharp edge creates a signal in the high frequency range which can blow out a tweeter. This is all somewhat counter intuitive. Lets do it again. Figuring backward. High frequency continuous waves change their level very quickly. So their slope changes quickly. By definition. When a bass signal changes slowly in an uphill at say say a 1 to 1 ratio, but reaches a plateau, its slope changes quickly, from 1 to 1 to zero. Therefore, this clipped bass signal changes in slope even more quickly than any high frequecy signal. Essentially, the clipped bass signal has all of a sudden become the source of a signal which is akin to a high frequency, or even a mid frequency. This is the source of the mud we hear at over load. Suffice to say that clipped bass can create so much of this signal that it can burn out midranges and tweeters. - - - - * I've been reading at the Nelson Pass website. He has an oblique comment about power supply overload. My best understanding is that when power supplies are pushed to their limits, filtering breaks down. There is no longer DC supplied, but rather AC ripple. This could play Hobb with the rest of the amp. It could be the source of low frequency, rather than high, distortion. - -- - - Also above, I've not discussed the role of feedback circuits in the amp. Or what can go bad in an overload. Suffice to say that when the amp is pushed the absolute limit, it is tough to tell what has broken down first. Happily, the engineers have built in enough safe guards so that there is no permanent damage from overloads. The overall answer is that you've got the bass cranked too high. Be kind to your amp, and speakers. - - - - - Regarding the girl friend. I'm not good at lost love. How the heck do I get into this role? Car Talk Guys do it. The Doctor is "IN". There is an odd phenomenon in love. There are two people involved. The one who is commited and loving is the one who is most hurt when the plug is pulled. Yet this hurt makes one think they are the one at fault. You've not told much about the problem. Gee, do we want to know? Going back to real basic and essential stuff. If you can sit down with the woman and talk about sex, jobs, money, children; then you can work something out. Not all at once, naturally, and not in the same place or time. If she, or you, balks on wading into it, then there is a problem of goals and communication. Be noble, be fair. Prepare to have your heart broken. Tough it out. It's a guy thing. If the significant other is not into this discussion, it is a bad sign. Give some consideration to deep psychological issues of mother and fathers, early family life. I can well understand if you feel compelled to make this "one" relationship work. That is a very good thing which keeps husbands and wives together through tough times. Hence your instincts are the best. Unfortunately, we can't turn them on or off as convenient. Sometimes these are all aimed at the wrong person. On the other hand, there may well be another woman out there for you. Yeah, hard to see right now. After "she" dumped me, I still haven't found the right one, but there have been some close calls. The investigation has been enlighening. Carry on. Disco is not the answer. Gil

There is not much traffic on this forum and I see you didn't get any takers. The moderator is Dave Welsh. Try contacting him. You'll see his name at the opening of Pro Audio the forum. In the past I've seen that recording studios use good home speakers to simulate the home environment. On the other hand, you seem to want to simulate the club scene, which itself requires more power handling than the home lines. Frankly, this simulation may require a disco in your studio. Gil

Gee, this went unanswered for a while. There is a Pro Media section of the bbs where this might be addressed by those in the know. You should also call the folks in Hope. My impression is that the Pro-Media were not designed for DJ type settings. This is an understatement. My guess is that they were very warm and the shock of the fall was the last straw. Gil

I got a snapping sound when playing Telarc recording with deep bass effects. It was using an old Sony amp of low power. It broke a fine high power EV woofer which should have been good for many times the rated power of the amp. My best guess is that it is gross clipping of subsonics, or the subsonics themselves did something bad to some portion of the amp circuit. To me, it sounded like an amp problem, as if DC had suddenly been switched across the speaker. But I am often wrong. Usually clipping shows up as gross distortion of everything especially the midrange and we hear the fuzz and gross distortion from the amp. As described by others. Sort of like a rock concert when everything it turned up to the max. I suspect there is something else goes on when very low bass is mixed in the recording out of proportion to the rest. It can be 20 dB higher. We don't hear the characteristic fuzz of distortion of the midrange. Yet the amp is very unhappy. Another explanation is that a large bass signal is driving the bass diaphragm until it bumps up against the magnet structure. The amp is not overloaded, but the speaker is. There can be something like a "clank". The numbers you mention are pretty much relative to the amount of amplification the amp is providing overall. However, if the source has big bass notes or sound effects, the amp could still be driven to the max. The same for the Heresy. Give us some more information. Pops and clicks are sometimes the results of electrical equipment switching on and off. E.g. the refrigerator or air conditioner compressor. Gil

Okay, we hear your . . . lack of sound . . . pain. Please do call customer service immediately. The fine folk in Hope will be more than pleased to help. Really. Also, there is a Pro Media section of the bbs. We're the home hi fi section here. However, if the unit doesn't work at all, right out of the box, no need to post frustration. Pick up the phone. They will help you. Gil

I have my homebuilt units on castered wheels which I bought at Home Depot. Bass is okay. You might consider this. If you don't want to put holes in your K-Horn bottoms, you might cut a piece of 3/4 inch plywood, mount the wheels on the bottom of the plywood and sit the K-horn on top. Certainly this will keep things dry if you have more water. Also, they make moving the beasts much more easy. Edit and PS. After thinking about it, my set up is not quite like yours. I have the backs closed off so there is not quite the problem of a seal at the back. And that is a definite issue from the bass standpoint. I'd suggest a piece of 3/4 inch plywood (or two), cut to the same dimensions as the bottom of the the bass horn. That would give you some piece of mind. Maybe in a mild flood there would still be some wicking up the plywood, but painting it might help make it less absorbant. You might now have rubber gasket at the tail board. If you put the units on any sort of a pedistal, a similar seal could be improvised at the bottom if there is a gap. The biggest fall back would be to construct a false corner as is shown in a "Dope From Hope". (I'll send you a copy by mail if you e-mail your postal address. And yes, PWK has these in his living room.) It is built up out of 2 x 4 and wallboard or plywood for an overall thickness of about 5 inches. But then add a bottom of the same design. Then the structure would be placed in the corner with the speaker inserted. A big project, but close to factory approved and will prevent damage from a four inch flood. They might even improve sound quality. Gil This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 06-22-2001 at 10:12 PM

I purchased a K33V from Audio Classics. I paid $110 plus $14 shipping. I'd be happy to sell it for $110 o.b.o. You pay shipping but I'm glad to carry it over to UPS. I have never installed it and it doesn't figure in my future plans. Now maybe some one out there would like to build a center channel for their Heritage. Please e-mail me. It needs a good home. A trading post is a great idea. However, dealers would have to be excluded. We could be decended upon by strangers dumping goods which went through unknown channels. It could get ugly. On the other hand, amateur magazines have long had trading posts for individuals and I don't see too many gripes. Also, may thanks to the good Klipsch people for providing the forum for so many questions, issues, and general discussion. We've been good citizens and no one from above has stepped on us. The system works. Regards, Gil

Yeah I was going to advise that you do pay a premium for separates. So a receiver is a reasonable choice. You have my sympathy about the crowded marketplace. Every major manufacturer seems to cover ever $100 increment of price point starting at $300. I know Sony doesn't get may fab reviews here, but I think it is a good a product overall. You might consider one of the Sony units if it has the fancy remote with touch screen. That might make it easier to fool with the CD player and receiver. Also, see if your dealer could bundle a DVD player as part of the $1,000 limit. That might give more enjoyment than a single purchase. Of course that is tricky issue. Progressive output DVD players are coming on line so they might be a good investment if you go to HDTV. On the other hand, if you go HDTV in a year, a progressive scan DVD player is gonna be a lot cheaper by then. And if I may stand on my soapbox, don't spend a lot for cables. I now reliquish my soapbox for the loyal opposition. Gil

wag, n. a person who is fond of a joke or of making jokes; on who is full of merry tricks or pranks; a humorist; a wit; a joker. I recall usually seeing it in the context of a mischievous student annoying a teacher with a bothersome or imponderable question.

All I can say is that I made the correct call to pass the question to Ray. Seriously, Ray, how did you find the quote and where does more info appear about the Rev? A heavy thinker. A good buddy at the office presented the saying: "Many a truth is spoken in jest." He was unable to cite a source. Sounds like a Shakespere quip. Or something Mel Gibson playing Hamlet would throw out. For some years I've quoted: "I'm sorry this missive is so long, I didn't have time to make it short." (As A. Hitchcock would say, drolely (sp?) it is a "common problem" with my posts.) The same buddy claimed it was from Mark Twain. I thought Shaw. I consulted all the standard reference works starting with Bartlet's (sp?). Nada, zip, nothing. Eventually I found a reference attributing it to Blase Pascal. Interesting because his gas laws come into play with our speakers. My guess is that the people who compile quotations do it only from sources written in English. Pascal wrote in French. Thanks again Ray. Gil

Whoops, Ray G. is the most classically educated among us. Ray, who first wrote, "Many a truth is spoken in jest." ? Keith has a good point; if in jest. I assumed that 1 million cycles is enough to prove break-in or not and reached a conclusion, perhaps over generalized. Some wag is gonna come forward and suggest 100 million is the break point to audio heaven. Honestly guys, I wondered if there was any merit to the claim of break in. Testing parameters were reasonable and testing was accurate. I just don't find any support. I've experienced the same subjective effect though. On a given day you come back to the same old system, and it doesn't quite sound the same, with the same recording. Then you get a new recording. The system might sound a bit off. After a few replays of the CD, it sounds great. Gremlins? Nope, some things just take getting used to. Gil

I don't know if you want a discussion of the technical complexities in a general sense. What amp is this, I recall someone was waiting for a shipment. One thing is that there a several different types of circuits and components in the amp, all of which can create heat. One overall "problem" is that most discrete semi-conductors must have an overall 0.7 volt drop across them to even get turned on. Most of the semiconductors are "biased" "on" even without an input. Even with no input, they are not turned off. There is another phenomenon which is too complicated to go into here (meaning I can't explain it either). The semi-conductors, act as "valves" to allow the flow of current where it is wanted. In some designs, this means it is switching current either (1) to the speaker, or (2) to an internal circuit. Therefore, when the speaker is driven, the energy goes to the speaker. When the speaker is not driven, the energy is seen as heating of components within the amp. Transformers, even under low load, have some losses which will cause some heating. Gil