Kevin S

All center channel speakers, except those placed directly behind the screen, rely on your eyes to "trick" your mind into believing that the sound is coming from the screen. So if you stare at the center channel, the sound will be easily localizable as coming from the speaker. So the closer to the screen the better. I keep my Heresy on the floor, next to the wall, where it was designed to perform its best.

I am extraordinarily happy with my H3's. I cannot tell you how happy I am that my ears stop just short of hearing all of the things you guys hear. And I wouldn't know what a mylar capacitor was if it bit me in the butt. Sitting here in ignorant bliss with no desire to rip open a perfectly great speaker to try to make it "better".

There was no home theater, but PWK was a big advocate of three channel stereo as well as the proper way to position speakers so that the soundstage remained stable throughout a large percentage of the room. He was not an advocate of speaker placements that required one to sit in a tiny sweet spot.

I am so sorry that I am so late to this. I have Heresy IIIs and have owned many other Klipsch seakers in the past. The key to the Heritage series speakers, IMO, is to place them as closely as possible to how PWK intended. In corners if possible, otherwise at a floor/wall junction. Sitting on the floor. Separated as widely as possible. Toed in 45 degrees. My Heresy's are flat to 40hz doing this, no subwoofer needed except for H/T. My subs crossover at 40hz and barely make a sound when listening to music.

I have subs and have used them with great success for music in the past and use them for 5.2 sound. My real point was that when placed as their designer intended, my Heresy's are not bass shy and do not "need" a sub for music. This flies in the face of an overwhelming number of Heresy posts that I have seen, most of which seem to be made by folks using the typical speaker placement strategies of today.

When I purchased my Heresy III's a short time ago, I refreshed my memory on the tenants of PWK regarding the placement of his speaker designs for proper stereo reproduction and maximum performance. Although unable to have corner placement, I spaced them wide apart, on the floor, against the wall and at a 45 degree toe in. Long story short: bass to 40hz, using the Pure Audio setting on the AVR, no subwoofers or Audyssey involved, the sound on music is just great. I have owned all of the Heritage series speakers off and on over the past 35 years or so. IMO, if you cannot place Heritage speakers as above, or in corners, as PWK recommended, you are seriously compromising their performance. Anybody that finds Heresy's bass shy needs to start from scratch on their placement. If corner placement makes them too bass heavy, do the un-audiophile thing and use your bass control to turn it down a notch or two. I had Heresy II's and got rid of them after doing all of the audiophile approved tricks that I now know were wrong. So happy to be back on the right track with these Heresy III's.

Now that you mention the proportions, the center does look thinner than the other two. But in real life, they are identical Heresy III's. Cell phone camera distortion?

I am extremely happy with the Heresy's as the mains and center channel. Although I could not put them in the corners, I have intentionally set them up the way I believe PWK would have intended them to be. Spaced wide,10 feet apart. Up against the wall and toed in at a 45° angle. According to the Audyssey room correction software in my receiver, they are 3 dB down at 40 Hz. So that is where I have crossed them over to the subs.

After about 13 years of wandering in the audio wilderness, I have recently returned to the Klipsch brand. Much has changed in the 13 years, including equipment and where I live. While my room would be appropriately called a home theater, the fact is I do not watch movies, using the home theater mostly for sports watching. In this room I listen to music far more than watch TV, and do that in 2 channel. Hence my posting in this forum. Hopefully, I have attached a photo of the view from my listening seat, showing my new Heresy III's and the JBL subs that I had already owned.. Rear surrounds are a new pair of RP-240S. It is very good to be back.

Having owned all three speakers, as well as LaScalas, I feel that the main difference is in the presentation of the bass. They all "load the room" in much different fashions. My Klipschorns and Cornwalls both got down to 35 hz or so, but the Klipschorns filled the room in a much different (and superior IMHO) manner than the Cornwalls. With certain floor/corner placements, I can get my Heresy's down to 40hz or so, but the bass does not fill the room as well as the Cornwalls. The main differences in how the mids and highs sound have more to do with the positioning of the speakers IMHO. For example, the Klipschorns mid and high horns are positioned higher than the Cornwall and Heresy, and by necessity are in the corner and toed in 45 degrees. This will again give a much different presentation than the typical Cornwall or Heresy setup. Just for fun, one day I placed my Heresy's, on their stands, in the corner and mimicked the Klipschorn placement as best I could. The height was still a little low, but I had the front of the speaker out of the corner the same distance the Klipschorn would have been, and had them in the corners at a 45 degree angle. The mid and high presentation was almost exactly as I remembered the Klipschorns. Unfortunately, keeping them this way makes the image far too wide for my H/T purposes. Frankly, a pair of Heresy's, paired with a quality subwoofer(s), which were not available in the "old" days, can get real close to Klipschorn like performance, for far less money. Also, keep in mind that PWK's recommended placement for all of the speakers I have mentioned was on the floor, in the corner, facing into the room at a 45 degree angle. IMHO, this was not only to maximize the bass output and minimize distortion, but it meant that the mids and highs of all of the speakers projected a similar "image" into the room, would have a similar frequency response balance, and therefore sounded more alike each other than different. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 This message has been edited by Kevin S on 04-30-2002 at 01:19 PM

Dean, The Stereophile magazine website has a couple of test CD's you can purchase. Most folks seem to use the analog SPL meter, thats what I have. The SVS web site has some information on what adjustments to make to the meter readings to compensate for the bass rolloff of the meter itself.

From those of us who like the Heritage products, I would suggest the following: 3 pairs of Heresy's off E-bay (L/C/R/LR/RC/RR) = +/- $1500.00 1 HSU VTF-2 subwoofer = $500.00 1 Receiver (Outlaw, Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, whatever)= $500.00 1 DVD/CD changer = $300.00 Tax & misc = $200.00 Total = $3000.00 ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000

Dean, Do you have a CD with frequency test tones on it and a sound pressure level meter? If so, or if you can get them, what I do is very simple: Play the 1khz test tone so that while the spl meter is at my listening position it reads around 75db, with the spl meter aimed up at the ceiling about level with where my head would be. I use a tripod to hold the meter. Then play the other test tones, with the meter in the same position, and read the levels on the meter that they produce and write them down. The relative level of all the frequency's you measure, when compared to the 75db 1khz test tone, gives you a very rudimentary picture of your speaker's bandwidth and frequency response. There are some adjustments that you have to make to the reading of the Radio Shack meter I use, because the meter itself rolls off the bass fequencies, so I adjust for that. There may be better meters that read flat. I think thats about it. Let us know what you find.

Gil makes a good point concerning whether or not other brands of speakers are missing their specs as badly in the S&V measurements. I do not know the answer. It is also a bit odd, IMHO, that S&V does not really point out the fact that the measurements do not meet spec, or that the measurements do not correlate with the listening impressions noted by the writer of the article. The cynic in me chalked this up to not wanting to overly ruffle the feathers of a current advertiser. The main reason this jumped out at me was that recent test on the RSW-15 and these two S&V articles were the first times that I had seen any articles where measurements were made on Klipsch speakers and the speakers missed their specs by a wide margin. And in the case of the sub, it was two different testers, both with the sub placed in the corner (which I thought would give the sub it's best chance to meet it's low end extension claims). And all of the Klipsch speakers I have owned (Klipschorns, LaScala's, Cornwalls, Heresy's, SW-15II and KG-2's) met their low end specs, in my rooms, when set up in the corners as Klipsch recommended. Anyway, we have Klipsch's answer. How about all of you Reference Series owners, have any of you tested the bandwidth of your speakers in your setups? If so, I think that there are some of us who would like to know the results and how you have the speakers set up to achieve those results. Personally, if I had set up my HSU subs and found that, even though I thought they sounded good, that they were only good to say 35hz and not 25 hz as advertised, they would have been shipped right back. Because, although you cannot make a purchase only based on specs, the specs are supposed to be a representation of what you are getting from the product for your money, and I certainly wasn't looking for a sub that only went down to 35hz. Thats enough from me. Thanks again to Bob G, and everyone else who has been responding to my question.

Bob G., Thanks for the response. I was hoping that perhaps Klipsch had contacted S&V and would have a more definitive expalanation for the actual reasons for the measurement differences, as opposed to the generic explanation given by the engineer. I've been in this hobby long enough to know that what he said is certainly true, but it does not really explain what happened in this particular test. Given that there have been at least three recent tests of Klipsch products, by two different testers, and none of them produced measured results that correlated with what Klipsch published, I would think that Klipsch would be more concerned with how that looks to potential consumers. As I have stated before in other posts, I have been an owner of Klipsch products since 1985 and have followed published test results fairly consistently. These tests are the first that I have seen where the Klipsch speakers did not pretty much meet their published specs in the independent tests. Certainly I have missed some. However, from where I sit, something has changed, either at Klipsch, or in the reviewing community. As for the trust your ears argument, no one can argue that how a product sounds to an individual is the ultimate criteria. However, if specs did not count for something, why publish them at all? (At least one well known speaker manufacturer takes this position and is villified for pulling the wool over the eyes of the unsuspecting public, who can do nothing more than trust their ears when making a purchase!) Finally, I would be very unhappy if it has been my posts which you refer to as "trashing the Klipsch brand". It is my opinion that questioning the variance between Klipsch's specs and the specs from these various tests is a legitimate question in light of the importance I have always felt that Klipsch placed on measured performance. Asking the question, which appears to have been much tougher to answer than I thought it would be, was not intended by me to "trash" anybody. Again, thanks for taking the time to respond. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000

Moon, It does not matter where on the scale your speakers volume settings end up as long as they are all balanced with each other. The balanced relationship between the speakers will remain regardless of where your main volume control is set. When balanced, where the settings end up have no affect on the quality of the sound. However, I would try to balance the speakers out in a way that you do not have to place any of them at the maximum input volume, ie: +10. Some receivers will clip the input signal at their maximum settings. For example, if the surrounds will only balance at +10 when the other speakers are at 0, I would suggest setting the surrounds at +5 and lowering the other speakers to -5. You really should get a Radio Shack SPL meter. You will not achieve the proper balance by ear. IMHO the meter and a disc with test tones are the best tweaks you can buy. They are invaluable for properly setting up speakers and subs. And they are about the least expensive as well. Hope this helps. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 This message has been edited by Kevin S on 04-21-2002 at 05:09 PM

And how about the "new" Heritage prices. Or did I miss them? ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000

Perhaps you should wait until you have your other speaker and can compare one to the other. Perhaps the one you have is not working properly. Or perhaps your impression will change when you have the two of them positioned for "normal listening. Or perhaps the high end of the speakers are not going to be to your taste. You probably just need to be patient until you receive your other speaker. Spend some time on proper placement etc. and see how it goes from there.

Very nice story. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000

Because of FM's limited frequency response, dynamic range, use of compression by most stations etc, etc, you really cannot compare Fm to CD IMHO. You need to listen to many different CD's to see if the harshness/brightness is there with all CD's, or is it just an artifact of how a couple of your CD's were recorded. And although I am not a proponent in the "sound" of cables, Radio Shack's return policy certainly makes it safe for you to get a pair and try for yourself. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000

JoshT, Yes, they are solid oak.

JoshT, How about a couple of photos, hopefully?

IMHO, none of the other suggestions, assuming you have your receiver set up correctly, could compensate for a poor room (acoustically) or poor speaker placement. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000

Seems like we need to start exploring the room and the speakers placement within the room for an explanation as to why you are not achieving the sound you expected. Your equipment is certainly satisfactory IMHO. How about some photos? ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000