MikeFord

No limits or budget restrictions, no wood working facilities of my own, but I know people. I live in the OC of SoCal. I have a KLH 12" in the living room now, a much smaller old high end (thinking Sonus?) sub someplace in a box, a ServoDrive Contrabass kit less cabinet in a box, parts for two M&K dual 12" subs in various boxes that I plan to assemble "real soon", and I am eyeing some Lab 12 and McCauley 18's I've found at dandy prices. Doing an F20 is very tempting. But I don't want to go tearing down some path that doesn't work well with the Klipsches. I like the bass on the Forte, so despite my desire to high pass them I would like the sub to retain the same character of sound and blend well.

I like my subs to do more than fill in the bottom, I like to high pass the mains at 50 to 80 hz and run all the bass through the sub. My cheesy little 125 watt KLH 12" Costco special did "ok" with my old 88 db/w speakers and simply abysmally with the Forte's (haven't tried the Heresy with them but expect no different), it just could not level match, exceeded its limits by a bunch. Now what concerns me is that while its 125 watts and cheesy, less cheese and more watts still isn't a lot more db. What is going to be a practical minimum subwoofer to use for both music and movies?

Good luck on your mods Fri, speedy recovery.

I would talk to some real wood guys in your area, then maybe "try" some of their suggestions. Are there any pieces that will come off so you could take them around with you and show people?

I've been thinking about it, more conceptually than specifically, with the idea that pro sound is the main market, and spl and efficiency are there main goals as long as some minimal level of SQ is maintained. Seems logical if the driver design goals were reversed, main goal SQ, with spl and efficiency totally secondary that some improvements for home use might pop out. OTOH if you just go with the best pro parts its pretty freaking good as is. So from a practical standpoint I think I would start with the best drivers I can afford and look mostly at mating them to the best horn I could "make" or buy. Side note I met the inventor of Ferrofluidics when he was just getting started, and was so disappointed to find out drivers were almost of no interest to them, they made their money doing sealing systems for wafer fabs. As such they had no time to spend on it, and only almost reluctantly licensed or sold product to few manufacturers.

I had a chance to buy the Quartets at a great price, but the owner was really into boom boom dance music, and despite the subwoofer I think he ran the speakers full range so that tweeters and maybe woofers had some issues. I didn't think to bring some test disc or even music of my own, so I listened, kneeled down to try and hear the tweeters, but ended up just getting a pair of KG1 for surround use. My feeling is that I might actually prefer the sound of my original Forte (not II), but could have been the room or music or subwoofer, etc. There was a set of Chorus II not that far of a drive, but they had a LOT of mods, Crites diaphragms in mid and tweeter, a new crossover, and ports in the cabinets, but price not very tempting. Lately I've seen a set of KLF20, and I think its RF83, and it all increases my uncertainty of direction. Was there something of a progression in quality, or is it more like highlights in the series with different people liking different eras? I have no idea when I would have the time, but something of an itch is growing for scratch built speakers using best drivers etc. Almost certainly I will be high passing the mains between 60 and 80 hz and using a monster subwoofer.

I think the lesson for me is don't do it. I think I could manage doing a surround, maybe even a cone and surround, but spider and voice coil, not a chance. I am curious about how the TS parameter compare before and after. Sonically is it a good move, or better to opt for a new modern speaker What were the parts costs like? Want some more broken speakers? (I'm in SoCal).

About a year ago I started looking on ebay and CL on a regular basis, and despite buying Heresy's and Forte's, I haven't stopped looking. Last week I found what looked like a great deal on a set of Quartet's, but listening to them didn't motivate me to buy them. I ended up picking up a pair of KG1 from the seller to use for either my office or surround. A few minutes ago I saw a pair of Forte II local to me at a decent price, and it sort of dawned on me that buying one of each model might not be the smartest way to sort out my own preferences. I was kind of excited to contimplate buying the Quartets since many here speak highly of them, and I do want to see how I like a Tractrix horm, but maybe I should be thinking more about Chorus II, or something with much different driver like a TAD?

I don't know if its still true, but there used to be a difference of opinion on the distance a speaker should have flat frequency response at, 1M or listening positio, the latter having a much hotter top end.

Brings back memories. Wife and I were on a trip returning along the coast from San Francisco to SoCal and stopped in a Santa Cruz for lunch in the pre earthquake outdoor mall. We found a used audio store with a pair of bronze ESL57's being played through Marantz tube gear (which wasn't for sale) and brought the Quads home. Some good times. I suggest you find someone to build some boxes for you and experiment with those and compare the results to the stock Klipsches.

I wonder if the reconed speaker would have parameters similar to the original, or be very very different?

Frat house I can't imagine it would be long before somebody trys to turn the system on, turns the volume all the way up, then remembers to hit play on the CD.

Are the coax separate voice coils for woofer and tweeter portions? I've been thinking about a coax since the first time I saw an Altec 604.

I know how big is so small its worthless. I have Forte's in an open livingroom, and the cheap 12" KLH 125w sub that was fine with my old 88/1w speakers doesn't work worth a hoot with the Forte's at any spl. I haven't really beat on it to try and get a decent blend because its so far off I consider it hopeless. I have a 2x12" I plan to give a try soon, but I'm thinking it may take something more. The 2x12 is a single push/pull cabinet, I don't agree with the stereo sub idea as a general solution, only as a possible response to a special situation or room. Forte's have a nice extended response, which makes me wonder what your goal is? For me I want some sub sonic shaking for movies, and I am undecided on exactly how I will use a sub in normal two channel music.

Subwoofer drivers are "loose" tuned for a much lower frequency and much lower efficiency. Replace the electronics (new decent panel amps are fairly cheap), or sell the speakers to somebody that wants a small sub project. Trick is they were made to be used with an 8 ohm drive amp by putting the two in parallel, which makes them a poor choice as a single driver. M&K is still around, reconstituted, but not that changed from the old designs. If you liked the subs, I would say fix them either with factory amps, or IMHO something modern from a place like parts express. How did you like them with your Forte II speakers? That is what I will be using mine with.

Free is nice, but buying a real subwoofer will work and not leave your Forte passives mucked up.

Get the free ones from a family member, listen to them for a month or so and decide if you like them or require something different. If you want something different, we can then talk about those differences and which models have them.

Looks interesting, but shouldn't the crossover be higher the spec on the 140 is Minimum Crossover Frequency* 0.9 kHz with the * meaning 12db/oct. My own experience is that "voicing" a speaker, working out the details of best crossover and placement has more than a few trial and error steps, so not sure I would want to live with a speculative design without listening to it and some options.

Something is wrong if it rattles, but not if it rattles somethng else. Get it taken care of, you are not likely to grow to like it.

You are going to get an eye full of scenery. Have a nice trip, and don't get too weighed down with "stuff".

This is the internet age, I know two people with jet engines in their cars, no matter what it is, yes they can be serious. I am looking forward to the testing and don't see whats to complain about.

Good site, but too cookbook this is how its done, not enough squawker and tweeter discussion. I'd like to learn more about various drivers, modifications like damping, with a focus on SQ. Different types of horns and horn materials etc.

Discussion here is great for Klipsch, but I am wondering if there are some good forums of a more general horn nature, maybe with some DIY orientation? I visit DIYaudio from time to time, but not much of a horn crowd. I'd like to see some discussion of various drivers, horns, horn materials, see if many are actually actively doing stuff.

Trusting your ears, if it sounds good don't worry, has the drawback that people routinely miss things like blown drivers, drivers wired out of phase, seriously gross problems that become obvious once fixed. I think I would start with what are common failure modes, and check those things, then move on to some kind of frequency sweep, then music, see if you like it. With low level noise, get up close and listen to each driver. Horns I am told are generally good or blown, with little between. Look closely at all the drivers, are they correct and with no obvious damage? With a moderate level use a bass only signal, filtered noise or a warble tone, and listen for any air leaks in the cabinet, or odd noises from the woofer. Then do all the frequency tests, sweeps etc.

I've got a M&K dual 12" cabinet sitting in my garage with drivers and couple good plate amps to choose from, but a "few" hours away from powering up, and found a SW115 at a decent price that is tempting me to buy instead of build. Down side then I still have a pile of parts, and eventually will build it, and don't want to find out it was a better choice from the get go. Opinions on dual 12 vs single 15? Specifically the SW115 vs M&K. Here is a link to a similar, maybe same, but not me, M&K sub. http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/64825-need-opinions-m-k-mps-5160-dual-push-pull-subwoofer-build.html