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i have the 605 & 805 & they dont have any problems with the hdmi as of yet, 6+ years. from what i have read it seems to be a hit & miss issue. they do run hot when in a cabinet but run just above warm when not enclosed. they just need good air flow but a fan will assist that. i have seen new complete hdmi boards for sale on ebay & if you know where to go or can sweet talk onkyo into giving you their supplier info you can buy a new board for not much more than the price of new caps. however, what i have found is that unless you are a gamer or have multiple pieces of hdmi gear, using the hdmi pass through on the receiver is just a waste, the receiver has to be on to use it, i watch dvd's or play games without using the receiver & speakers quite often. it also degrades the signal using multiple cords & running through electronics in the receiver. unless you want the video upconvert for a vcr or older 480 dvd player, just run your gear direct to the tv's hdmi inputs, its a straighter signal & you arent relying on the receivers hdmi circuitry that can go bad. most dvd players nowadays upconvert anyways. or if the hdmi board fails you can always just buy a standalone hdmi splitter for about the same price as repairing the receivers hdmi. aside from the hdmi issues i really like the onkyo 600-800 series receivers, especially starting with the x05-x08 models. they are available for very low prices used or refurb, or as the OP said even new in box. IMO best bang for the buck & for an AVR & they sound almost as good as some mid-fi seperates & have a decent pre amp section if you want to add an amp. & the audyssey feature is a nice bonus.

didnt take your comment personally at all, & didnt mean my reply that way either. sometimes its hard to read the tone or meaning in typed words. i was just explaining that i agreed with your suggestion to check it out, but wanted the OP to understand the probability of the baffle board causing the issue was very slim. i agree these threads & forums can be a great help when correct information is provided. its been a great help to me in the short time i've been active here. i try to give that help back when its something i'm familiar with.

moray: i didnt "fail to notice" anything. your suggestion is worth checking, but speaking from experience, a loose baffle board will not change the bass anywhere near what it sounds like the OP is talking about. as i said, i have had kg5.5's with loose boards, the bass was exactly the same as before the board starting vibrating, only now it had a "buzz" that happened on hard bass hits. i'm sure you know that air & other things will always take the path of least resistance, a 4" port/hole in the cabinet will not allow hardly any air to leak past a less than paper thin seam, there just isnt enough pressure because of the large hole, it will go out the port. on a sealed cabinet obviously that is different. my point was, to have the OP pull woofers & hit the boards with a hammer to check for looseness is most likely not going to resolve the issue of what sounds like drastically less bass than he remembers. it may fix a vibration problem if its there but it is not the reason for his loss of bass. by all means check each & every suggestion made & good luck identifying the problem.

moray: these are ported speakers with a huge 4" hole in the front, loose baffle boards wont leak any air, 99.9% of the air movement will come out that big port. & if by chance a microscopic amount of air did happen to "leak" out a baffle board seam, it wouldn't kill the bass like the OP is saying. dont mean to argue but i doubt a loose baffle board is causing this issue. & if they were that loose, he would hear severe vibration & rattling. & some of the kg's did have the bad glue issue that caused loose baffles... i had a pair that had to be sent in to klipsch for warranty repair... however, as bad as the rattle was.... it did NOT effect the bass output at all, just made a bad vibration up loud. mustang: the kg5.5's are not rear passive speakers, they are dual active front firing woofers. he's either got a blown/bad woofer(s) or a major placement issue, or there is something wrong with the settings on the receiver. aside from the normal bass controls or EQ settings, check that the sub is turned "off" in the settings. many current receivers default to sub on which cuts bass to the front mains & sends it to the LFE output for a sub. a 6month old yamaha avr should have plenty of power to make the 5.5's have the excellent bass they are known for. either that or his memory of what they used to sound like is off.

just curious but how would changing the capacitors have anything to do with the lack of bass he's experiencing? arent the caps for the mid/tweet drivers only?

cool, thanks for the review. the efficiency thing was what i was mentioning earlier, it can fool you into thinking the higher one is better simply because its "louder," but when raising the volume a bit its more equal of a comparison. however, if you felt the 83's sounded better thats all that matters. sound is all about preferance. & maybe you arent really biased, you are just adjusted & used to the klipsch sound. & thats fine. the soundstage of the deftechs is very good as you stated, imagine what the bipolar series can do. i agree, i like & prefer my heritage klipsch sound better if i had to choose & the direct radiator bass usually sounds better, but the def techs soundstage really cant be beat. close your eyes & its like you are in a much bigger room listening to much bigger speakers. & for movies that is a very nice sensation. chalk one up for klipsch!

are we going to get a review or comparison of the 2? curious to hear your thoughts on the mythos....

silicone?? not a very good adhesive for something like a speaker cabinet. especially if its the DAP stuff i see in the caulk gun. thats more of a light duty household type stuff. but im sure its ok if you screwed the boards too. klipsch used a very strong hot glue for their cabinets, aside from the bad batch they had that caused problems. & most others that repair them use a real construction adhesive like titebond or liquid nails etc, personally i like gorilla glue. but again, dont mean to scare you, im sure the silicone & screws will be ok.

5ft out from the wall is way too far IMO & definantly affecting the bass output. if you can arrange things so the tv isnt affected i would strongly suggest to get them as far into the corners as possible toed in a bit to point at the listening position. heritage klipsch manuals & the dope from hope articles stressed that corner placement is best for bass responce. i would say 1-2ft from the back wall is max, maybe even 8-10", then about the same from the side wall, shoot for 1-2 feet & see what happens. also, although i know some say to put them on stands to raise the horn to ear level, i have found stands hurt bass, you want the speaker to be on the floor if possible, thats why they make spikes, to couple the speaker to the floor as much as possible. the mid horn is angled such that it will disperse the sound to your ears just fine & may even cut down some of the brightness you hear. & when you are sitting ~10ft or more away from them, the horn is aimed pretty much right at your ears. take them off the stands & stick them as far into the corner as you can, you should see the bass increase greatly. its worth a try before changing out mid drivers etc. as for power, i think your 110wpc is fine for most listening you will do on these, you only need 200+wpc if you plan to listen at rock concert levels for longer periods of time. if you want a "newer" AVR & like onkyo, i would suggest finding a used 805 or 806 receiver. they go for about $250-$300 on ebay (got mine for $225 shipped) & at 130wpc they are a excellent receiver with hdmi capability for video, if that matters to you. if you want the best for 2ch, i suggest looking into seperates, lots of used amp & pre amp options out there without getting into the ridiculous expensive stuff. & the 5.1 thing is best saved for movie use IMO, granted if you have good matched speakers then SACD can be a nice touch if the cd is mixed right, but otherwise 2ch music is best as thats how it was originally intended to be heard, breaking up a stereo recording with digital processing is mostly a gimic & usually doesnt sound as good as the original 2ch. corners on the floor & maybe boost the bass knob to 1 or 2 o'clock. you should hear a big difference!

IMO, version 3 cf's are still excellent speakers, as you heard. all they did was change a few things in the x-over & retuned the cabinet via the ports, also the woofer cone material was made a little lighter. compared to the version 1 & 2's they might have a little less bass, but overall they are still very good speakers & carried the same $2000+ price. the changes were done because there were overwhelming complaints from customers & dealers about the sound of the first 2 series, i heard it was a boomy & harsh issue that most klipsch fans didnt agree with so they toned them down a bit. i have heard a set of cf-4 series 3 & compared to my series 2 they sounded almost identical, the differences were mainly due to different gear. i also own the fortes & they are also a great speaker with a smaller foootprint, being a 3 way they have a different sound with maybe more mid section. but overall i feel the cf 3 & 4's of any series are very hard to beat. one 12" woofer with a passive doesnt compare to 2 10" woofers for all out air moving capabilities & the cf-s handle a lot more power. as for the rear firing passive aimed at your window, that shouldnt be a problem unless you plan to drive them at their peaks, you may get some rattles or slight loss of bass DB from the window. depending on the price & the size/style you want, either speaker will be sure to please.

yeah they should have very satisfactory bass. where are they located in the room? they will have the best bass placed close to or in the corners. if the bass isnt strong where you are sitting there may be room issues causing it, walk around the room or house & see how the bass changes. i bet its real loud in some places & dies in others. every room is different. cf-4's should have very good bass.

just trying to help. the slow blow fuse wont cause any problems untill the moment when something that would damage the speaker gets through for too long, the tweeter is usually the easiest to damage, but the mids & woofers can get damaged too when that situation occurs. some people just bypass the fuse & use common sense to not overdrive the speaker, & thats fine. but for times like extreme surges or shorted amps etc, the fast blow is there to do whats its name implies. im sure slow blow fuses are better than nothing, but its a good idea to have the right one in there just incase. i blew the woofer fuse in one of my k-horns a few weeks ago too while playing some loud bass heavy music, my local home store (menards/home depot) had them for half the price of radio shack.

please read the "dope from hope" article above.... the fuses pictured are the WRONG fuse for speaker or amplifier protection! no offense to you khornukopia. i have mentioned this before on here, speakers require "fast blow" fuses if they are to be of any protection to speakers or other delicate electronic equiptment. the slow blow type will almost definantly not blow fast enough to stop damage to the device down stream. if anyone is using slow blow you should replace them ASAP. the same place that has slow blow at these ratings should also carry the fast blow.

sorry to hear about the bird! find that bugger or get a cat! a thin first coat will get sucked up pretty fast due to dry fresh sanded wood & the low humidity sped drying. i think a 2nd medium coat will fully seal the wood & barely be visible showing all the grain & texture of the wood. after that you are building up a layer, which is fine & it's your preferance how many coats to do. but be aware that the more you get a layer the more you can see it & the higher the chance for imperfections, like bubbles, lint, fish eyes, uneven sheen & the worst is orange peel, where the surface becomes pitted like the surface of an orange & will require resanding & polishing.

just noticed my old thread revived. it sure didnt get much activity when i first posted it... thanks for the opinions on the topic of epics & comparing them to k-horns. i did end up buying the k-horns & after some initial issues & adjustments & growing pains i have grown quite fond of them. however i still feel they are a little bright at higher volume levels & are not as "balanced" as other klipsch i own or compared to the cf-4's. the mids are just so strong on the k-horns its a huge adjustment coming from the other models i have owned or heard. looks like we have a couple new cf-4 owners recently, maybe they can chime in with their opinions after they do some listening.

i have used the satin & it is closest to original on laquered med oak klipsch speakers. & personally i like the satin finish better than gloss for deep grained furniture & speakers. too many coats or too glossy starts to detract from the natural look of the wood, it fills in the deeper parts & the gloss makes it look kinda cheap. thats why oiled finishes look so nice, its the natural wood with all the textures it should have. my vote is for the satin. & a brush should be fine, keep it thin but complete coverage, i think 2 coats will be fine. the minwax poly is easy to work with & provides great protection.

looks good & the gouge cleaned up nicely. might be worth a try to put some stain on the lighter areas only & let sit for 10-15 minutes, might make it look more even to the rest of the finish. either way they look MUCH better!

that last pic you posted looks just about perfect, great job. if you can get the rest of the speakers to look even close to that i think you did well compared to how they looked at first. smooth even sanding & staining is the key. that stain stinks up the whole house huh? if thats the best you can get them i'd be happy with that. let the stain dry for a day or 2 & VERY lightly sand the surfaces to smooth any raised grain, then do the poly coat. i would suggest practicing on a scrap piece of wood for the poly, since its the last step you dont want to experiment on the speakers. apply with a foam brush or fine bristle brush & keep a wet edge, dont go back over any area thats already applied as it can make the bush marks/streaks not self level as well. or use the spray, again if you practice on something first to get the hang of applying in smooth even paths, its should look great. lots of effort but the end result looks great!

5th sentence of post #8. " ideally i would like to have the series 2 of each for a 4 speaker 2 ch system, one in each corner of the room." basically for a 2nd music system.

whats up with the recent spam crap on here???

neither side... smack dab in the middle. or upper middle to be exact, central iowa.

thanks for the opinions, i realize its hard unless you have or own both & can do a fair comparison. just looking for some general preferances on which one people like best. i love my original fortes, they seem to sound great on cheaper receivers & excellent on seperate s/s amps. just figured the tractrix horns & other changes had to make for a "better" sounding speaker. ideally i would like to have the series 2 of each for a 4 speaker 2 ch system, one in each corner of the room. would even be happy with chorus ii's & original fortes im sure, but finding matching finishes at decent prices can be difficult. the fortes are oiled walnut & it seems chorus are somewhat rare in teh OW finish, usually see oak or black. i had a 4 speaker system recently consisting of kg 5.5 & epic cf-4's but sold both to buy some k-horns, in oiled walnut. so to get some chorus ii's in OW would be awsome! even if they arent in the same room, i really like the OW finish, ive always been an oak fan of furniture & my prev klipschs were oak, but the OW just has a fancier look to it. so aside from the finish of the speakers, i think i will concentrate on the series 2 chorus, & eventually the forte ii. i have a wanted ad posted for the chorus, but please let me know if anyone hears of any for sale at a decent price. thanks!

oops, thought he meant the scratch remover. thats always what i associate old english with.

old english is great for touching up nicks & dings, but i dont think its a good idea for long term use, manly because there is too much color/stain in it & it could change the overall color of your speakers over time.

ok, glad its working out better for you. i also neglected to consider how the finsh could have been treated over the years, it probably has lots of cheap "polish" on it like pledge etc. that can act as an oil or wax & prevent the stain from penetrating somewhat. ideally i should have said to get a good cleaner & wipe them down real good before starting. also i didntmean a belt sander, that would probably eat through the veneer in seconds! i meant one of the ones shaped liek a belt sander, rectangular pad, but is more of a random motion action, kind of like a DA sander. if you can use the DA sander right, it would be fine for this job. going to 120 grit paper, just use light pressure, that is pretty coarse stuff, would hate to have you break through the veneer. & the gouge does look much better. at any rate, sounds like you are getting more comfortable with the process, i will stop bombarding you with suggestions, im sure you will get them to a point you are happy with.