Dave A

Yes and you add the flavor you like to the mix. In machining there is a phenomena called tolerance stack up. What it means is that there is a design with basic accuracy specs. At every step of the machining process there are inherent deviations from out of center line end mills in tool holders to slack in xyz servos to deviance from true diameter specs on cutters. All these and more not mentioned add up and if they get out of hand will cause a part that will be rejected. I find this is true in all things and then you have to set the base line that can be met for purpose and cost of production. What I try to do is eliminate some of this by using good tolerance caps and match them as close as my handful of parts allows for speaker pairs and I always do both crossovers at the same time. The rest of the components stay as they are since matching drivers could get expensive quickly and I figure the best bang for the buck is going to be a crossover refresh. I fully understand nothing is perfect but the closer you can get to design parameters the better I presume unless engineers just pull numbers out of a hat for the heck of it and somehow I don't think this happens.

Yes

How true! I can't believe how crude some of these look. Crites makes claims that the new transformers have better and more consistent values and I have no doubt he is right.

Yes to what makes one happy. I like to fiddle around and achieve a sound that pleases me and not break the bank to do it. I would far rather get basic good crossover components and if I want to go from there change settings on say a graphic equalizer to get that warm fuzzy feeling. Then later I can change it to something else for another type of music. To me Dayton or equivalent caps give me the correct electrical values and then I have gobs of money left over to buy devices that can change the nature of my sound on every speaker I own when I want and how I want. It blows my mind how expensive some of these silly fru-fru caps can cost and then you have something that only works one way on one thing and I bet most of us could not hear the difference in a blind test all specs being equal. OK we can call it modification from original intent which is a polite way of saying we have distorted the sound from the original intent. Either one means deviation from design specs.

Nope not an expert but in talking to some who I do believe to be expert and who use methodology to arrive at their conclusions I regard highly I have arrived at some conclusions. I get out the trusty old B&K 885 and measure the old capacitors I remove with high ESR and measure the new ones and hear the difference and see the ESR at like .001 compared to typically .2 to .5 or more. I see the specs on the expensive ones that are not any better than what I measure with Erse and Dayton and can't see any reason to argue with the advice I have been given. You have my attention so please explain what the difference is that would compel me to spend much more to rebuild a crossover.

Good hi spec polypropolene caps like Dayton work just fine and are cheap and available down to 1% tolerance. If you like to introduce distortion that is preferable to your ears you can spend gobs of money and get looser tolerance designer caps and fine tune it to your tastes but be prepared with your wallet. Erse is good too just make sure to order what is in stock if you don't want to wait for parts. I lean towards wanting to hear what I would at a concert and those people don't use $200 2uf caps to produce what you hear so neither do I.

Cutting apart the old KD-15 today and it was my first time looking at the weight that tunes it in for a specific speaker. It does not show up but the weight is 3.6 OZ.

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I did the same with one a cat used as a pincushion. It was unsightly but worked just fine then and still is. Black speaker cement worked like a charm.

" My hole is on the surround, looking for a scrap of old surround material if anybody has some to spare. Coffee filters work well so you don't have to waste a buck next time. " When I get my rebuild kit in if you are serious I will save the old surround as best as I can for you.

Sorry I don't have that capability. All I can do is put things in mono and play one after the other and make a subjective observation.

Just for the heck of it I took a KG4 KD-12 drone and used it for a Forte KD-13 since they are the same size. I could not hear a difference but then my hearing is not perfect either. I am going to try the Simply Speakers route and have an original Klipsch KD-15 and a re-coned klipsch KD-15 side by side and see. I really like the idea that the kit is cheaper and looks like the heritage drones and not the new rubber tire sidewall thing. I can see where the new ones might have more extension but that differing appearance is a problem when selling speakers.

The K-42-K is a different size than the K-42-KP in the KP-250's UNLESS you have one of the earlier 80's models. I have gone round and round with the K-42-KP's and nothing from Eminence fits without routing larger or is smaller than the stock Klipsch hole.

OK today I was quoted $76 + shipping again for this drone from Klipsch. I mentioned the price earlier in this thread and the guy said misquoted so someone got lucky or a dealer price. Since I don't want two different appearances on the drones for speakers I am selling I am going to try the Simply Speakers recone kit route. The new ones may be better but I have to tell you on another Forte where I replaced the old drone with a new one the new one sticks out like a sore thumb. You replace two of these just to look right and there goes a bunch of money.

Thanks and I will check for sure.

I had just bought a pair of KP-450's before these came up. The bass on these is far better than I remember the Cornwalls that have gone through here having and none of the booming box sound I associate with the Cornwalls. These things are big and bad and Cornwalls are kinda cute. Playing the same music the Cornwalls have played if the bass on the KP-450's is not as deep as the Cornwalls there is much more presence and the bass is not mushy. I expect the 456's to be this and more. I am getting to the point where what I keep for myself is all Pro line and the other stuff I buy and sell because people want it. The pro stuff is more sound and less money and if WAF is not a factor check it out.

I will be going to pick up at least two pairs. If anyone is interested in buying from Tim in the Nashville area I can take a covered trailer with me and bring them back for you space permitting. I would imagine there will be plenty of space.

Do the prayer rugs on the floor come with it?

Last time I ordered one which was three weeks ago it was $76 plus shipping for one and ran right at $87 dollars total. If you have information that tells me where to buy two for $90 I need to know.

Anyone have some KD-15's around I am looking for one.

Having had both I prefer the sound of my current setup as noted above. My preference in general is for ported speakers over speakers with drones because I can put them anywhere and get great sound. Outside away from walls or corners it just does not matter they sound good. Chorus II's on the other hand have to be placed in specific conditions to work right. Interestingly enough the cubic inch displacement of the Chorus and KP-301 is almost exactly the same. Pro stuff as far as I know is all Baltic Birch to and no MDF junk.

I think so to. I have a pair of KP-301 II's and KP-115's right now in the shop. Cost $1,000.00 and absolutely heads and shoulders above the Chorus I's and II's I have had even though the bass is not quite as deep. I think I might build an OThorn and combine that with my pair of Pro La Scalas and call it done. The Pro La Scalas are much better sounding than the regular La Scalas because of the K-43 woofer and are cheaper to boot. No WAF though so there is that problem. If you are in control and pure sound is the determining factor and not pretty Pro is the way to go. I have some older KP-250's with the K-42-K woofers in them and man they blow Heresy's out of the water. Truthfully with the lack of bass as deep as the Fortes everything else is the same and those KP-250's rock. I think the earlier KP-250's with the K-42-K woofers are the ones to get by the way the newer ones are not nearly as musical.

I think so to. I just shipped a center channel to Ca and at 27 pounds it was $54.18 dollars worth of overcharging from UPS. Every package I received from FedEx in the last two months has been crushed in and I guess they look for gorillas to hire. I had a $150.00 plus packaging quote given to me for two KP-250's and two KP-115's and two KP-101's from a Fastenal in Wi to a Fastenal near me in Tn. I just don't know how careful they are with shipments. You could always move to Nashville and then I would have a source of good boxes ;D .

Moderator if this is in the wrong place please move it to the right one. I sell speakers on occasion on EBay. Right now I have a pair of Forte II's and people pester the heck out of me to ship them. I have refused to do so because of the hassle of finding safe shipping boxes and shippers and also I prefer people listen to them in person to make sure they are what I said they were. That way if they don't like them, which has never happened, I can refund the money on the spot. Does anyone here have experience shipping and have recommendations? My preference is to just say sorry no shipping.

I don't know what resources you have to search though but here is a suggestion. There is an older variation of the KP-250's that has a K-42-K woofer and not a K-42-KP. They are really musical and I have seriously thought about trying to make a mini Chorus I with them. As they are with updated crossovers they remind me of Fortes and yield sound far better than any small box has a right to. I would use these in a heart beat over the KP-262's.