jazman

I can't believe I just lost my whole post but I'll try again. Tonight I decided not to wait any longer to hear the Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondogs I'd purchased even though the Cary SLP90L preamp is due to arrive later today according to FedEx. The modified PP-1 has been here for several days. The 3 Chineese 12AX7 tubes were immediately rolled for 3 vintage Apmerex 12AX7 tubes. It's been powered on and waiting to be put in service. The Moondogs are given power and time to warm up as I prepare dinner for my son and I. After dinner, the Rega 3 turntable is moved to the Moondogs component shelves. After three LP's, I'm all smiles on the outside, totally excited inside my soul, and ready to listen to music all night long, but I know I can't because I have to get up at dawn. This is what mobile has been talking about folks. SET amps, Heritage horns, and vinyl. What an incredible formula. The Moondogs, the Belles, the Rega 3 and the PP-1 make music together. Miles, Coltrane, Cannonball, Wayne Shorter, Branford Marsalis, have never sounded so good, and I've been using Klipsch speakers for many years though I've never owned Belles. As good as this is now, it's going to get even better when the Cary is added, the Tjoeb99 with new matched Amperex Bugle Boy 6922 tubes, premium cables because I believe that if better cabling increases computer network reliability, ....you get the picture. RCA 2A3 Black plates coming soon to help in the output department. Achieving tonight's music experience is what this post was about. The Moondogs are clearly a new level of amplification for me, which combined with the other components has completed a two channel system that will satisfy my ears for many years to come. Thanks Kelly for all of your help and, all the other members of this Forum. I could babble on for hours and days to come, and probably will, but I want to hear one more cut before I sleep. Long live vinyl! Klipsch out.

Yes mobile, Just breezing through when I saw this thread. I still have the Nakamichi power amp and plan to keep it for now. I think I'm going to mate it with a PAS3X to provide some tube injected warmth to a pair of Hereseys. BTW, tonight I connected the Moondogs, the Rega 3, and the PP-1. WOW! There is a reason so many people have written nice things about the Moondogs. They make Miles, Coltrane, Cannonball, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, and Branford, and on, sound sooo damn good! On my way to update the Bi-wire post. Klipsch out.

Mike, That's incredible time of response. I logged off right after posting the question but wish I'd hung around for a few minutes so I could be blown away with your speedy reply. Thanks a lot. I wanted to check the year of my Cornwalls. They turn out to be 1983 and not 1980 as the seller thought they were(34y254, 34y253). Maybe I should, but I refuse to loose sleep over the year of their manufacture. Just happy to have a pair at a reasonable cost. I will not get them home until the 18th of next month. Klipsch out.

Who can tell me where to find the secret decoder ring that decodes the speaker serial numbers assigned to the Heritage line, for all models, all years? Mike, you seem to be the resident expert, where is it hidden? Klipsch out.

Here's a link to view the phono preamp that will be part of this 2 channel system. Let me emphaize that I am not endorsing or promoting this product in any way. Chrome modified Phono preamp Tom Tutay of Transition Audio has fine tuned the Riaa circuitry on this already very nice sounding usa built tube phono section. this phono section uses 3 12ax7s, point to point wiring, gold rca jacks and nice quality parts and power supply. It has a switch to defeat the riaa curve for early records. This preamp has about 47 db of gain and will drive most any cartridges, except for very low output moving coils. Klipsch out This message has been edited by jazman on 01-25-2002 at 03:19 AM

mobile, I'm certainly glad you struck quickly. And yes I did get the neat little slightly modified ASUSA PP1. I felt that if the guy (Tutay), could tweak $10,000 plus Air Tight gear, he must have found some things he liked about it (PP1), and should be able to get something extra out of it. It's also a nice looking little unit. Too bad I didn't save a copy of the ad with picture. I'll see if the seller can send a pic so I can post it. Now I must allow my pockets time to rest and recover, but think I've assembled the components of a decent 2 channel audio system. It was accomplished for the most part with some fine used components, the phone stage being the only completely new piece of hardware. Here's the list without prices, but I'm willing to tell if anyone wants to send an email request. The cost was less than might be expected. 1975 Belle Klipsch EICO HF81, now stocked with lucious NOS tubes AH!Tjoeb 99 CD player, Bugle Boy 6922 tube upgrade Rega Planar 3 TT, RB300 tone arm with Elys cartridge Then; Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondogs w/upgrade package, w/o KRs ASUSA PP1 (modified) Phono stage Cary Audio SLP90L Preamp, w/premium tubes & oil cap upgrade, just completed shipped to factory checkup. The Cary preamp will not arrive until next week, with my target to bring everything on line with the Moondogs by the following weekend. The EICO will then move to power 1980 Cornwalls. It's now as exciting to listen to music, if not more, as it is to watch a movie on the HT setup here at the homestead. KLF-20 front KLF-C7 center RS3-II surround KSW-15 sub KSW-12 sub 55" 16x9 Mitsubishi Yamaha RXV 795 Toshiba SD-3105 Dish Network Dolby Digital receiver Long live the Jazz LP! (It's time to listen to Billy Harper.) Klipsch out.

Unfortunate duplicate post. Klipsch out. This message has been edited by jazman on 01-23-2002 at 06:37 AM

Allan, I'm with you on this. I grew up on Miles, have gone through 3 copies of Kind of Blue, and it's still my favorite. In fact, at this late hour I'm going to put it on before I hit the pillow. I have only about 500 Jazz LPs, and vinyl will never be dead in my house. That's why even though I love movies and home theatre setups, I love Jazz more and have spent the last 3 months creating a 2 channel, music only system. Long live the LP. And yes, LPs sound wonderful a good "setup" Klipsch out.

The answer to my bi-wire question was pretty much as outlined by mobile homeless. The Belles respond to what's upstream. Here's the conclusion to the purchase of the Eico HF81 as part of my solution to extract sweet, rich sound from my Belles. (a copy of my post to Shapeshifter in the 2 channel Forum) shapeshifter, Inspired by your post, I got busy with my HF81 tonight to chase the hum. I removed all rolled tubes, did some eyeball and hand inspection, discovered several loose tube sockets which I tightened, several shots of air in all sockets, reinserted pulled tubes, replaced all remaining unrolled tubes with Mullard 12AX7s, and wallah,... hum is bye bye. Sound is better than ever and I haven't even used the Mullard EZ81 rectifiers yet. After initial connection, though the sound was very good, I knew it could get better because only a few of the tubes were brand or model matched. For immediate output tube help, I opted for the EI Yugo EL84's,(on sale). The HF81 had unmatched Teslas when I bought it. Wanted best rectification I could get, opted for NOS Brimar EZ81/6CA4, then Mullard NOS 12AU7s, now Mullard NOS 12AX7s. I have four Mullard made EL84 output tubes on the way after some cautious ebay shopping, but the EI Yugo EL84 tubes have been a very pleasant surprise. The prior owner had completed cap and other upgrades before I purchased it. He spent virtually no money on quality tubes. After my tube upgrades, this EICO sounds magnificent. I plan to pull my NOS tubes eventually and replace with less costly Mullard, Telefunken, and Bugle Boy tubes manufactured with other brand names screened on them. One of the nicest things about the HF81 is, the tubes used in it are readily available, and at many different price and quality levels. The Eico HF81 is currently driving my 75 Belles, connecting a Rega P3 turntable with RB300 tonearm/Elys cartridge; and an AH!Tjoeb 99 CD player. I will take it off line soon, to be replaced by the Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondogs I recently purchased. I think I've finally found the last piece of that setup, a decent preamp, and within my budget. At that point I will give the HF81 maybe a week of rest for a complete cleaning, face plate shinning, etc, then it's back on line driving a pair of 1980 Cornwalls. This post is a bit long winded because it is also an update and near conclusion to one of my first post, Bi-wiring Belles. That post was done to find ways to extract the rich sound I knew was hidden within my 75 vintage Belles, that my 100 plus watts of SS amp was not delivering to my ears. This HF81 is a mere 14 wpc, but it delivers the goods! The Rega 3 and Ah!Tjoeb 99 also contribute, but not as much as the HF81. This is also another Thank you to mobile homeless for his many suggestions, advice, and prodding along this upgrade path. I believe I'm almost there, knowing fully, no one is ever really...THERE. There's always one more piece to be upgraded. Yeah, like my cartridge............. Klipsch out.

shapeshifter, Inspired by your post, I got busy with my HF81 tonight to chase the hum. I removed all rolled tubes, did some eyeball and hand inspection, discovered several loose tube sockets which I tightened, several shots of air in all sockets, reinserted pulled tubes, replaced all remaining unrolled tubes with Mullard 12AX7s, and wallah,... hum is bye bye. Sound is better than ever and I haven't even used the Mullard EZ81 rectifiers yet. After initial connection, though the sound was very good, I knew it could get better because only a few of the tubes were brand or model matched. For immediate output tube help, I opted for the EI Yugo EL84's,(on sale). The HF81 had unmatched Teslas when I bought it. Wanted best rectification I could get, opted for NOS Brimar EZ81/6CA4, then Mullard NOS 12AU7s, now Mullard NOS 12AX7s. I have four Mullard made EL84 output tubes on the way after some cautious ebay shopping, but the EI Yugo EL84 tubes have been a very pleasant surprise. The prior owner had completed cap and other upgrades before I purchased it. He spent virtually no money on quality tubes. After my tube upgrades, this EICO sounds magnificent. I plan to pull my NOS tubes eventually and replace with less costly Mullard, Telefunken, and Bugle Boy tubes manufactured with other brand names screened on them. One of the nicest things about the HF81 is, the tubes used in it are readily available, and at many different price and quality levels. The Eico HF81 is currently driving my 75 Belles, connecting a Rega P3 turntable with RB300 tonearm/Elys cartridge; and an AH!Tjoeb 99 CD player. I will take it off line soon, to be replaced by the Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondogs I recently purchased. I think I've finally found the last piece of that setup, a decent preamp, and within my budget. At that point I will give the HF81 maybe a week of rest for a complete cleaning, face plate shinning, etc, then it's back on line driving a pair of 1980 Cornwalls. This post is a bit long winded because it is also an update and near conclusion to one of my first post, Bi-wiring Belles. That post was done to find ways to extract the rich sound I knew was hidden within my 75 vintage Belles, that my 100 plus watts of SS amp was not delivering to my ears. This HF81 is a mere 14 wpc, but it delivers the goods! This is also another Thank you to mobile homeless for his many suggestions, advice, and prodding along this upgrade path. I believe I'm almost there, knowing fully, no one is ever really...THERE. There's always one more piece to be upgraded. Yeah, like my cartridge............. Klipsch out. Klipsch out.

FYI eBay is hot this week with Heritage stock. Tonight Belles auction ends. With a little over an hour to go they're at $1,525. There are two Cornwall auctions, one Lascala, two Khorns coming up. Klipsch out.

shapeshifter, Another happy camper! I just chuckle when reading about someone else as surprised and pleased as I was when I fired up my HF81. Mine has developed a hum heard only when idle, and I need to take the time to De-ox and clean everything, but it's difficult to take it off line because I want to play music with it all the time. When I first posted my remarks of how pleased I was with this unit, I thought most would believe I was exaggerating. Not anymore. I don't know what tubes you've rolled, but for my EICO, new rectifier tubes made the most impact sonicly. I purchased two NOS Brimars from Tube World in the absence of finding Mullards. I have since found two new Mullards but have not rolled them to date. The Brimars are very nice and worth their cost to "me". Let your budget be your guide because there are less costly options found on mobiles page. Mobile's fountain of HF81 knowledge Klipsch out.

chuckears, I don't have the 4000, but I do own the AH!Tjoeb 99 version. Everyone calls it a modified Marantz, but the Marantz really begins as a Phillips. I have the Phillips SS version and my Tjoeb99 remote is identical and works both units, all functions. I bought my Tjoeb99 used with a set of the Upscale Audio NOS Apmerex 7308 tubes. I enjoyed the improvement of the sound of my CDs with the stock Phillips tubes, more improvement with rolling them for the Amperex 7308s, and will roll those this week for a matched pair of Amperex 6922 Bugle Boys which are supposed to be the very best tube to use in this model. The 4000 has several upgrades that were cost upgrades in the 99, but are part of the out the door price, including a tube upgrade with the 4000. IMHO, the Tjoeb99 opens up the sound of the music on a CD. The 4000 is supposed to be better. Rega and Jolida may also be an option if you seek the sound that tubes offer. BTW,I'm using 75 vintage Belles and an EICO HF81 tube amp. I purchased my Tjoeb and the tube amp as part of a overall system upgrade to get richer sounds from my Belles. It's working for me. I hope it helps a little. Good luck with your decision. Klipsch out.

Email has been resent plus one.

beatjunky, It's good to know other ears are impressed by the HF81. I don't claim audiophile expertise, but I really enjoy the sound from this unit. Please pass on your impressions of bass response from your Khorns with the HF81 and the type of music you typically listen to. My EICO is only being used in a 2 channel music setting, mostly Jazz, and I have not felt the need for a sub woofer that many in the Forum feel is needed with Belles and Khorns. I do not intend this as not a question to stir a debate. Just asking for beatjunky's impression. mobile, check your email. Klipsch out.

Hey, I thought I was the only one who loved Belles. They are not quite Khorns, but for me, they are the next best thing. By specs. they are supposed to be identical to the LaScala, but IMHO they have always sounded a bit warmer. Ok LaScala owners, no bricks please. That statement is not a put down or negative, just a humble opinion of my perceived "slight" difference between Belle and LaScala speakers. Shall we start a pool on the final price? My guess is $1,875. And JDM, what's wrong with walnut. Your other Klipsch must be in oak. Klipsch out

Mobile, edster, and all, I love movies, but I love music more, especially Jazz. I have to vote for seperate systems. For most, the cost of seperate systems is not easy to justify. My HT setup is just fine with SS amplification, KLF20's, KSW15 and KSW12 subs, RS3II's and KG 4.2s. The music on the other hand is getting a different treatment, in different rooms with '75 Belles, Moondogs 2A3's being unpacked, though currently using a wonderful HF81. Once the Moondogs are in service, the HF81 will be used to power another 2 channel music only system with '80 Cornwalls in a different room. For those who say you need a sub with Belles, has not heard them powered with this HF81. I can't wait to provide testimony with the 2A3 Moondogs, but I still haven't made a preamp decision. (If only Mr. Wright would call me back.) I've worked in a night spot hosting the worlds best JAZZ performers playing LIVE, so I know a bit about how the music should sound. Sorry, I'm not a big rock fan so I can't speak of that genre with Belles. Blues, classic R&B are also served very well to the Belles by the HF81. No need for a sub. The move to 2 channel only was a move I knew I had to make. The move to using tube amplification was brought about by posting questions in this forum on how to get the wonderful rich sound from my Belles that 100 wpc of SS amplification was not providing. There's no turning back. Now,........ If I can ever wrap up things at work I can go play with my Moondogs.............I'll be able to tell ya' more later. BTW the HF81 is push pull. Klipsch out. PS. See, I really am awake when the sun is in the sky. This message has been edited by jazman on 01-16-2002 at 04:34 PM

mobile, I sent pics of M2 to you via email. I hope they download OK. Seller is using the Ear 834, has used Lehmann black cube, and camelot lancelot pro, but preferred the lehmann over the camelot. He thinks lehmann might be had used for $400. Klipsch out.

mobile, I probably confused you by mentioning the Audio Note M1 in the previous post as being a consideration.(It was the $600 price) More homework revealed the M1's tube rectification issue. See, I do listen and learn. That's when I considered the M2 posting. This M2 with it's mods, meets many of the "yes" type of mods you have mentioned. The cover is a bit of a bummer, but it can come off. Of course the phono stage is now another piece to be completed. This is system has become the equivalent of building a custom house. Once you break ground and start framing, you can't go back to building a tract home. Just one more piece........ Check your email. Klipsch out.

After looking at the other pre's, pics, and reviews, I'm going with the M2 preamp described above for $875. It should quiet the need to upgrade for some time. Klipsch out.

mobile, The leading candidate for preamp is; AUDIO NOTE M2 PREAMP $900 Asking $900.00 Condition 9/10 Included Box, Manual Description Original owner. Upgraded by Tubesville.com with Black Gate caps, silver Audio Note wiring (silver for CD1, copper for CD2), and Cardas RCAs. Switchable feedback, two sets of outputs for biamping. Excellent shape, onyx finish with gold knobs. Works perfectly and sounds great. Will also supply stock of tubes for the tube regulated power supply. Signal tube is a single 6sn7. $900 plus shipping from NYC. 2 CD inputs, tape loop,aux, tuner. Many pics available. Klipsch out.

edster, You betcha' I'm going to enjoy them. I've been extremely fortunate with upgrade purchases the last few months. The EICO will move to duty of powering a pair of 1980 Cornwalls. Now I've got to go about selling at least one pair of KG4.2s, a KSP-C6, pair of KSF-S5. Klipsch out. This message has been edited by jazman on 01-12-2002 at 03:24 PM

Beatjunky, What a move! Your seller really put you way down the road with his work. Your next best move now is to go to mobiles web page on the EICO HF81 with all speed. He's got links to all kinds of info you'll want to know about this wonderful unit. mobile's page I've located and purchased 2 new Mullard rectifier tubes and can't wait for them to arrive next week to roll into my HF81 along with some additional tube goodies. I'm enjoying this EICO. You will too. I hope it does for your 75 Khorns what it did for my 75 Belles? Make sure you listen to something on your SS equipment before connecting the EICO. Let your ears do the rest. mobile, Here's the reply from the seller. There's a good possibility the Moondogs will be in my home before the end of next week. Wow! Sellers reply; "The hum is definitely not a problem in my system using 104 dB efficient horns. I have the occasional (usually solid state owning) friend who sticks his head in my horns and then comments on the noise level of my system, but to me it is a non-issue. As I said before, To get the best sound out of the 2A3 you need to heat the filaments with AC. Unfortunately, AC=hum. I'll just say that the level of hum is audible from 1-2 feet from the speaker but NEVER from the listening seat 6-8ft. and NEVER does it interfere with the music or the sound staging capability of the Moondog. It reminds me of the tiny scratches and pops you hear when listening to analog - you hear right through them and just accept them as being part of a superior listening experience. There is a small potentiometer accessible from the top of the amplifier with which you adjust for the lowest possible hum level. The pot can be adjusted while the amp is on. " mobile, this is not a show stopper for me. I'd rather spend my $$$$ on these Moondogs than on an old pickup I was planning to purchase to do the hauling and various landscape projects here at my house.(I'll gladly continue to pay for delivery.)This is a pleasure investment. The pickup was going to mean pain. On to the preamp seletion. The goal is to spend less than $1000. Candidates so far range from the ASL MG PRE new, at a price of $450, to used Audible Illusions M3 with phono for $950. In between those extremes are an Audio Note M1 at $600, a Melos SHA-1 with simple modifications at $425, etc. What are your preferences? Kilpsch out. This message has been edited by jazman on 01-12-2002 at 02:27 AM

mobile, He's using Avantgarde Uno hornspeakers. JPS Supeconductor interconnects and biwire speaker cables. I've asked him about possible hum problems and waiting for his reply. If hum can be removed, it's not a show stopper for me. I should be able to get the NiMH rechargeable battery bias supply from him or go with what would be reasonable alternatives. Another pair with this kind of workmanship may not surface again. I'm willing to be patient, work to resolve any warts. Klipsch out

NOS440 (craig), Follow mobile's link to Triode. I'm very new to tubing but I was able to purchase a matched Quad of new EL84/6BQ5 EI Yugoslavia tubes for $29.80 for my HF81 there. That should not break the bank. I also read reference material, and cross reference like a mad man, so I've felt comfortable slogging through eBay listing to get my hands on tubes like the 2 new Mullard rectifier tubes also for my HF81. One I got for $26. The other I had to fight off the hordes for at $42 but it averages to $33 each which is pretty good when you consider Tube World did not have a matched pair of Mullard EZ81/6CA4 tubes I could purchase at any price and these are prized highly by most. The caps over the tubes, if like my unit, are held on by the pressure inside the cover pressing against the tube, but pulls off easily. I'm learning as I go, enjoying every new bit of knowledge. I have gone through hell with UPS in the past. In my case they destroyed the Klipsch box a pair of KSF5's were shipping in. After leaving the seller, the surrounds mysteriously disappeared from tracking for a few days, then reappeared after many calls, many days of missing in action later, at my front door, in some completely bogus box. They had been repackaged by UPS at one of their depots after going into a damaged holding pen, and they were not about to confess to anything until I forced a fact finding of the issue by having the seller sign over the power to settle the claim to me. I finally was awarded compensation after much hassle. I never ship anything via UPS since that event, and discourage all others from using them. Good luck. Klipsch out.