Jim

Good Luck with them. I found with mine, that the best sound is coming when I have them toed in and the tweeters are just wide of my ears. Also, think right triangle with the set up. The speakers are points as well as your sitting area. That should be a good starting point. By doing this it will center the voice and also give you a "phantom" center channel when you do watch movies.

Those I agree do kick some A$$, it's the 28's that are a step behind. But as I stated,they are sounding a lot better than when I 1st purchased them, moving them around and toeing them in more,and also moving my seating area up has given them a more enveloping sound for me. unless something falls in my lap for an upgraded speaker,and until I learn a little more,they will do. I'm glad though that I did keep the 25's when I had to choose between them and the kg 3.5's.

The funny thing is all of my friends have always thought I had kick *** systems. And everyone I knew always came to me for help. Then I came on this site and realized how ignorant I was with HT and audio. My 1st set of Klipsch speakers were purchased in 1998 brand new and are still being used. They were the KSB 3.1, and 1.1 and I thought they were the best thing I had heard outside of the large 55 gallon drum sized Fisher speakers I had with the 15 inch 3 way set up IN THE 80'S. Then last year I decided to get newer speakers and still everyone thought I had the greatest system. Now I'm almost embarrassed to say what I have when everyone on here has monster systems compared to what I have. The RF-25's were my first step in the direction I want to go. The 82's or 7's would be a nice next step for me. . I just realized I got my C-20 from PC Richards,not Best Buy.

That's why I also have the RF-25's and that full setup.They were purchased after I purchased the 28's. The 28's and 30's are entry level and unfortunately for me, I didn't know what I know now. They are fine for movies and music is ehh, but they are still better than most of what Best Buy sells and the other big box stores by me. Speaking for myself, these people who work in those stores don't seem to be that knowledgable about audio,or ask the right questions with consumers. Had I known what I learned in a month on here I would have never purchased the ICON's, but again at the same time, they are getting better sounding with my moving them around and moving my listening sweet spot closer.They are no way comparable to my reference speakers, but aren't as bad as other brands entry levels. For what I use them for, they are more than fine as my wife and kids don't care about sound quality. I watch TV and movies and the games when they come on and they are fine. I'm not using them for pure music listening and am in the process of doing a dedicated 2 channel audio set up for myself. Then I will splurge on speakers, but for what I paid for my complete 28 setup with center and surrounds in a 9.2 set up can't be beat. $750.00. But for someone just starting out, I don't think these are a bad initial speaker to get their feet wet with. Also, what receiver are you using for these when purchased?

They in my opinion are almost identical. They are basically the Reference Series Best Buy has now in different cabinets.Very slight difference in crossovers. I have the 28's myself because I got them for $150.00 a piece or would have done the 30's. As per Klipsch,they are 99% identical in all aspects,at least that's what they told me. I have the sc-20 as my center channel and they said the 28's were more than fine and the c-20 was actually a better center channel than the kf center channel.Both speaker systems run same type of sub and aluminum tweeter, I'd go with the cheaper one only because of the pricing and basically the same speaker. Try going to best buys site directly and see if they have them cheaper.

I'm interested in it, but also want to look for other options on whether or not to go pre-amp. But people I have spoken to say pre-amps/amps are much better than an AVR. The amp was hooked up to KEF speakers and a cd player when I listened to it. I think at this point and how early on things are in my search, I'd have this as a last resort if nothing else was available to me. I also need to learn a little more about things as I am now questioning what I've bought and want to go in a seemingly different direction on my music listening vs HT/TV watching. I think it's time to do a dedicated 2 channel, or even a 2 channel A/B speaker set up. So much for me telling the Mrs. once I get these speakers and receiver I'm done. There was also a Prima Luna DIALOGUE 5 for $1150.0 which they told me was a hybrid tube/ss amp but that didn't have the same sound as the Carver.

O.K. So I am exploring tube amps a little more now and know I will need to spend more than what I initially was going to allocate for this. Does anyone know about this amp? And if so, what do they sell for/price range in the aftermarket?They are asking $1500.00. It's only a 1 input amp, so if I'm going to do something it limits me on what I can do and doesn't have a phono input. I am most likely a month or two from being able to purchase one due to the holidays and all, but if I have a start point of $500.00 and a cap of $1200.00, what else is there out there that is worthwhile and would have more than 1 input for it?Or am I going to pretty much going to only be able to afford a 1 input amp for this range? I am extremely ignorant to tube amps and components as I have always only had 1 receiver setups with an attached cd player or turntable, so I am thinking I may have to go separates with a pre-amp and then this amp,or would it also work with just the amp and the component. I'm most likely going to do a 2 channel set up in my family room where I already have a 9.2 set up. So I will most likely use the 2nd set up to hook up a turntable and cd player,and if it makes sense my old cassette player. I don't know if it will be worth it though with the cassette player. I will most likely wind up getting a set of speakers to listen 2 channel only,or 2.1 and leave the 9.2 set up for TV/Movie viewing. Any and all info is greatly appreciated,and if anyone has an amp they are thinking of getting rid of in the range I am in, I'm open to discussion. Most likely for what I will need 11-20 watts per channel will be enough power. I am sold on tubes for sound quality after listening to this one.I could not believe the difference in sound quality.

I can't think of a single pumpkins song that makes me feel angry. That's what Nine Inch Nails, White Zombie, and 2pac was for at the time. Maybe not angry, but that non conforming to society mentality. White Zombie actually gets me pumped along with NIN. That whole industrial techno sound gets me pumped.

It may be the PC Board then on it. I'd tell them that if they don't make good you will speak to an attorney, it's the principal on the issue and how can they say they potentially didn't drop it? How could they have neglected the damage then and seen it now? It won't make sense to really see an attorney, but may make reconsider. If not, let them know you will not be going back to them for anything else in the future.

Have you thought of contacting HK directly to see if it can in fact be repaired? If it's that good maybe it's worth the fix. Again, not having ever heard any of their receivers,I wouldn't know how to compare them to Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, and Pioneer. I can only go by what i have heard on my end for my opinion. If you were ranking sound quality,where would you rank each of the receivers? I know Marantz has a much warmer sound than Yammies,with Denon following as they are basically the same company,then Yamaha, Pioneer and Onkyo in my opinion with Onkyo being the brightest sounding and Pioneer being the most muddled.Yammies in my opinion are better at instruments playing but not as clear on vocals and Marantz is the opposite to me, clear on vocals, but not as good with the instruments. Maybe it's just me.

I guess I got hooked due to the poetic lyrics. There's lots of metaphors and imagery while rarely having to use the word "like", which is a huge pet peeve of mine. Disarm, Today, Mayonaise, all have a certain beautiful yet bittersweet feel to them that I can't find anywhere else. Their harder songs are often fun but just not the same. Lol,I've always been the opposite, not really into lyrics, more of the sound and fluctuations of the voice and the musical instruments for me. Their raw and angry sound I guess mirrored my state of mind back then, although I do enjoy lyrics more today,and have to agree his were very good. Almost Bowie like at times.

The steamers should work, but believe it or not, rubbing alcohol will also work with a small sponge/scrubber. I use rubbing alcohol on my furniture with a spray bottle attachment on white couches and it gets everything from ink to wine stains as well as dirt, oil, marker, paint, oil stains right put and "perks" up the material. My wife read about it and it has worked miracles. 4 kids and 2 dogs don't make for the most clean areas at times.

It's still new so there won't be any issues off the bat, it usually is progressive over time due to the heat transfer on the boards. I for one think it will be a few more years before they can get all the "kinks" out of the system on HDMI for not only Onkyo, but other brands also.

I was actually looking at a HK AVR-254 and was going to come on here for advice on it. But wound up getting something else. They don't even sell HK by where I live.

I like to see how the bass is going to be handled with mids with some hardcore trance-Delirium (Sarah Mclaughlin's Silence) It has that thumping bass, keyboards,and quick fast paced beats along with her angelic voice. Then Billie Jean from Michael Jackson is also good. Metallica is always good with anything from Master of Puppets. Brothers In Arms is an awesome cd to listen to also. As a side note, Billy Corgan purposely left his guitar that way for that sound,which I have always liked. Always loved that raw sound when they came out and were full of piss and vinegar.

Stones were good when they did Steel Wheels in Shea Stadium, the whole stadium was literally rocking. I've turned down tix for Kansas that were free,lol. I still want to see Heart. Floyd in Yankee Stadium was pure awe, Had 5th row seats and you could feel the heat from pyro, and the show was just jaw dropping for me. The lightshow, pyro, the wild boar blowing up and coming out of the walls on One of These Days with lasers shooting out of their eyes was ridiculous in a good way. Most off the wall concert was Biohazard and House of Pain, they played in a tent in Asbury Park.

Saw George two years ago in Reno opening street vibrations. never did a stadium before. 1st stadium I ever did was in Giants Stadium to see Aerosmith, Guns and Roses and Deep Purple. People were lighting chairs on fire with Smoke on the Water,and some guy was running around naked punching women in the face,until he got the crap beat out of him by people.George came out into the audience while playing his guitar imitating knighting people with it. He played for over 2 hours.

I miss some of the older groups not touring anymore, there aren't many groups out now I'd go see, and the ones I did see that are still touring shouldn't be. I did get to sit next to Laurence Fishbourne at a Lenny Kravitz concert in NYC.That was 3rd row. Worst concert I ever saw was The Allman Brothers, Dickie Betz was an hour late and said hello New York, while we were at Giants Stadium in New Jersey. Sound wise I'd have to say Floyd, Clapton, Brian Setzer ,Joe Satriani, and David Bowie were the best I've seen. Audience inclusion would have to be U2 and George Thoroughgood.

I had the TX NR609, 709,and 809. They supposedly "fixed" the issue after *1*'s but I've seen them on Ebay with the HDMI' needing to get fixed on those as well as the *2*'s series. I liked their amenities they offered vs Yammies and other receivers, but the sound left me wanting more fullness and richness. I've seen on forums that the Onk's are all concking oput right after the 2 year period, and unfortunately for me 3 died in a years timeframe.

How are the Harmon Kardon's sound? I've heard they used to be an awesome receiver but their newer stuff lacked a lot.At least that's what I've read in reviews. I've also seen only ones that were very low wattage rated though.What type of sound do they have? Are they similar to Marantz, or Yamaha?

Try Social Distortion, they should be around your way about now. Saw them in October with my kids in the 1st row, kids got a guitar pick from him and a drum stick. Awesome concert, nice small venue, we were about 6 feet from him. I've seen about 500 concerts in my life, and have to say this was one of the best for raw music and energy. Good call, im really in the concert mood lately. And im one of those nuts that is always 10 rows from front, whatever it cost, it's worth it. Same here,my ears are always humming for 2-3 days afterwards when I'm done with a concert. I have taken my kids to see Brian Setzer, B-52's (we met them before their concert),Bon Jovi, Social -D, Linkin Park, 30 Seconds to Mars, and 2 others. I have 13 year old triplets and a 10 year old and have been taking them to concerts since my little one was 4. I was on stage with Rob Zombie when he was still White Zombie, was on stage with George Clinton, The Smithereens, Offspring, and was backstage with U2. I've crowd surfed with one of my sons also. Going to take them to see Maroon 5 in March.

Pure sound wise I'd do the Denon, Bass output,I'd do the Pioneer, and then the Onkyo last. If the Onkyo does work past 2 years (due to the HDMI Issues) it has a more hollow sound to me. I've owned 3 Onkyo's that all crapped out on me within the last 2 years and they all sounded hollow and were different model numbers ranging in the 100 watts per channel, 110 watts per channel, and 130 watts per channel. I've owned 2 Denon's the AVR E400, and the AVR X-4000 which I have now and the sound quality is much better in my opinion than Onkyo's is. Pioneer I have listened to only in big box stores but every one of them didn't have the clarity that Yamaha,Denon, Marantz, and even Onkyo had, they were muddled and did have much more bass to them though than the others. Just my opinion. Is the Onkyo 535 the new model? Does it still have Audyssey? I thought they did away with it. I'd definitely stay away from them then if that is the case,and until they can prove the HDMI issue is fixed I'd have nothing to do with them. The older models were well built, but these newer ones.............nope. Not for me.

Try Social Distortion, they should be around your way about now. Saw them in October with my kids in the 1st row, kids got a guitar pick from him and a drum stick. Awesome concert, nice small venue, we were about 6 feet from him. I've seen about 500 concerts in my life, and have to say this was one of the best for raw music and energy.

same here on the shipping

was an excellent solo saw them live with Rob Zombie. Sleeper for everyone, look up Karen Carpenter's drum solos