DaveWJr

Since you at a minimum know of him, yes, that would be correct.

1% vs. 2% THD for a subwoofer is a meaningless difference. Especially when talking about kilowatt amplifiers, it means that difference shrinks even more. When you get into the 10% region, the conversation truly begins. Those numbers mean nothing without knowing the xmax of the drivers and drones. You need to calculate volume, not area. EDIT, someone just needs to get one of each and drag race them! I can confirm that the Palladium 12" has greater linear excursion than the RSW 15 driver. This is not to say that it is "superior" due to the significant cone area difference. However, the P312 does not disappoint on any front. It produces a hilarious amount of output for its size. When you run two of them (which we do in one of our listening rooms), it becomes extra exciting Thanks for chiming in here. The latest story being spread by the self proclaimed experts is that the Palladiums have most of the cost in the finish. Pretty soon the rumors will be that the Palladiums are below the RF series but just have a pretty finish. I can also confirm that this is a load of garbage. If people knew the complexity, features and thus the price of the woofers alone (which were all 100% custom designed by our chief acoustic engineer), they wouldn't think that for a second. I'm not talking about the sub either. I'm talking on all Palladium woofers be it 7, 8 or 9". On the 312 for instance, the front baffle which looks normal is in fact 3 (yes, 3) layers of heat formed MDF. That silver trim ring which insets the driver so the surround is flush with the front is primarily there to hide that fact. There is nothing cheap or corner cut about anything in Palladium.

Is your drop top tinted on 20s and using rappers as crash test dummies? Got to have the whole package, you know. All types of music go through Klipsch speakers during development

1% vs. 2% THD for a subwoofer is a meaningless difference. Especially when talking about kilowatt amplifiers, it means that difference shrinks even more. When you get into the 10% region, the conversation truly begins. Those numbers mean nothing without knowing the xmax of the drivers and drones. You need to calculate volume, not area. EDIT, someone just needs to get one of each and drag race them! I can confirm that the Palladium 12" has greater linear excursion than the RSW 15 driver. This is not to say that it is "superior" due to the significant cone area difference. However, the P312 does not disappoint on any front. It produces a hilarious amount of output for its size. When you run two of them (which we do in one of our listening rooms), it becomes extra exciting great idea horrible idea. seaton subs are monsters and would spank both subs you have. they are one of the best commercially available subs for music i have ever heard. Now I get that the Seaton subs is a great idea, but a DD-18 a horrible idea? Come on Scrappy, there is nothing "horrible" about a DD-18. It is a wonderfully accurate and musical sub. It's just not the monster HT sub that the Seaton is best known for. Bill The Velodyne DD-18 and DD-18+ are both phenomenal products. They are very highly respected around here for their performance. You will be hard pressed to find a lower distortion subwoofer on the commercial market with its sonic output capabilities. Data Bass, while informative, does not tell the entire story. I'll let everyone in on a fun fact: us engineers need our competitors to make high quality products that at least match and frankly can hopefully exceed what we're doing at the moment. When you ask "how are they doing that?" and can then apply your own design approach and supersede their performance, that's when you get the best products. This competition is what drives engineering forward. Once you're the leader, and if no one else is close, progress can stagnate. When there is a competitor making something you can truly respect, it pushes you further to leap frog them and give your customers the new greatest product on the market. This is especially important in headphones with the likes of Sennheiser, AKG and Grado. Not a single person in this office would say their performance-oriented products are anything but superb. For loudspeakers, we likewise have brands and engineering principles that we respect. One becomes deluded quite easily otherwise, and the customer ends up losing out.

Agreed on this. There is no such thing as too much subwoofage for Jay L, so never fear: subs are never far away

Fantastic post and insight. You have hit this dead on.

I will say that designing a horn is easy. Designing a great horn is hard, but quite doable. Designing a great horn-loaded system is very difficult. Horns are very unforgiving of non-linearities or inherent distortion in the system. There is a reason that even when designed correctly, many horns have a very distinct "aww" coloration. This is due to an incomplete impedance match typically in slot horns where the slot profile contributes to the sound as much as the horn profile (you're playing a driver through a duct rather than fully horn loading a driver). It's in fact this coloration that gives horns their classic "love or hate" characteristic. These days, few horn designs have this coloration but the stigma remains. The obvious improvements therefore come in the form of improving the evenness of the power response. In other words, design focuses on making sure the off-axis rolloff is indeed exactly as designed in every intended direction. It's this feature that separates the great modern horns from just generic ones used for amplification. This aspect can always be improved, hence horns, phase plugs and drivers will continue to be refined.

The Zero 1 is a very beautiful speaker indeed, and one I wish to hear one day. That said, what I posted is in fact the measured frequency response of the system shown at CES, not just a proposed goal.

I know this post was not directed to me but, I actually kind of sort of like the look of new Reference subs but a little refinement(and wood veneer) for a "flagship" model would go a long way in my book. A little more like the Revel Rhythm 2 with a high gloss lacquer clear coat over veneer. Bill The Rhythm 2 also costs $10,000. Not quite the same ballpark. Our flagship subwoofer is in fact the P312, or Palladium sub. Even that is nearly 1/3 the cost of the Revel.

Yea, but still a corporate marketing decision to be made...... If the project moves forward, you can bet they will have real wood veneer. That is a fundamental aspect of the aesthetic, and one which would never be removed.

So I'm guessing the woofers are similar to the two 5.25" sub-woofers used in the Stadium in order to dig that low? Did they go with rear Tractrix passive like with the new Reference Premium tower speakers are utilizing? I think the idea is great. The marker, IMHO, is folks looking to buy a Stadium or similar product. They are swown this as a 2nd option, if you have the room why would you get a Stadium. This is about same price as a Stadium, but you can seperate the speakers to have a good soundstage/center image. It should sound way better than similar soundbar products made for iPhone just as the Stadium does and I am guessing this will soubd even better than a Stadium, The market would be for those who want convenience of pkaying music from iPhone or other portable but having way better sound than sonus, plug and play soundbars or other products. I'm sold, if they came out looking like that, made in USA, with those specs, I will take 2 pair. Travis Can't tell you any details, only that the woofers use the Stadium woofer performance as a base, but the driver is tailored to this specific application. As was said about "where is that low end coming from?", these need to have the ability to dig deep with control like Stadium. Difference is that these have to dig deeper, and be ultimately louder than Stadium. You'll just have to wait and see what other morsels of information we feel like dangling in your face.

Oh that wasn't accusatory; I was just confused since there was no quote. how are you Dave? doing good? Quite well, just trying to stay warm up here. Had some groundplane measurements to do, and then the -27deg wind chill said that I didn't

You may be right although I didn't glean that from the description. If that's the case, they become more interesting. These speakers are 100% active. Zero passive components. All DSP, all day long. And yes, this is separate from the WiSA portion. And yes, you are correct. There are 3 discrete channels of amplification: tweeter, mid, woofers.

Oh that wasn't accusatory; I was just confused since there was no quote.

My friend, you look at this too simply. Were we to tell you that just "x" change makes an enormous difference, then it means that the previous generation was not well engineered. We do not play that sort of engineering game, which I'm sure you know as you own Klipsch products. What you need to realize is that transducer design specifically is almost always a "greater than sum of parts" sort of deal. You reduce some flux modulation here with "x" feature, not a huge deal. You optimize the coil winding using "y" geometry, not a huge deal. You improve the former by using "z" material to lower damping, also not a huge deal. You introduce a larger diameter magnet, again...not a huge deal. This continues until the net result is a driver with so many slightly improved features, that the net performance is improved and improved measurably so. I will give you an example. Let's say a woofer's magnet is increased by 5mm in height. You are asking for curves proving this change's worth . In reality it was done to allow for more excursion, as the coil length on the woofer had been increased, so the linear suspension travel was increased to take advantage of it. The net result was a driver capable of deeper extension, but it now needs more mechanical clearance, hence, thicker magnet. That single 5mm change in itself isn't what created the overall superior driver. Hope this helps.

In my opinion, the new line is an all around improvement. A lot of work went into driver design for the new subs, and it's clearly audible. Distortion has been greatly improved, and while that might reduce some of the "thickness", it also means that when you turn the system up, the sub doesn't get bloated. Are they watt for watt "louder"? Perhaps not. They do however, make an amazing amount of bass given their size. When the volume goes up, the control remains. To me, that indicates a strong improvement.

People who appreciate high quality audio with the ease of a fully integrated system. I know what you meant by your question, but as this is still a prototype system, it could appeal to a lot of people. That includes anyone who's either very young and likes the vintage look with high technology inside, or older customers who laud it for its easy of connectivity. Plug and play, if you will. If it's going to use something like apple airplay it's going to have to be wifi. I would look at the Klipsch Stadium for some of this info, as it is what the speaker is based upon (and Heritage of course). The Stadium uses Apple AirPlay and Bluetooth. I don't see why DNLA wouldn't be included as well. I wonder if there will be a transmitter sold that will connect to your AVR. Maybe Apple AirPlay already does that, but I'm not up on that system. All I have is an Apple TV in the shop, which uses something like AirPlay. As it is not finalized yet, I can't tell you specific details. I can tell you that this system is very versatile, however.

You guys want specs? I've got specs. The goal was indeed a product that bridges retro with modern. I can't tell you everything about them since what you see here are prototypes, but at a minimum for the towers: 27Hz - 22kHz +/- 2dB while the monitor is 40Hz-22kHz +/-2dB. Tweeters are 1" LTS titanium, midranges are 3" aluminum slot-loaded drivers, and the woofers are 5.25" of a design to let such a small driver dig into the 20s with authority. Rest assured, we do not believe in cheap amplification. Horn loaded speakers don't take kindly to low quality amps. As far as the wireless bit goes, until a handheld battery comes out that can provide the 1800W that a standard 120V plug can, wireless speakers are going to have power cords. You do want power, right? Something people need to understand about the transmission is that WiSA products are not wireless like your cell phone's Bluetooth ear piece. They work in a completely different bandwidth. There is near zero insertion loss (your input signal goes from the source, to the driver with nothing added). The DACs used for such products must be quite good in order to resolve the amount of detail that's in the source signal. As an added bonus, you get 24b/96kHz compatibility. Think about this: we wouldn't use products or formats that don't let our acoustics shine to their highest potential. Rest assured that these retro/modern concepts follow that ideal. -Dave W