hwatkins

completely nude picture...

Fully dressed before being placed

This is my "badge" - Bad pic, but imagine you can see the cursive 'W' on the gold pin.

This is a naked picture of the speaker. I had intended a more finished look when I started. My problem occured when I had my temporary box finished for testing I was so enamored with the sound that I chose to not fiddle any further - including building a higher finish box. Since, as you can see from the first photo, most of this box is hidden by the placement. As it was, I glued and sealed with the uptmost attention to detail and I am glad to report that reducing the leakage had a very good effect. I had reported previously that I was not satisfied with the low freq roll to the sub - while it can stand some thought to improvement, the sealing of the box made a giant step forward. The transition to the sub is much better than my initial test. Specifications: K77 tweeter, K55 Squawker w/700 lens, Type 'E' crossover and two wired in parallel Fostex 168Sigma. The exterior of the box is 33.5 x 14 x 9 inches. No stuffing, no lining and no porting. The system is powered by a Denon 3802 with Heresy main, Heresy side, Infinity rear (Used for rear fill) and SVS 20-39pci. Reciever manages low freqs below 80hz to the sub. Pros - 1. Near Precise Timbre match for everything above 700hz (I have the Fostex roll over to squawker). 2. Unexpected very good transition from Fostex to the Squawker - difficult (if possible) for the ear to tell the difference between center and Heresy, 3. Fits in my space - asthetically very pleasing to me and significant others. 4. Outstanding clarity as a center (matrixed in multichannel stereo) for music. 5. Outstanding broad dispersion for clarity in HT (being in the sweet spot helps, but good sound from many angles while viewing). This was better than I got with a single Heresy experiment (and is probably more to do with my room than my engineering capabilities). Cons - 1. I have a drop in SPL (more than my prefered -3db from the tuning point) that starts just below the transition to the sub. While the final version is much better than the test, I would prefer the speaker go to around 50hz before the -3db (this would closely match the Heresy). I am probably constrained by my dedication to the size of the box and have to live with the compromise - there is only so much you can expect from 6.5 inch woofers. 2. MDF - just too darn dusty to work with in the winter inside. Also, I am not terribly pleased with the difficulty of finishing. Use good no void plywood - at $25 - $35 extra a sheet you will save a couple of hundred 'hassle' dollars (your time for cleanup and finish). 3. Heavy - can't be helped and will always be there. Overall - I am tickled pink about the looks and sound. The Fostex full range decision was more expensive, but proved that the higher efficiency made quite a difference. Heathen to the full range folks - you bet, but this is one that must be heard to believe. Compromised - of course, but an extraordinary difference and it was made understanding the compromises and focusing to minimize the same. The experience was fulfilling. I am going to build more speakers - I'll also focus on better finish next time around. Hmmm....How about cornwall like stuff for downstairs and bring those Heresy upstairs for rear channels?? (I hate it when this stuff starts....)

As promised - the center channel is finished and photographed. This first post is for the center on top of the TV. The next post will have details with another picture, followed by a couple of more picture posts (I haven't figured out how to post multiple pictures on one post). HEnry

I have finished my speaker project and I am left with a single crossover. I simply charge my cost to purchase plus shipping - any interested party can PM me to discuss the price...

DD has it right. You would end up banding the two together and putting another box around anyway, so I would make my own. Good stiff foam and double boxing should work. Will still cost around $15 to $25 but it is better to be safe for your buyer. I generally apply a handling charge on the large and precious stuff - the folks that get the package see the result and are, so far, appreciative of the effort to be sure all arrives unscathe.

"Nods" should be "Mods" (can't even spell acronyms correctly - sorry). If you have the space for an additional Heresy as center, it is by far a less expensive alternative than my modifications. The best results I got from a single Heresy as center was inverted (woofer above the horns) for a near seamless integration in HT. However, if you have the space limits I wanted to solve, you can get some outstanding results making your own box. The most difficult aspect is matching timbre on the woofer with smaller cone surfaces, and, as physics dictates, it is hard to go as low as the K22 woofer in my configuration. The plus side of my box - lower profile for set top install, an interestingly larger image (seems to come from screen and less directed to a single sweet spot) than single Heresy, specific timbre match above 700hz and a surpisingly good transition from woofers to squawker (unable to tell the difference from the Heresy). A good performing sub makes my configuration work (however, for my ears that is also necessary for the Heresy). Fianlly, we all work within the compromises of room and asthetics that make individual solutions differ - so enjoy the journey. Feel free to write. In between meetings today I will finish box touch ups and work on fashioning a grille. Pics should come by the end of the week.

Others will probably jump in with good spec info that tells you what the difference should be - I have both and can only tell you that it takes a very critical ear to hear the difference in the speakers. And yes there is a difference - mainly in mids, just hardly worth it for me to worry long on which version to get. As always this is IMHO...

Shielding isn't needed - this is on a Rear Projection TV. All the magnetically influenced parts are housed in the bottom of TV cabinet -easily 24 - 36 inches away from the speaker which will sit on set top. Several box builder sites give info on shielding the box (which gives you freedom on choosing speakers that do what you want - the shielded speaker world is not as prolific as the unshielded). Bear in mind that if you persue this type of project most DIY loudspeaker folks are very much into two channel setups and getting advice for a center is sparse - and sometimes caustic. Just remember that is the norm for on line conversations and be patient in weeding out the good advice. The separate camps are also entertaining - The full range speaker folks, line arrays, the horn folks, the two way speaker folks and the three way speaker folks (mine's bigger than yours, is not, is too, is not, etc.). I do recommend two pieces of software - BoxPlot and Unibox - that you can get for free or at a reasonable shareware cost that seem very accurate in modeling the results (at least they were for me). Just try those words in your search engine.

Michael - this baby is not light - I can't tell the difference in wieght from the Heresy, but I did get kudos from significant other on the profile. J - Thanks for the kind words - also thanks for you words of help early on in this project - your information was invaluable in filling in some gaps. Trey (Mr. Klipsch tech support) - thank you, thank you. The T/S on the K-22 was the piece of information that let me determine how the woofers would compare (and therefore the Xover effect) to a standard Heresy. With this info I completely understood any compromise made and what I should expect to hear. For a first project I am surprised at how close I was to optimum - something that tested near what design said would happen. After some time with this I will probably look to baffle changes and maybe other woofers to get even closer. I am scared that my addiction has taken on a new level - just so you know, this speaker was more expensive than buying a single Heresy (but It left me with parts to sell to other Klipschers to finish their projects). Cheers

Here is what a heresy looks like in the ceiling. I am pleased with the sound - these operate as my side speakers in HT and back speakers for music.

Side view of above

The attached pic shows my unfinished center channel. Some of you have been aware of my efforts - so I wanted to update with this first look. Here are the specifics: Klipsch K-77 Tweeter, Klipsh K-55 Squawker w/700 (Heresy model) lens, Type 'E' crossover and two Fostex FE168S. I did not make any changes to the Xover and have the Fostex wired in parallel. After testing for three weeks I am going with a sealed design - the best sounding of the bunch. The box is screwed together to get me through testing configurations. As you can see it is set up for a set top (RPTV) installation (meets WAF requirements). This evening I will dismantle and prime the exterior. Then I will paint (semi-gloss Black),secure air leaks around any speaker, glue the box and build a grille for final use. I plan on leaving the back as a screw attached in case of future changes. The sound - blown away good. It is very smooth and mixes extraordinarily well with the front main Heresy and the side heresy. I had quite a few conversations about the Fostex with some box builders that led me to believe that I may have been making a mistake, but the design simulations kept coming out OK so I got bull headed and plowed on (especially since I needed the efficiency of the Fostex). While the Fostex is sold as a full range, it performs well in this box with a crossover that limits its upper freqs. The rollover/transition to the squawker is, to my ear, indistinguishable from the Heresy. The LF to the sub is managed at the amp to 80hz. The woofers have a 6db drop at 75hz - listening to discrete speakers you can notice the difference (this doesn't happen with the Heresy), however, this box performs better than any other speaker attempted as center except an inverted Heresy - and it does give the Heresy a run for its money by providing better debth (My words - It seems much fuller than the Heresy, excluding that 3db or so difference near the transition point to the sub). I tested venting to 50, 60, 70hz tuning and all were a tad too boomy (that is why I am leaving the back attached by screws - I may change the woofers some day)for my taste. The whole family (who are generally disinterested in my over the top passions) felt the sealed version was best and that it is a wonderful improvement to the Home theater. It is also amazing when added to the stereo image - PWK was on target talking about a center for music. All said - It is a wonderful addition. Smoother, clearer center with the timbre match I was looking for. When the finish is applied I will send pictures of it in place as well. This first project was cool and the results surpassed my expectations. I will be looking to build more speakers (maybe start looking at VOT projects as I get better). Just what I need - another variation on this passion.....

I do the same as Tigerwood - inexpensive with at least as good quality as original with the advantage of much easier hook up to speaker wire. For my current speaker project I have two sets in case I need some external crossover help with woofers. If you want to go fancy check www.madisound.com for full binding options including plates.

In our home business (my wife and I) we have used MAC for quite some time - especially for the graphics artistry works for my wife - and recently went to a PC for her main machine. Simply put the PC had significantly more primary computing options than the MAC and the graphics trade off has become minimal for her needs. No rant against MAC, but a well configured and made PC was both less expensive and an admirable performer.

Hello Dave - You've got mail HAL

I have a single K-77 that is available as soon as I close my center speaker project. I am not sure what you mean by reasonable, but I will halve my total cost to acquire and add shipping to get a price. PM me if you are interested...

Dean - hang in there an we all wish and pray for the best. Great reminder that the family is a first priority...

As much fun as I had in the 70's and being very early in the morning still doesn't get me there... However I am able to see the Supremes (minus Diana Ross - the skinny one) in the picture, so maybe you have a point.

nicely done - especially the very subtle tilting. I have all the parts for a modified Heresy center (using K-77 and K-55) - I may have some experimentation before I get the woofers right (starting w/Fostex sigmas). Until then I attached my Heresy ceiling mount for the enjoyment of a fellow tinkerer. Great work!

I may not be much help here, but with a Denon 3802 and Heresy there was a definite difference between large and small at 80hz level. Before getting a new sub, my best sound was on large and there was clearly something happening. Now remember as the frequencies drop, so does direction (it is hard for us to know where the sound is coming from). On small and subless, there was something missing. I believe your RF-3s should actually go lower than my Heresy, so you should be able to notice. There is a setting in the 3802 that lets you tell the system if there is a sub or not as well as a setting that determines when LFE output below 80hz is sent to the main speakers (even when set to large). Since this only applies to LFE I have to ask if your sound issue is for HT only or with music as well. Hope some of this ramble applies.

I would finally go to the opera.....

Scott says it best - listen to both and decide. Few (if any) will go with Bose when they do this. I have owned Bose - I dis like them so much that I will not even give them to my daughter for college stereo. Now that is harsh for a guy that lives by 'let your ears be the judge', but while I believe individual preference drives the decision, I'll not contribute a Bose recommendation to aid anyone. If (and maybe not then) Bose sold their highest end stuff for less than $700 it might have a comparable market. Finally, the Bose (Acoustimass?) subs apparently won't work with anything other than Bose hardware. I suggest building the system in stages - as your childrens education costs less over time you can change/add components that meet your objectives. The Klipsch route lets you do that much better than the Bose route. I am scared that you would be replacing speakers earlier than you want with Bose. Finally, I hold that good speakers can last (easily) a lifetime - that means I used my first upgrade dollars on the best sounding speakers at the very top of my spending limit (at that time it was Heresy). It has never been regretted. I apologize for the easy target bashing -

If older Heresy is your goal I would suggest buying them instead of modifying your existing pair mainly because of the crossovers - if I am not mistaken they are set up for the drivers (at least that has been told to me as I make a box that houses older K77 and K55 drivers). Ebay has alot of the older speakers show up. A simple thought is that you are going to be more than mildly please with the HIIs on tubes. There is some discussion about preferences here, but it may well be over such small differences as to not be noticed by most folk's ears - with pluses and minuses for both. I have both Is and IIs and have a slight (very, very slight) preference for the IIs. It takes quite a bit of real listening work to tell the difference (at least for me).