ODS123

Two weeks old and you have a problem that is not easily and immediately remedied? Return them... plain and simple. Take them back. If you're inclined to try another pair, then do so. But I wouldn't waste more than a few minutes trying to make this pair work. This is Klipsch's problem to deal with, it shouldn't be yours.

I tend to agree.... If something is broken and an OEM replacement is no longer available from Klipsch, then fine. ..Go with aftermarket. But to swap out perfectly functional parts w/ aftermarket seems hairball to me. It's like saying "Klipsch makes great speakers but their cross-overs and drivers are easily bettered by someone who did NOT engineer the speaker." Would love to know what PWK would think on this subject. My hunch is he'd agree with me. I know for sure I would be far less inclined to buy a used pair of Kllpsch speakers that have been modified w/ non-stock parts. Probably a non-starter for me. If it's been modified, I'll look for another pair. That's goes double for components.

Thankfully, my McIntosh MA6600 produces absolutely no hum or hiss. The only hum/hiss I can provoke with my system is with my turntable. Because of their cartridge, all TT's will produce hum/hiss if you turn it up loud enough. To hear this his I have to turn the amp up to 70% and put my ears right up against the speaker. If I listened to music at this volume I would probably damage my hearing as be visited by the cops. As turntables go, it is incredibly quiet.

I have a McIntosh MA6600 driving a pair of Cornwall III's. ..It works great. I bought the amp before the speakers, otherwise I would have probably bought a lower wattage mac amp. 200w/ch. is overkill. My wattage meters rarely crest 10 watts and at the level it is ear-damaging loud. The heresy's aren't quite as efficient, but they're close. It will work just fine.

Oh, there is no doubt I paid more than necessary to get good analog sound. I have bought used things in the past, but liked the idea of having one of the new re-released 1200s. It sounds great… But does it sound $5000 great? Probably not. But so it goes with audio. Diminishing returns….

2020 Technics 1210GAE, which is a limited edition. I think it is #206 out of 1200. The cartridge is an Audio Technica VM760SLC.

My wife does b/c I basically got her permission for every purchase. ..She makes > 1/2 our income (she's way smarter than me) so she sure as hell should get 1/2 the say. But even if earning imbalance was reversed, I think we'd follow the same rule. From day 1 (married 30yrs) we agreed not to deceive each other about such things. And saving for retirement and college for two boys meant waiting long stretches b/w big purchases. The biggest were the Mac Integrated, the Cornwalls and my Technics TT (w/ cartridge) - all of which were purchased new and cost about $6k each. Honestly, I do feel guilty at times when I look at my system. All in, it's well over $20k. When friends ask they usually gasp when I tell them. It's at that point I remind them I have no other expensive toys/ hobbies like wave-runners, country club membership, motorcycle, bass boat, expensive car, etc... ..This absurdly expensive system is my sole costly indulgence. And the guilt is made worse by the fact that my wife doesn't have any expensive hobbies of her own. For every $1 she has spent on her hobbies, I've spent $10 on mine 😆 It helps that she and our boys love music as much as I and that we have the system set up in our family great room so everyone can enjoy it. It would be much harder to justify if this system was kept in a locked "man cave". The only "no touch" component is my Technics turntable. ..I'm the only who gets to use it. And everyone is fine with that as we have a Tidal/ Roon subscription where all the same music can be found.

Are they technically improved in anyway? It seems like the only construction difference is the use of a metal screen. Which I can see being kind of pricey, but not accounting for doubling the price. if someone has a rec room with lots of pinball machines and an air hockey table, then perhaps these would look at home. But still, I can’t imagine any of the music I enjoy sounding quite right coming from these carnival Funhouse monstrosities by contrast, when you look at how the “regular” heritage speakers are pictured on the website, their integration into the decor is absolutely beautiful. The rooms look really really cool; Retro, but sophisticated. I could imagine living in any one of them. seriously, how can you improve on this? https://www.klipsch.com/products/forte-iv-floorstanding-speaker

Honestly, I think they're hideous. Playing anything through them other than video games would seem utterly incongruous. Hard to imagine listening to Dylan, Nina Simone, Vivaldi, or even Black Sabbath through them. But Donkey Kong, or Mario? ..Ok, that works. Klipsch is a great brand... I hope they know what they're doing. These things look like PA speakers at the Bumper Car rink at an amusement park. They don't want to engage in a special edition co-branding project that attracts a few dozen F1 fans while at the same time turns a few thousand people off the brand. I love Klipsch so I really hope I'm wrong.

That's my point. Check out this picture of the Fives - the pic shows a lovely pair flanking a TV, with a TT below. Well, if all you use these speakers for is Bluetooth streaming from your phone, then they'll preserve their nice tidy appearance you see here (well, you'll still have one power cord running up to one, then the tether running across to other speaker). But if you plan to hook a turntable and TV up to them, you'll now have cables that DON'T run down inside of a cabinet. You'll have the HDMI cord (which is pretty thick and conspicuous) and RCA cable running over to one of the speakers. So how is that any simpler or cleaner than just using a simple blue-tooth enabled integrated amp and non-powered speakers??

Good point about serviceability. One of the first things I'd check relative to performance is how well channel balance is preserved as you turn the volume all the way down. I like listening at low levels and hate when one channel completely attenuates before the other. Every powered computer speaker I've had was terrible in this respect. At $1300 for these speakers I'd want this to be perfect but would find it surprising if they are. ..Afterall, the volume control appears to be a pretty simple affair. ..This could be managed by a balance control, but none is provided.

I dunno about that…. somewhere in a parallel universe there are people saying, “hey, we no longer have to plug all of our gear into the back of one of the speakers that must be located, no matter how inconveniently, near a power outlet, then run another cable of fixed length back to the other speaker! There's a new technology allows us to just hide the gear in whatever cabinet we want and then run just ONE cable - that can be as long or short as we want - to each speaker! Gosh, isn’t progress great? All because of a little new fangled contraption they call a Bluetooth-enabled integrated amplifier!!’ 😄😄 Kidding aside, the Real game changer will be when speakers can be driven without any wires of any type. Until then, speakers will always be tethered, by either a power cord, a signal cord, or a good old speaker cable. Meanwhile, there is no real clear winner, in terms of tidiness or convenience.

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@Iteachstem True.. True.. about advertising. Also... The plate-amp on the Sevens and Nines provides inputs for a Phono, HDMI, and USB. Wouldn't using these inputs necessitate having a table or counter nearby to set these devices upon? And wouldn't you now have a tangle of cables running into the back of that beautiful speaker? Suddenly, the master speaker won't look so nice and tidy any more. At that point wouldn't it look nicer to just use a smallish all-in-one amp , and run a single speaker cable to each speaker? I guess if you only stream via bluetooth, then these speakers retain their space efficiency advantage, but once you start physically plugging wires into the back, they loose this advantage.

I certainly understand Klipsch giving customers what they want. And as powered speakers go, these look great. I'm only saying that if such customers took a closer look, they'd realize that products like "The Sevens" reduce clutter by only 1 speaker cable and 1 box (ie., a DAC & bluetooth equipped receiver or int. amp) - which these days can be quite small and easily tucked inside a cabinet or behind one of the speakers anyway.. And people need to remember that The Sevens master speaker needs to be situated near an outlet and that spacing of the two speakers is limited by a rather shortish proprietary cable that joins the two speakers. This makes doorways or windows b/w the speakers a real problem. The beauty shots of these products on the website cleverly show NO no cables, but in actual use, there will be visible cables - at minimum, a power cord to one of the speakers, then the tether to the other..

I know I am in the minority, but I don’t really understand how powered speakers offer any advantage over non-powered speakers in terms of tidiness or simplicity. Instead of running a single speaker cable from your amp to each speaker you instead have to run your front-end cables (I.e., turntable, cd-player, streamer, etc.) over to the master speaker, then the proprietary patch cord - which is of a fixed length - back over to the other speaker, not to mention the power cord which is plugged into an outlet that is likely closer to the floor. Also, if the built-in amp fails, you have to ship an entire speaker somewhere to get it repaired. They look awfully cool, and I’m sure they sounds great, but I’m not sure their practicality. Lastly, it’s easy imagining a pair of non-powered Klipsch speakers lasting 20 years. Can you really imagine the preamp/amp/dac inside of this lasting 20 years?

Not sure how Feng Shui it is.. Indeed, I'm not sure I'll ever understand exactly what it means. But I'll make a pitch for making your system as visually appealing to your SO as absolutely possible. By making my system look nice and tidy - no tangle of cords everywhere, no open rack of components, etc. - my lovely wife has always encouraged me to have the system in our family room. Consequently, the whole family hears what I'm listening to, and I hear what they cue up (all CD's ripped into a music server, and Roon/Tidal the past few years). Not to be too precious about it, but it really has helped make our family close. IMHO, music is best enjoyed as a shared experience. When I see my kids put on their headphones, I'll ask what they're listening to, then encourage them to cue it up on the family system. ..And I don't have headphones, so it's the main system or nothing. It's important to ALWAYS find something to like about what they're listening to. You get nowhere criticizing what others - particularly your kids - like.

So explain the popularity of Klipsch Heritage speakers despite the fact that their enclosures are relatively un-braced. ...They sound as hollow as shoeboxes when you rap on them. So why do they sound so good in spite of this??

The fact that he's a car audio dealer doesn't really enter into it. If so, why? ..He allowed people to bring their own speakers! He adjusted only for amps that did not have linear F/R. ..Usually tube amps. And he didn't expect 20/20 correct. Rather he expected a % of correct ID's that ruled out chance.

I like the look, feel, and history of the McIntosh brand. But most importantly, I Iike that they continue to include Bass, Treble, and Mono switch with every pre-amp and integrated amp they sell. But does it sound better when they are defeated or at neutral?? No.... not a bit.

Why is that a "clincher" ? What amp these days would even need such an EQ adjustment to match another apart from the aforementioned (by me) boutiquey, low wattage tube amps?? Name me one modern day amp (or receiver) from companies like Yamaha, NAD, Mark Levinson, Arcam, McIntosh, Rotel, Crown, Onkyo, Anthem, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, etc.. that doesn't claim an even frequency response in it's specifications? You can't. ..And yet people here routinely claim to hear differences b/w these various brands. And to KT88's question... Forcing a low-power S/S amp to drive a 1-2 ohm speaker to 120db thereby causing it to go into thermal overload and shutdown is not evidence of audible differences b/w amplifiers. ..What it IS is evidence of choosing the wrong amp for the application. Sorry guys... No gotcha! here. ..Hearing differences b/w modern day amps is illusory, IMHO.

Did you read the details?? I'm thinking you didn't... "if the listener requests, they can substitute whatever source, source material, amplifiers, speakers (even headphones), and listening environment they prefer, within stipulated practical limits. The source material must be commercially available music, not test signals." "Amplifier requirements The amplifiers in the test must be operated within their linear power capacity. Power capacity is defined as clipping or 2% THD 20Hz to 10kHz, whichever is less. This means that if one amplifier has more power (Watts) than the other, the amplifiers will be judged within the power range of the least powerful amplifier . The levels of both left and right channels will be adjusted to match to within .05 dB. Polarity of connections must be maintained so that the signal is not inverted. Left and Right cannot be reversed. Neither amplifier can exhibit excessive noise. Channel separation of the amps must be at least 30 dB from 20Hz to 20kHz. All signal processing circuitry (e.g. bass boost, filters) must be turned off" Pretty amazing that NO ONE claimed the prize. ..Heck, 2% THD is pretty liberal! ..Humans hearing isn't nearly as sharp as audiophiles believe. So my final comment to the OP (Nick?) is that 99.9% of how a system sounds is about speaker choice and room setup. Buy a nicer amp if you wish, but don't expect the sound to change

Totally!

My advice Pt 2 Regarding turntables. To me, vinyl is a great format b/c of the rich liner note content, the album art, lyrics printed on the sleeves, etc.. ..Even the hassle of advancing to a specific song, or flipping the album side contribute to making the format great because it encourages the listener to listen to the entirety of the album and thereby grasp the connectedness of the songs and (possibly) the theme of the album. But does it sound better? No.... Vinyl is noisy, has limited dynamic range, high levels of wow and flutter (so you'll hear piano notes wander - particularly on belt-drive tables) and is very sensitive to vibration. ..Can it sound great? Yep! ..But better? ..No. unless you compare a remastered vinyl record to a poorly mixed original CD. ..But then it's the remix that improved the sound, not the format. This isn't meant to discourage you from getting into vinyl. On the contrary. Vinyl is great! ..It's awesome to pour over a 50 year old album cover with it's artwork, liner notes, posters, concert pics, etc... as you listen to the music. ..Plus finding treasures at flea markets, neighbors basements, etc... ..And it can sound great. ...But not better.

No, there is nothing wrong with it. ..In fact, so long as the amp is operating within it's design limits - which it almost certainly is - it is highly unlikely you would hear ANY improvement by moving to a pricier amp. My advice Nick: if you have a limited budget you should prioritize your spending around speakers, then room treatments... Any modern day amp that isn't driven into audible distortion - which is unlikely to EVER happen given the high efficiency of your Khorns - is going to sound pretty much like the other. The sole exception would be boutiquey low-wattage tube amps which are basically engineered to alter the sound. Which really isn't a very audiophile-thing to do That said, there ARE reasons to spend more on an amp. For example, better tactile build quality, appearance, features like tone controls, equalizer, mono switch, wattage meters, etc... ..All of these things can be important, but don't spend more thinking the basic, unaltered signal (ie., no tone controls engaged) will somehow sound different. But don't take my word for it. Read the following. Years ago Richard Clark, an Audio professional, devised a $10,000 challenge whereby ANYONE who could reliably (defined as better than chance) distinguish one properly functioning amp from another would take home $10,000. ..But they had to compare them while "Blinded" from knowing which amp was playing. NO ONE took home the money. And thousands of people tried, including audio reviewers and audio obsessives like those here on this forum. Again, NO ONE took home the money. So spend more if you wish, just don't do it expecting better sound. And though I don't know for sure, I'm pretty certain Paul W Klipsch himself would agree with this. https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/193850-richard-clark-10000-amplifier-challenge/