Snails_Pace

I was in the same predicament as you when trying to find wife-approved stands for my KLF-C7s that I have upended and used as rear and side surrounds. They were previously sitting on triangular base/topped, tube steel support speaker stands (i.e. they were designed as speaker stands with wire guides in the tubes and carpet spikes on the base), and while the stands themselves are functional, the aesthetic effect was less than satisfactory (low WAF). What I ended up doing just this past weekend was going with four small but thin/tall Mission-style telephone stands stained with a cherry oak color that blended quite nicely with the somewhat reddish tint in our entertainment center. The stands themselves are now truly furniture grade items and the extra shelf down below can be used for knickknacks, plants, tall books, etc. There was a similarly sized phone stand at the furniture store built with a small drawer just below the top of the stand that had black handle accents and black steel legs extending to the floor with levelers built in...the combination of the wood finish and the black accents would have likely complemented the black wood/satin finish of the speakers. Just something to consider if you are not finding dedicated speaker stands that are to your liking...and the extra functionality of something like a small telephone stand, i.e. shelf or drawer, might be a nice selling point for your wife.

In a larger room with a smaller seating area, I've LOVED them. I've commented before that I personally feel the WDST type surround speakers are great if you really need to give everyone in the listening room a sense of spacious surround so that seating position won't matter...but since we have only one couch to listen from, that was never an issue. That being the case, the C7s are fantastic for music and with the THX engaged on the 5803, the "problem" of being able to localize rear surrounds from direct radiating speakers seems to melt away. @Krew--check your PM

An impending move, smaller home, and new daughter on the way are just some of the things we're having to contend with as we start boxing up our new belongings. The long and short of it is that I won't have room for my current Lengend-based HT in our new home. I currently have 2 immaculate black KLF-20s and a third KLF-20 that has been custom modded horizontally for a killer center channel (you can see a few pictures of the results on the board here). I have also been using four black KLF-C7s on vertical stands as my rear and side surrounds--they have not been modded at all. I have boxes and docs for all speakers but the modded center. I was considering breaking up the set and selling the pieces off on eBay...but was also curious before I did anything if anyone here on the board might be interested in the whole thing for a ready-made Lenged-based HT. Just fishing for a nibble or two before we make up our minds one way or another...

---------------- On 7/12/2005 1:16:36 PM kepople wrote: Thanks for the replies guys. I am not familiar with the Hirez format, but would like to know. I have a Harmon Kardon AV235 and use optical connections for everything. I also use a Samsung Upconvert DVD player, so if there is a player that can handle the Hirez, it should be this one. If not which. In either case, the AVR switches automatically to DTS audio or Dolby Digital surround per mode of the DVD. Please enlighten me if there is more audio quality I am missing, but I think i am there. I will check Towers sight for others. Kirby ---------------- DVD-Audio is a separate format--there's often confusion because people hear DVD-Audio and assume that it must mean audio from a DVD that happens to have Dolby Digital and dts audio information. DD and dts are good sounding audio formats, but Super Audio CD (SACD) and DVD-A are even higher resolution formats than DD and dts (DVD-A is 24-bit, 192 kHz, I'm not sure of the specs for an SACD signal). Conventional DD and dts are typically recorded at lower bit-depths and lower sampling rates. High-resolution formats like DVD-A and SACD are only transmitted via digital over a select few number of connections and protocols at the moment and you must have a compatible receiver to take advantage of them. If you're only using a toslink or coax digital connection, than you cannot take advantage of higher resolution audio formats like DVD-A or SACD. However, some DVD-A discs also include a lower-resolution DD or dts signals (and some SACD discs also include a conventional CD audio compliant track) that IS compatible with the digital transmission limits of the toslink and coax digital connections so that you get some of the advantages of a slightly higher resolution signal. Here's some information about SACD: http://www.sonymusic.com/sacd/index.html and here's some for DVD-A: http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/faq/dvd-audio/faq_intro.htm Also, don't confuse an upconverting DVD player with one that decodes high-resolution format audio--upconverting most often refers to the video signal (i.e. going from 480i or 480p video to 720p or 1080i), but has little to do with the audio. In fact, an audio "upsampling" DVD player will typically only take a normal, lower resolution bitstream and over-sample it to a 24-bit, 96 kHz signal, but it cannot actually decode the original digital bitstream of these higher resolution formats. If you're looking for a player that actually decodes these signals, they are typically called universal players or explicitly include the DVD-Audio or SACD logos on them--a DVD-Video player cannot decode the high resolution audio information of a DVD-A disc unless the disc includes a lower resolution track and SACDs need their own decoding chip (as far I understand it). I'm sure there are plenty of people here far more learned about this stuff than me, but this should at least get you primed for an understanding about the higher-resolution audio formats that are commercially available right now.

---------------- On 1/11/2005 2:45:29 PM silversport wrote: Thanks Snails_Pace: I did mean with the Heresys...I tried to get some off of audiogoN and they were already spoken for so I went with plan "B" since I had read they were difficult to find (Oh, 1 guy here has them but won't ship to the MidWest and the other sold them a year ago... )so as soon as I bought "plan B", the KSF-F5s...a set of KSP-S6s came up not far from my home albeit at almost twice what I paid for my not yet received KSF-S5s...wondered if it was worth getting the KSPs and re-selling the KSF-S5s... Thanks, Bill ---------------- Well, you certainly won't be disappointed with the S6s...they're an incredible surround speaker though the pricing issues have gotten a little out of hand over the past few years as they become even more difficult to find. I'm afraid I can't speak to how they would mate with your Heresys though; a lot depends on how much you paid for your F5s to know if almost twice the price would still be a good deal. But if you're simply looking for a more robust surround that will provide you a fuller-range signal over a wider lisenting area, you can't go wrong with the KSP-S6--they don't even make the vaunted Reference surrounds with that design! Good luck.

---------------- On 1/10/2005 5:26:57 AM silversport wrote: The KSP-S6s are one step up the food chain for surround speakers...they are of the dipole variety (not good for multichannel music listening I'm told)...If you were going to use your multichannel 5.1 system, would you "upgrade" to the KSP-S6s or stick with the KSF-S5s...(I would RATHER have Heresy rears but alas, room is somewhat tight.) Thanks for any help. Bill ---------------- I guess the answer would depend on what speakers you wanted to match the surrounds to--are you matching to another set of KSF mains or something else, perhaps the Heresy line you mentioned? If you're a purist about voice matching and you've got KSF mains, you'd probably want to stick with KSF surrounds to keep the voice-match between drivers as close as possible. In theory, this would help you maintain a more seamless soundfield for surrounds/panning effects that wouldn't call attention to the change between speakers/sound sources. However, the KSP-S6s were also the only "sanctioned" surround match for the Legend series (I used to have a pair myself before I went with all matching KLF-C7s for side and rear surrounds) so they're pretty difficult to find, what with both Legend AND Synergy series owners looking to snag the few remaining sets floating around Audiogon or eBay. But if you're just asking in general which would be preferable, the KSP-S6s are certainly a beefier speaker with two cones and two horns to the KSF's 1 and 2 design. I believe with the S6 you'd get a more uniformly dispersed soundfield since you'd have a full-range signal spread across all 180 degrees of the speaker's coverage; the KSF surround only offers a single woofer at the 90 degree point and two horns off-axis from each other. This could conceivably lead to "holes" in frequency response depending on the listener's location in relation to the speaker or its various drivers. However, in a small room like yours, such placement issues may not be a major factor; in which case, you might not notice any real advantage of one over the other beyond the obvious "voicing" differences of the KSF vs. KSP drivers and horn array (of which I cannot comment since I've never heard the KSF line myself).

---------------- On 10/25/2004 5:34:08 AM redtop wrote: . . . One question...would you mind sharing the info on the paint you used? A couple of my 30's could use some touch up... ---------------- I just lucked into the paint at the local Wal Mart--the cabinet was so badly beat up I figured anything would be better than nothing and I REALLY didn't want to try sanding down the veneer finish and re-painting. It's called Krylon Color Creations, Acrylic Latex Enamel Indoor/Outdoor paint, Black Satin (color code KDH5005). I swear, the new speaker's finish is a dead ringer for the original black satin paint on the other KLF speakers! Captain--I honestly don't know what relocating the ports would do, if anything. I left them in place as I believe the other HornEd types have done. Part of the reason was that I didn't want to compromise the enclosure any more than it already had been by pounding off another side of the box; the other part was that it was just easier to leave the back panel alone. Sonically speaking, I don't think the location of the ports are as critical as the number, length and diameter, but someone more knowledgeable of acoustic design should probably chime in on that point.

---------------- On 10/24/2004 2:54:30 PM SCOOTERDOG wrote: Sweet! Welcome to the custom center club. I used the midrange horn out of a KLF30 but went with the alnico T35 (aka k77) for the high frequency horn, woofers are from a RF7. Enjoy, makes a huge difference in dialog for movies and excellent center for music when playing dvd audio discs or sacd discs. attached is a pick of mine scooter ---------------- Interesting mix of drivers, what kind of crossover network did you use--RF7, Legend, custom?

And here's a shot with it sitting under the plasma TV with the grille cloth attached. Now...what to do about those KLF-C7s around the back--maybe another 3-4 KLF-20s?!

Well, it only took me about 5 years, but I've FINALLY finished my home theater, HornEd-ized KLF-20 center channel and all! The fronts are now KLF-20s all across, and 4 KLF-C7s on the back and side surrounds. I had been using an unmodded KLF-10 simply laid on its side as the center channel, but the difference now having all the same drivers, and having the horns oriented for horizontal play, ,makes it just THAT much more of an incredible surround experience! For those of you on the fence about modding a full-range speaker to act as a center channel--all I can say is that you will NOT be disappointed. I had considered trying to make the motor-board myself, but I'm glad I went with a cabinet maker who just did the work for me. I did end up painting the whole thing, but found an incredible enamel satin paint that is a dead-ringer for the Klipsch's black satin finish. I was worried at first because the used KLF-20 I bought off eBay for this project was REALLY beat up--but after the paint dried, you'd be hard pressed to tell where any of the scuffs and scratches used to be. I'm glad I decided not to try a sheet or two of laminate to give the speaker a new lease on life (this was suggested by a couple of thoughtful posters on this board)--it may well have worked in the end, but I don't think I would have EVER got the finish smooth enough and the results using the paint were better than I could have hoped for! Anyway, I thought I'd post a couple pics of the speaker just before going live and one in its new home. The open-faced picture doesn't really do the finish justice...the flash made it look like there were several spots where unfinished wood was showing through around the corners, but the actual finish is matte black all across the front of the MDF motor-board. BTW, if anyone is interested in upgrading their KLF-C7 center channel to a monster, full-range Legend center channel, I've also posted the KLF-10 I was using on eBay for a steal starting under $80--condition is about as factory fresh as you can get.

---------------- On 9/5/2004 8:57:26 AM ironwoods wrote: Hi, no. If the OEM only has a 2 pronger, you're OK. I'd only worry if it was the other way around. I'm surprised the female plug fits. I don't have any of that fancy-shmancy gear. ---------------- Thanks for the feedback. By OEM I'm assuming you mean the components and not the cord--just making sure. The female end does indeed fit into the socket though it's not as tight a connection as I would have hoped! Thanks again!

I recently bought a new power cable from a friend on another board and wanted to audition any of the "supposed" advantages of upgrading such items myself before investing more heavily into a hobby like this. However, both of the components I wanted to try the cable on (sub and receiver) have 2-blade IEC sockets while the power cable has a 3-blade IEC connector with a ground pin and 2 blades on the electrical plug. I understand that the ground pin connects the metal frame of the actual component to the electrical ground in wall plug. However, let's say I go ahead and plug the cable into my 2-blade components anyway; is there any danger involved with having the ground pin connected at the wall receptacle but no associated blade to make the connection at the component end? Thanks!

---------------- On 8/21/2004 4:32:19 PM rdfish1 wrote: I searched this site and found a thread directing me to "snapbug.com" or something like that, and it has tones that can be played. I was trying to download them to CD so i could play them in my stereo and test my subwoofer but couldn't get it to work. What am i doing wrong? How do I do it? Are there better sites or better ways to do this? I have never downloaded anything from the web but the SVS guy said i could do it. ha easier said than done for me. ---------------- The snapbug site is a common destination for bass test tone junkies. However, unless your CD or DVD player can also read MP3s, the problem you might be running into that you need to convert the .MP3 files to standard CD .WAV files (16-bit, 44.1 khz sampling), or have the CD mastering program do it for you. If you use someting like Nero or Roxio's recorders, just make sure you choose the option to make an "Audio CD" from whatever menu systems you have and the program should convert the file formats for you during the pre-burn/file processing. Then the finished CD-R will have the MP3s as separate tracks that are playable on virtually any CD or DVD player.

---------------- On 8/30/2004 9:55:32 AM malechi wrote: $450 is the price limit. New or Factory Reconditioned? I'm thinking of the AVR-1082 but is there something else out there I should consider? What about the AVR-1705 or AVR-1905??? listening area is 13.5x24x7.5 ---------------- If you can find one, I would consider going with the 1905 given that you've set your price limit at $450 and are set on Denon. The 1905 offers enough amps for a 7.1 application if you want it, and if not, you can always use the back surround amps to power a Zone 2 set of speakers (that's the only thing I really miss in my 1705). Otherwise, the two you've mentioned are virtually identical. I think the 1082 is a bit more powerful but has fewer video inputs (component) and no PL2x decoding. I've bought two factory reconditioned Denon products and never had an issue, but you need to judge whether the added warranty is worth the extra $$ (though at this low a price point, I'd probably opt for new). Just my $.02

---------------- On 5/13/2004 6:41:03 PM iwillwalk wrote: I'm trying to get my camera to download a pic. The klf 10 has been transformed into a center. looks like a big c-7. got the idea from horned. he was the first to make other board members start doing it. i'll work on the pic they would be great with your klf 20's anyone else think so? ---------------- The KLF-10 works awesome as a center channel with the 20s (I have one myself)--I don't even have mine HornEd-ized for horizontal play but you'd never know it from the sound that baby produces up front! Actually, I'm in the process of modding a single KLF-20 I got off eBay for center channel duty myself. When I'm done, I'll have a single KLF-10 (unmodded) for sale as well--anyone here thinking of getting iwillwalk's set and still wants a PAIR of KLF-10s for surrounds might be able to put a whole center/rear array together between the two of us!

Thanks everyone, I think I will give the PartsExpress route a try.

So if this stuff is adhesive, I simply cut a big strip off to fit the side of the speaker I want to "renew" and just glue it down...no sanding, staining or other prep work? How smooth is the finish...anything I special I need to do to make sure it doesn't bubble up or come off prematurely? Thanks for the replies...I'm anxious to learn more. - J.T.

I've searched through the archives, but most people seem to be asking about changing black speakers to some other color. I have a single KLF-20 I bought off eBay that I'll be modding for center channel duty. But the cabinet is pretty scuffed up and since this will be a center channel sitting right below our plasma TV, I wanted the cabinet to look as nice as possible. What do you all in the know recommend? I've seen some recommendations for steel wool to polish off the current color on Klipsch cabinets...will that be apprpriate for the ultra thin layer of laminate on the Legend? What about a stain or other treatments for the black finish--how can I get this speaker to look as close to new as the rest of my gear? I'm not a wood-finishing guy so I'm not quite sure where/how to start. Thanks! - J.T.

---------------- On 2/20/2004 8:26:02 PM HornEd wrote: Someone with the know-how and equipment can knock one of these out of MDF in less than two hours... less for additional ones. If the horozontalized center is to go under your screen, put the horn tweeter on top of the midrange... and the reverse if it is to go above the screen. Short tweeter waves get sopped up early... so the closer they are on a plane with your ear... the more you get. Last year I modified my six KLF-30 Legend Theater by horizontalizing the three rear KLF-30s and placing them on brackets about five feet above the floor. This allows better dispersion of the sound for the 40-60 folks who enjoy the Klipsch sound. To maximize the horizontal dispersion (e.g., allow seating closer to the rear array) the woofers are mounted as close to the ends of the cabinet. However, for the center, I mount the woofers as close to the center as possible. This provides better anchoring of the center sound (since the left and right speakers are mounted vertically on either side of the screen) and also tends to increase the legibility of the sound IMHO. Since I have been "out of Klipsch pocket" for awhile, this info comes late... but I trust it will benefit someone else who is into the total joy that better timbre matching makes of multi-channel music and DVD videos. -HornEd ---------------- Hey HornEd, good to see you back...I hope life has been treating you well. Actually, during the interim from this last post, I managed to snag a single KLF-20 to match my other KLF-20s in the front. We're picking it up from a guy in FL next week then I'll have to find someone with the skill to make the new motorboard. I'll definitely set up the driver array as you mentioned. Not sure what I'm going to do with that extra KLF-10 now--probably eBay or here (maybe someone else wants to make a KLF-10 center for their Legend setup?). I had thought about using it as a center rear, but I have 4 KLF-C7s in a rear surround array right now and I really like the way the surrounds/pans are perfectly balanced from one speaker to the next--I would think throwing a single KLF-10 between 2 C7s would cause a little discontinuity in the soundfield. Any way, I'll be sure to post my final impressions of an all KLF-20 front soundstage (though it can't possibly compare to the great KLF-30s-in-the-round of our good friend Ed). Cheers! - Jason

---------------- On 2/2/2004 5:24:21 PM HansHurt wrote: Howdy folks, I currently have the Quintet II system w/ KSW-10 sub, and would like to utilize the 7.1 functionality of my receiver (Sony STRDA100ES), but as I am sure you are all aware, the Quintets aren't sold seperately. Would two SF-1's for the front do the job (using the quintet's for surround) or are the RSX-4's in the front a better option? Btw, I am 50/50 on listening to music and watching movies. What would you suggest? I am on a tight budget (say $400.00) Thank you ---------------- I wouldn't be so sure about not finding the Qunits individually, though I admit to not knowing the difference between the Quintet 1 and 2. However, I used to see the Quintet monitors on ubid and Vanns all the time when I was thinking about putting a small bedroom setup together, and there are several auctions on eBay right now for just single pairs in white or black. But I agree that you should keep the same "family" of speakers all around; even at the output levels of the Quintets, it will make for a much more uniform and seamless surround field.

---------------- On 1/30/2004 12:45:38 AM easy2533 wrote: I have a pair of KLF-30 mains, a KLF-C7 center and four KSB1.1's as my surround and front effect speakers (Yamaha DSP-A1 Amp). Obviously, the KSB1.1's are washed out by the Legends. The Klipsch "perfect match" for surrounds are the KSP-S6 surrounds which, of course, are no longer inproduction/no longer avaliable. I have the opportunity to pick up a pair of KLF-10's that I am thinking of using for rear effect/surround speakers. Why should I buy "di-pole wide dispersion" surrounds vs. a perfectly matched (voice/timbre) set of KLF-10's. Do the smaller surrounds contribute that much to the creation of the rear sound field as to outweigh the KLF-10's? Thanks for your input...... ---------------- I would also encourage you to go the KLF route. The timbre matched performance of the KLF series pulling surround duty (in my case, 4 KLF-C7s tipped on end) has FAR outperformed the KSP-S6s I used to have. The overall soundfield is much more uniform and the transition from speaker to speaker is far less noticeable than when I used to listen through the smaller dedicated "surround" speakers. The change in effect wasn't night and day, but it was appreciably different enough that I ended up selling the vaunted KSP-S6s in favor of 4 direct-radiating speakers. Although the C7s aren't as capable as the KLF-10s down low, I think you'll be VERY pleased at the results if you add a set of KLF-10s to the rear of your HT. The only thing you have to consider is that the floor standing KLFs are going to be slightly more directional than smaller surrounds (that you can mount higher) or WDST surround speakers (that purposefully diffuse the surround channels). In our case, we don't move around in our HT at all when we're watching movies, nor do we have seating to accommodate a lot of off-axis listeners, so we didn't need the benefits of the "surround sound from everywhere" capabilities of the KSP-S6s--which I'm sure is part of why we're so happy with the job the KLF-C7s have done for us. If this also describes your situation, then I personally think it's a no-brainer to go with the KLF-10s. Let us know what you finally end up choosing. - J.T.

---------------- On 11/14/2003 11:39:33 AM DMF wrote: I can certainly understand the utility of a wide dispersal technology in a 5.1 environment, where the surrounds have to provide 270' of ambient coverage (each speaker 270/2=135'). But it seems that in a 7.1 environment (with two side and two rear surrounds) the sound from each speaker can be (should be?) more localized (each speaker 270/4=68'). Thoughts? ---------------- Having HAD a set of WDST speakers for my Legend-based HT, I personally find the four direct-radiating route to be more satisfying as the rear surround-field is (IMHO) more seamless and robust than when I was using the WDST KSP-S6s. Part of that preference may be due to the fact that we don't move around a whole lot in our HT so we don't really need the "surround sound from everywhere" aspect of the WDST design--if you have a large HT area and want to make sure that everyone can hear the directionality of the surround soundfield regardless of where they're sitting, then maybe the WDST route is for you; otherwise, I personally prefer direct-radiating speakers for surrounds. Regards - J.T.

---------------- On 9/1/2003 5:14:44 PM Craig6519 wrote: Snails pace, how do you have the C7's mounted? Are they on shelfs or what? Do you have any pics? Craig ---------------- I'll work on some pics soon though it's nothing magical and not much to look at yet--that's the next stage of my HT upgrades. All I've done is turn each speaker on end and CAREFULLY pry the little Klipsch logo off so that the speaker grills are solid black and don't have a sideways triangle breaking up the front. I thought about using shelves but the C7s are pretty heavy. For now, the side rear surrounds are sitting on speaker stands that put them at just about the right height--slightly higher than ear level on each side and about 1 foot behind the listening area (back edge of the couch). The back rear surrounds are directly behind the prime listening area and sitting slightly lower on solid oak filing cabinets which we're going to stain to match the rest of our furniture--essentially they're just heavy block speaker stands that are functional in another capacity as we're going to be using them to store important papers. I suppose purists could argue that we could get some resonance from the cabinets, but we NEVER listen to anything so loudly in our HT that we actually rattle the furniture.

---------------- On 9/1/2003 3:50:26 PM Craig6519 wrote: I'm thinking about setting up a 7.1 sysytem with my exisiting KLF-30's and C-7, I don;t have room for Legend towers in the rear or sides, My question is would you think four WDST speakers or Four direct radiating? Or maybe a set of each? Lastly I know Klipsch never made matching surrounds for the legends and thet the KSP-S6 were the best match, we'll they are too expensive and hard to find now. I was wondering which models you suggest? Thanks Craig---------------- Craig Check out my signature line for my recommendations on a Legend-based 7.1 system--if you can't have 30s all around, the next best thing for a virtually perfect tone and timbre-match is using the Legend series' own KLF-C7s for side and rear surrounds. The C7's are beefy, excellent, nearly full-range speakers that out-gun a number of other manufacturer's full-range offerings. When tipped on end, the C7's horns are even oriented for better/wider dispersion than when the speaker is used horizontally as a traditional center channel. Having HAD a set of the much vaunted KSP-S6s for my Legend-based HT, I personally find the four direct-radiating route to be more satisfying as the rear surround-field is (IMHO) more seamless and robust than when I was using the WDST S6s. Part of that preference may be due to the fact that we don't move around a whole lot in our HT so we don't really need the "surround sound from everywhere" aspect of the KSPs--if you have a large HT area and want to make sure that everyone can hear the directionality of the surround soundfield regardless of where they're sitting, then maybe the WDST route is for you; otherwise, I would encourage you to check eBay or ubid for some KLF-C7s. Let us know what you finally end up choosing! Good luck - J.T.

---------------- On 8/17/2003 6:10:16 PM NikonosV wrote: Sounds like the line conditioner will be a good idea. The Monster gets mixed review on audioreview.com. Anybody ever tried Panamax? The Home Theater store her in big D uses them. Will definately ck out the triplite on E-Bay idea. ---------------- I have a Panamax power conditioner. When I had a small blue/green discoloration in the upper left corner of my TV's picture tube, running the power cords AND cable through the Panamax got rid of the trouble spot. Plus, I was using it in Germany on a 2000W 220-110V transformer. Long story short...I once had a huge spike through the transformer that completely blew the entire Panamax unit, but all my connected electronics were fine. Panamax even replaced my damaged unit at no charge. I agree with the others that have posted here--the surge protection is definitely a good thing, and a little AC cleaning never hurts, but I don't think you should be spending more on a line conditioner than you have on the components you're trying to protect (something about moderation is a good rule here). - J.T.