Cut-Throat

I have been a 'Computer Audiophile' for over 5 years. I have over 1 Terra Byte of Music ripped to a Hard Drive that I most never Play anymore. Mostly because I use Spotify which has over 25 Million Tracks to choose from. I use a Squeezebox Touch into a DAC. Can you briefly tell me what this service could do for me? IOW ...Is this another streaming service? or something else entirely ??? I just can't understand exactly what this service would give me. Can you explain Simply ?

I use a 1.8 watt per channel 45 Amp (Welborne DRD Starchief) on my 114 db Oris Horns. I also use 400 watt per channel Class 'D' amps on the Khorn Bass Bins. For most of my Jazz Music the 45 amps were plenty good for me. When I had a friend over that wanted to hear 'Chest Thumping Bass', he would send my 45 amps into clipping. So then I started Bi-amping which was a relatively cheap tweak. The Class D amps only cost $800 and included an active X-over. Now when he comes over, I have plenty of Bass. That being said, I could live with just the 45 amps which gave me plenty of music in the upper 80dbs in my 28 x 21 room.

I agree with Schu. There are some important numbers, just not the unqualified THD numbers. Have a look at input sensitivity, does the wattage double when the impedance of the load is halved (approximately). Fortunately, Klipsch speakers usually do not present a difficult load and they usually have tons of efficiency (which also means any hiss or hum will come through). So reviews done with lower efficiency speakers or difficult loads (electrostats etc) are not very useful. Well, certainly Specs make a difference. But they tell you Absolutely Nothing on whether you will like the amp or not.

Yup, Specs mean almost nothing...You have to listen to them. There has got to be some forum members near you who could give you an audition.

Another Option if you would like would be to refurbish these amps yourself. I also own a pair of these and have an assembly manual and parts list. If you know how to run a multi-meter, and soldering iron and have a basic understanding of electricity, it would not be difficult to do this yourself. I have built a number of amps from kits and it is not that difficult. If you are patient and have attention to detail, you could un-assemble these amps and then follow the assembly instructions and re-build them. It would be a satisfying project when you were finished. The key element is to Not be in a hurry.

What was amazing to me, is that the guy claimed to have Avantguard Trios in his main system. At a $75 Grand Pricetag. If that were the case, I would not spend much time listening to the Belles. I think that is all he needed to say, instead of moving.

Believe me, that was done! ...... And that was the easy part! .... My wall faces an unfinished part of my Basement. (My Shop) and the wall is always open! BTW - Electrical Wiring is not the only source of Hum and usually is NOT the cause of Ground Loop Hum. As I had said in my original post in this thread, There are many causes and solutions to a Ground Loop Hum, applying other people's solutions to your system, will usually not work. You have to troubleshoot your own solution to your own system.

In my particular case this was accomplished by plugging all of the components into the SAME OUTLET. Again, using different outlets all on the same circuit did not get rid of the ground loop hum.

They worked for you and that's what counts! ...... However, if you look at the Reviews for the link you supplied, you will see that they did not work for half of the people that bought them. They would not have worked for me as I don't even have balanced connections! ... That is the problem with Ground Loops!, If you buy solutions and start applying them, you will probably be disappointed! The best thing is to try to find the source of the Ground Loop and then apply a solution to that particular source.

The LOOP Not sure what you mean here, as yes I identified this as the Loop. Your solution of a Coax and Optical cable isolation would NOT have fixed this problem. Also these Isolation Transformers 'Break the Signal' and rely on the transformers to successfully reproduce them on the other side.... NO THANKS from me on that Solution!

Having spent about 10 years studying ground loop hum -- Both problems and solutions, I had to get really serious last year when I started Bi-amping with Class 'D' Amps on my Khorn Bass Bins...... With that said Tracking down Ground Loop Hum is more 'Art than Science'. There are many causes and many solutions. Before I started Bi-amping my Solution was to float the ground on the plug with a cheater plug, but I added a GFCI on the Amp Circuits, which made it much safer than a 3 prong plug on a non GFCI circuit. This eliminated my hum with single amplifiers. I had all of the 'Right Stuff' to prevent Ground Loop Hum and the experts I consulted (BTW - All of the Electricians and EE's, and Amp Builders that I hired were zero Help). I had a Separate Sub-Panel with Circuits totally dedicated to my Stereo System. Hospital Grade Outlets... The Best of Everything! And yet I had a 60 cycle hum when Bi-amping. Everything had 3 prong plugs (We never had this problem in the 60s and 70s when stereo gear had only two plugs and no path to ground to amplify.) So, I spent about 3-4 weeks completely disassembling my Stereo System and hooking up 1 component at a time until I got the 'dreaded ground loop hum'. I had a single dedicated circuit on a separate sub-panel with 12 gauge romex connecting three Hospital Grade outlets on that circuit about 4 feet apart from each other with nothing else on the circuit other than 2 monoblock amplifiers and a pre-amp. As soon as I plugged in an amplifier on another outlet on the same circuit, the ground loop hum would start. The solution turned out to be a high quality extension cord from one Amplifier to the same outlet as the other Amplifier and Pre-amp. IOW - All components plugged into the same OUTLET. Not the same circuit! Having multiple outlets on the same circuit caused enough 'Difference of Potential' between the Outlets themselves (Even though it was probably Mili-Volts) to get Amplified and fed back to the Bass Bins causing the Dreaded HUMMMM. My system is dead quiet now with 114db Horns and 104db Bass Bins. Every house is different and every solution is different depending on the components, wiring etc. --- You have to be willing to completely disassemble your system and track a 'Solution' down.... It's not that you have a 'Problem', because Mili-Volts are not a problem unless an Amplifier is Amplifying the Signal and playing it out your Bass Bins. Everything can be perfect according to an Electrician, EE or an Amp designer, but you may still Have 'Ground Loop Hum'. You have to keep trying things until you find a solution for your system. Everything can be perfectly Safe, Problem free, Right up to Code and hum like a Banshee....It's up to you to find a solution, because no one will help you!

Well, I certainly can't answer your question, but I do have the schematics that may be able to. I have other stuff such as Parts Layout,lists, Power up stuff, Just ask

Pretty much exactly the route I have gone. Except that I went from S/S to Tube Hybrid to P/P to 300B to 2A3 to 45 DRD45 and now have the Welborne Starchiefs and now Bi-amping the Starchiefs with Class 'D' digital amps on the Bass Bins

I use both a 45 and 2a3 amp. I prefer the 45 amp. I used them in a large room and they had plenty of volume for me. However, when some friends came over some of them liked more Bass and Volume which the 45 amps could not handle. When I swapped out the Mid and Tweeter for an Oris Horn, I had to start Bi-amping, which is something you should consider. I now have a Solid State amp on the Bass Bins with about 300-400 watts per channel, which frees up the 45 amp to drive the Oris Horns. Not lacking in power for anyone now! I rarely see someone going from a 45 amp to other amplifiers. I've had mine for 10 years now.

Pat, Just make sure they aren't smoking! Tubes and Humans should not Smoke!

It was a only comparison in terms of convenience and features and price....not Digiital. BTW --- I know professional photographers and they believe that anyone that is not shooting digital today is a fool. There are many comparisons of technology in the past. There were proponents of horses that could not be replaced with cars..... So it goes.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Yes, I understand. I've been asking about these things in another thread also, and I am trying to figure out why this isn't as appealing to me. It seems like a no brainer. Mark, I know exactly why it isn't appealing to you. It's because you've never used it. This is like a lot of technology that has come along. As an example, when I first got my squeezebox about 5 years ago I had about 4 of my audiophile friends over for an evening. After demoing the Squeezebox and my DAC against my CD player the guys all said that they could not tell the difference, but that they would never go that route, because they liked touching the CD jacket, looking at the art work and many other reasons that i can't remember. I then showed them a Passport disc the size of a Deck of Cards with my 5000 CDs on it and that I can now take all of my music when traveling. (BTW - I am currently in the Bahamas for the winter, and yes I have all of my music as well as access to Spotify. I have a Portable Powered speaker with me.) I then let them hold my laptop, and select various songs, and play with the listening queue, without them having to get up load a CD and skip to the track they wanted. At the end of the evening they were totaling up the cost of the DAC, asking me how I ripped a CD and wanted to dive in to Computer Audio. One guy that was Dead Set against it that evening, continually thanks me for 'getting him into PC Audio'. I am never going back... I sold all 5 of my CD players 4 years ago. I have a Cheap DVD Player for movies. that's it! BTW -- Did you notice any improvement when you switched from Film Cameras to Digital Cameras? There is a bigger improvement from CD audio to PC Based audio than cameras.

Yes, Spotify is like listening to your own music library. Play songs whenever you want as much as you want. Also, the quality is so much better than Pandora (Which is not rally listenable to me on my main rig). As a matter of fact, there is a pluggin on my Squeezebox developed by the Squeebox community called 'Smart Mix'. If you find a track you like it will select music from your own personal library and/or Spotify and intermingle them. I really don't know what I'm listening to, whether the track came from my personal library of over 5000 CDs or Spotify.

Mark, I have all of my 5,000 CDs ripped to Disk. I can find an Album now in seconds without leaving the listening position. I can queue up single tracks from multiple albums. I never 'lose' music any more. I have not put a CD in for over 4 years. As far as streaming, I subscribe to Spotify Premium for $10 a month. It is a very high quality MP3 at 320kbps. I have had numerous audiophiles over to my place and they could not tell the difference with CD quality. This is a hotly debated topic, but most agree that they had to 'strain' to hear a difference and often got it wrong. Forget Pandora though as it is 128kbps and the differences are very obvious. Not all MP3s are the same! The Big advantage to streaming is I now have over 25 million tracks in my library. I can usually find the requested album if someone comes over. When I find a track I like, I can select 'Play other tracks like it'.... I just sit back and let the streaming service introduce me to new music. When I find something I like, I save it as a 'Favorite'. I could never go back to loading a CD or Album and hit Play.

The manufacturer quit selling Squeezeboxes, but if EOL means 'End of Life' that implies that they will no longer work. Also if that is the case my entire Audio System is EOL.... I've got Tubes in my SET amps that are working just fine that reached 'EOL' in 1938. And the Squeezebox is very user friendly and is how many people got started in digital audio!

If I were you (I also run SET amps), I'd pick up a Squeezebox Touch on e-bay and go from there. Assuming you have a home network to connect it to, you'll be set for a long time. After you learn from this, you can tweak. I still run 4 Squeezebox touches and no one yet has shown me a better digital solution.

Yes, I also had the Mesh version. I have had the best luck with Old stock RCAs, National Union etc. Currently running RCA Globe UX-245s

I have Welborne 45 Star Chief Amplifiers and used to own the DRD45s. I did try a pair of these tubes and could not get them to quit humming in my Amps. No amount of adjusting the hum pot would quiet them, So I sent them back. There are quite a few conversations about them over on Audio Asylum. There are people that love them and others that maintain that they really are not a 45 tube at all. They were the only 45 tube that I could not get to work in my amps. They are HUGE ! - They are over twice the size of a Normal 45 tube. let us know how it goes with them.

The most critical specification of speaker cables is Length. If they are not long enough to reach your speaker from the amplifier, you will not hear anything!

The first thing I would do is swap tubes (One at a time) from the left channel to the right channel and see if the problem follows. It may just be a weak tube. Anyway this is always my first step in diagnosing a problem with a tube amp. Thankfully, I rarely have to go beyond this first step.