DTLongo

Herewith a set of photos of an ALK crossover upgrade to my 2003 Klipschorns. They are his full top-of-the-line setup, a pair of Trachorns plus his ES-400T and ES-5800 extreme-slope crossovers. Al Klappenberger, who lives nearby, himself performed the install 10/31/2009. Further info is in the captions to the pictures. There are some 20 photos in all. I'll post listening impressions (so far, favorable) later after I've lived with the speakers for some days and had time to audition more material that I know well on them. #1 - Trachorns and networks in Al's car

Got the pictures, thank you. Brought back memories.

Couldn't see your photos. Can you possibly re-send? What does BOTL mean? I had a pair of used Aristocrats in college in the early 1960's. I forget exactly what speakers were in them. Still one of the most handsome cabinet designs ever, IMHO. Will be curious to hear your opinion of how they sound versus your Klipschorns after you get the work done.

"Since you have both Khorns and a Belle in a front array, as do I, how would you describe the subjective difference(s) in their sound, excluding the bass?" To my unscientific ear, excluding the bass they sound virtually identical. As a practical matter, though, I run the center-channel Belle a couple of decibels down, so the Khorns carry the main load while the Belle anchors the center nicely. With the Khorns alone the center image shifts as you move around the room as with any two-channel pair of speakers. With the Belle in, the center channel is more firmly anchored (as is the case in a home theater). On Saturday 10/31 Al K. is coming over to install his ALK extreme-slope crossovers and Trachorns in my two Klipschorns. After that there will be a distinct difference between them and the stock Belle. But since I hold the Belle back those couple of DB or so, I don't expect any negative effect by the mismatch on overall listening pleasure.

At age 67 and using a neat little program called Sweepgen and piping the sound card output through my main system, I'm good up to 10K hz on my Klipschorns but there's definite falloff above that. Can still hear 13K hz directly on-axis but faintly. Both ears about the same (unscientific). But the interesting thing is, perhaps the key to audiophile enjoyment is not how high one can hear but how sensitively in terms of discrimination. For example, I sure can hear differences in articulation and precision between Klipschorns, say on capturing and bringing out symphonic inner voices of the orchestra like winds, and other speakers. Likewise with MP3's. MP3's sound OK on most normal speakers and certainly in automobiles where background sounds mask any imperfections. But I can sure hear the difference between MP3's and regular CD's of the same material through those Klipschorns. Not dramatic and rather subtle but the difference is certainly there.

I'm the local customer Al referred to in the previous post. He's scheduled to come over October 31 to install his extreme-slope networks and Trachorns in my 2003 Klipschorns. When he does I will take and post a few pictures in a new string. He lent me a pair of Trachorns for a week a while ago that I screwed the Khorn squawker drivers onto and sat them atop the speakers for a good trial listen (see picture). The improvement with the Trachorns alone was very noticeable. That led me to save up for the whole upgrade. With the Trachorns + ES crossovers the improvement should be even more, though Al has cautioned me that it won't be as dramatically more better (sic - my words not Al's) than it was with the Trachorns alone. With the upgrades I imagine I will have a pair of what will truly be the "world's best loudspeakers" or among the very best. Quite a dream come true for this 67 y.o. who got started in this audiophile hobby at the age of around 12 building Heathkits and homemade speaker enclosures as a little boy in Boston in the 1950's!

Try www.simplyspeakers.com. Located in FL they sell new replacement drivers for Large Advents among other brands. They're currenty offering replacement Large Advent woofers for $129 apiece. I have a pair of vintage-1980's LA's whose enclosures are near-mint and whose tweeters and Xovers are good but whose woofers rotted out some years ago. To preserve those fine speakers for use as front mains in my HT I ordered a pair of new woofers from Simply Speakers some three years ago. They fit and work perfectly.

Stereo output from both ends. Treble from front, bass from back, plus peeccolo acompaniment. Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF)?

"Dear all, I'm new to this group and only since yesterday fully aware of Klipschorns. I could listen and compare the big Palladiums against the 60th Anniversary Klipschorn." Not to pry, but with your obvious audiophile-awareness, how is it that you only now "discovered" Klipschorns? Also, can you describe more specifically your impressions on Khorns versus the new big Palladiums?

Masochism comes in many ways!

Veddy nice. But how do you access the rear of your equpment for wiring adjustments, etc.?

"...I asked why he liked those so much and his response was because they were electrostatic." That was a pretty dumb reply by the installer. The Levinsons may be fine speakers but not necessarily just because they are electrostatic. Stick with the Cornwalls and take your sweet time. Run in straight-stereo they will already be a huge improvement over the small speakers in your TV. For the time being you could also run the TV speakers simultaneously from the TV's own amplifier as an ersatz center channel. You might have to look around for a center channel speaker to match the timbre of the Cornwalls but a Heresy may be a good fit if you can find a single one of those. Surrounds and rears are less critical. And of course in due time you will want/need a good subwoofer, or two.

My impression is that with most rock/pop/country popular music you don't need a sub with Klipschorns. Assuming good amplification they sing fine down to 45hz or 40hz or so, about as far down as such music reaches. And gawd knows you can crank them LOUD if that's your thing, and they still sound unstrained and loafing. But for symphonic music especially organ, bass drum and other deep stuff, they sound thin. A subwoofer is the fix even though such may seem like coals-to-Newcastle with mighty Klipschorns. In my case I've emplyed a Velodyne S1500R sub, and a home modified JBL-380 (see photo). The top-quality Velo dug deep but sounded sterile. I now use it in my home theater room in another part of the house. The big old ported JBL box modified with a dual voice coil 15" $150.00 Memphis car speaker run off my amp's subwoofer output through a separate old amp sounds more "musical." Cellos and double basses sound resonantly like the real thing. The woof also digs impressively below 30hz for stuff demanding such. I guess the bottom line is that even the Mighty Klipschorn can benefit from a decent subwoofer on some material. It works for me.

There is a current long "Bose vs. Klipsch" string over on the Updates and Modifications forum that folks interested in this topic may want to take a look at.

I don't mean this in any way to be arrogant. I have been following this string with interest and I want to commend everyone who has spoken to the issue from a viewpoint of other than a priori Bose-bashing. I have 2003 Klipschorns. In an adjacent smaller back-up computer room and bedroom I have Bose 901 Series VI's, yes, purchased from a military PX abroad around 1988 and they like the Khorns are mint. Both sets are in audio- not home theater setups though the Klipsch room has a center channel 2004 Belle. The two speaker sets are different animals. For intense, no-holds-barred listening the Khorns of course get the nod. But the 901 VI's are much more easy to place and on their stands are visually very attractive to boot. For less-critical listening the Bose 901 VI's still acquit themselves remarkably well. Earlier I had a set of Bose 301's that are now with my ex-wife in the Washington D.C. area and I listen to them once in a while when I have occasion to visit back there. They're pretty nice too. They are honest speakers for the price, I think, which is not the usual case with overpriced Bose. Likewise, the current 901 VI's at ca. $1400.00 I think are an honest value for the price IF intended for use in pure, two-channel stereo. Their required equalizer complicates things for their use in any other way. Apart from the above-mentioned 301 and 901 exceptions, Bose is wayyy overpriced for the sonic quality that you get. But as others have noted Bose are aggressive marketers and get their ads into everywhere - cable TV, Parade Magazine, USA Today magazine, Time, Newsweek, AARP Magazine, even NARFE (National Association of Active and Retied Federal Employees) Magazine, and sundry others. (When is Klipsch going to advertise in NARFE Magazine?) Pretty remarkable. And as regards their Lifestyle-type home theater systems, for folks who want "invisible" speakers and a user-friendly interface, Bose fills that bill. Such folks don't know or care what they're missing sonically, and Bose does a brilliant job catering to them. Bose is a marketing case study for business-school purposes. So, objectively speaking it's a mixed bag. And I again applaud people in this string who have eschewed Bose-bashing to speak to issues more rationally.

I'm not familiar with the KSW10 specifically but based on my experience with an old vintage 1980's JBL 380 15" sub, I recommend that you give it a try. The 380 had a single-voice coil woofer designed to be run by a separate mono amplifier fed by a dedicated electronic crossover that came with the unit. Anyway, while I was on an assignment abroad my then teenage son destroyed the woofer driver trying it in a car application and I inherited back the original near-pristine enclosure and (now superfluous) crossover. So a year or so ago I tried putting a dual voice coil car subwoofer in there ($150.00 - see photo) and am running it through a separate old stereo amp off my main system's subwoofer output, with Klipschorns, no less. The speaker brand I found at Bullfeathers car audio is Memphis. Results: very nice, very musical. The big ported box yields a "warmer," more musical sound than my Velodyne S1500R especially on things like symphonic cellos and double bass. But it digs way down to belly-stirring sub-30 hz levels too. Be aware that car stereo speakers are typically 4-ohm impedance so you want to be sure your subwoofer amp can handle that. It may be more difficult to find a dual voice coil woofer with 8 ohm impedance if that is what your sub amp must have. It also may be that your KSW10 amp feeds a single-voice coil woofer. That's easily seen if you look at the back of the woofer. Is there one pair of voice coil inputs or two?

Another Rodrigues' 'toon that pertains...

"Pointy. It amazes me that this technology still sounds so good." Yep, back in the day we had our trusty little hand-microscopes to inspect stylus wear and records and that's what LP phono grooves do look like. Nowadays my turntable is a modest Audio-Technica with a USB output to dub into digital some favorite old LP's I've kept, a project I get to infrequently. It IS a wonder that that old electromechanical analog LP technology could sound as good as it did. It is still highly audiophile-seductive to see a record quietly spinning and the stylus and tonearm tracking it while the sound comes gloriously out of my Klipschorns. CD's spinning invisibly and MP3's doing their thing just don't evoke the same visual + sonic "romance." Of course one remembers the drawbacks, too. Clicks, pops and scratches, dirty LP's, worn styli, turntable wow, flutter and rumble, vibration feedback and all that. Still... The below Rodrigues cartoon pertains, hope you enjoy.

People on the forum may jump on me this but I've concluded that the midrange squawkers on my 2003 Klipschorns are "hot" and need to be dialed back some for a sweeter, less-forceful and more pleasant sound especially on symphonic music. Unfortunately the Klipsch crossover does not permit level-adjustment of the squawker and tweeter. My interim fix is an inexpensive two-channel graphic equalizer between my preamp and amp with the 500-2K hz range dialed back several db. My (much more expensive) permanent fix is a planned ALK top-of-the-line line crossovers + Trachorns upgrade that I hope to get in October. I trial-ran a pair of Trachorns with the stock Klipsch midrange driver for a week a while ago and they made a definite difference on vocals, instruments like oboe, and especially piano.

For the price ($650.00) asssuming you can replace the tweeters easily and they are otherwise in good working condition you can't go wrong. Re refinishing them, If I were you with nil wood experience I'd pay a professional furniture refinisher. Just guessing that that would cost perhaps considerably more than your purchase price but you'd have a sleek appearing pair of Belles as a result. New ones are no longer being produced so you'd have a collector's item. I imagine others on the forum will suggest crossover upgrades, etc. But especially if there is WAF involved I would go with the refinishing first and then live with the speakers for a while before upgrading the electronics. Visually the Belles are not Klipschorns but they are very good looking speakers in their own right and you'll love 'em. Consider adding a subwoofer.

Folks may be interested in reviews of the book of the above title over on Amazon.com - http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Wilbur-Klipsch-Life-Legend/product-reviews/1582442266/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 If the above link doesn't work go to www.amazon.com under Books and then "Paul Wilbur Klipsch." One of the reviews there is mine.

"BTW there is a product called Sphincterine, for just such occasions ..." I actually did Google Sphincterine and there apparently is such a product that exists...for humans, not cats. Very interesting for persons with relevant nether interests. I haven't had a problem with cat sphincterprints on my Klipschorns. Some pawprints yes that wipe right off but that's all. Occasionally the oldest of my three, a dinosaur mongrel Persian longhair named Smokey whom I adopted when he was already fully grown in 1996 and who must be now at least around 15 or 16 y.o., leaves a gift that ain't just sphincterish but is the whole enchilada. One or another of the two younger brats seem to be emulating him occasionally. But it's all on newspapers right next to the litter boxes, so tolerable. Part of my morning wake-up clean-up detail. Reminds one of our proper place. Of course, who are we to judge? As another poster noted, Egyptians used to revere cats as deities and cats have never gotten over that. And then there are Dogs. Go to the Garfield cartoon today (8/21/09), I shouldn't repeat it here because of copyright but look for it on Google.

"I also like the German Neuschwanstein Castle on the Speaker" Actually, it's not Neuschwanstein but Hohenzollern. The left one is Mont St.-Michel. Neuschwanstein sits atop my right Klipschorn, see photo. These castles plus the Tower of London and the Taj Mahal that I have were part of a subscription collection by Lenox Collections offered in the late 1990's, as I recall. They cost around $80.00 apiece back then. No idea what they're worth today, I should look on eBay sometime. .

The male on the left is Pookie. The female on the right is Peppie. They are both about a year old. jtnfoley, what means "lolcat"?

Taken today, August 20, 2009. Mozart's Symphony #41 was playing at the time.