KdAgain

Is this a mod that is shown somewhere in the Forum? I did some searching and couldn't find it. Thanks, Rod

I'm doing your option 2 with the Asus Essence ST Soundcard and am very pleased. Had been using it in old Dell XP machine, but recently built a new quad core HTPC. We have all media stored on a WHS server I built. Had to order another HD for it as our two 1.5 tb drives are almost full. We have all our photos, hundreds of CDs ripped to FLAC, about 150 ripped DVDs and about two hundred movies recorded from TV. For music I use JRiver MC15 because I believe it is the most accurate player. For ripped DVDs (soon BDs) and TV and recorded TV I'm using SageTV. Our mains are Klipschorns, centers are temporarily Heresy's. They will later become the sides when I build a new center. Sub is a Danley DTS-10. Temporarily using some old KEFs for sides. Our amps are a hodgepodge which will later be replaced with some Class D amps, except for the sub amp which is a Behringer EP 4000. So we are basically going straight from the soundcard to the power amps and am quite pleased with the results. I feel the Essence ST is a keeper. Also we don't have a hiss problem with it. Something to think about is by not needing an expensive receiver you can put the money into better amps or speakers. And I agree with you that it would take a very pricey receiver to get the same quality DACs that the Essence ST card has. We aren't doing any gaming. I know a fellow on the JRiver forum with the same card who is though if you would like me to put him in touch with you. Good luck. Rod

It's real easy to use. And so are the converters. I just like using one program for as much as I can as log as it does the right stuff. Regardles of how you do it isn't it great to have it on the computer? We have all our music, photos, movies and recorded TV on our Windows Home Server. Rod

Rudy - Why do you do that? MC's secure ripper is generally acknowledged to be one of the best - if not the best. Rod

I've been using JRiver MC for quite awhile. Have been using it on our HTPCwith XP but will soon be upgrading to Win 7. We use it with Asio on our internal Asus Audio Essence ST 5.1 card. Had previously used it with our EMU 0404-USB 2 channel DAC. It's a very powerful program for database management of all your media. Quite a learning curve, at least for me, on using some of those features. Lately they have done a lot of improvements on their audio portion and have a bunch of adjustability for setup in a multi channel environment. It seems fairly recognized that their SQ is among the best of the players. I have long wanted one Media program for everything - audio, video TV and Photos and have been hoping JRiver could be the one, especially because of their great SQ. Unfortunately I think that's a long ways off. We have been using it for Audio and video (ripped DVD's) and SageTV for TV including PVR functionality. When we recently got our HD plasma TV n our HT room I was hoping to be able to use it with JRMC. Since we only have Cable here (no OTA) the Hauppauge HD PVR looked like the only device to use to record HD TV. JRMC claimed support for it, but that ended up being very minimal - not even an on screen guide that would work with it. So we are having to stick with SageTV for the TV end. To allow use of one program as much as possible (WAF) we are now using SageTV for everything but critical 2 cannel listening. In our living room we have a Sage HD100 extender that is fed by our WHS server on the network. With a Harmony One remote and using Sage my wife can easily do everything - audio, video, tv, and even show her extensive photo collections that are picked up in Sage from our Adobe Photoshop Elements catalog on the server. We will eventually end up with a Harmony One remote in our HT room controlling the HTPC. BTW we are feeding our HTPC straight to our power amps - no receiver or pre/pro. I'm very happy with the setup with the only downside being we can' feed external signals to the HTPC. But that should be the topic of another thread. Thanks Rudy for starting this thread. I do think JRiver deserves a lot of credit for creating a very versatile player that has outstanding SQ. BTW Rudy I'm 'nwboater' on their Forum. Saw your post there the other day. Rod

For those with PC based audio systems there is the SRS Audio Sandbox and the updated version now called SRS HD Audio Lab. http://www.srslabs.com/store/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=38 I haven't tried it yet but recalled reading a review on an audio forum: http://audioaficionado.org/digital-music-servers/69-review-srs-audio-sandbox-has-dsps-time-come.html It is definitely not marketed in the audiophile world and I was disappointed to learn that it doesn't support Asio, although maybe the newer version does. Interesting that this review related it to the Hughes unit. When I get some time I may play with it. Has anyone here tried it? Rod

djk & DrTube, Based on your recommendations I went ahead and ordered the resistor and caps from Madisound. I got all new Bennic Poly caps for the crossovers while I was at it. Did get Poly for the 33 Mfd but guess I could have saved some money on Electrolytic there. I'm really looking forward to trying out these mods. Bet I'll be able to put my treble tone control back up a bunch! Thanks to both of you for all your help on this. Rod

djk - Thanks very much for your helpful post. I'll go ahead and get my other parts from Digikey, and go to Madisound for the crossover parts. It will be helpful to have the 20-25% rule of thumb for resistors. Thanks for the links on the caps and resistors. I notice the 15 Mfd Carli cap is 150 volts. Trust you feel this is high enough. Also since you didn't touch my question on "Audiophile caps" I also trust it's probably not worthwile to 'go there'. Sure a lot of Voodo in the topic - almost as bad as speaker wires and power cords! Thanks again, Rod

I am going to do the DrTube mods to my Heresy 1 (1983) heresy's and have some questions on the components: 1. The 12 ohm resistor. On similar mods I have seen 20 watt resistors called out. Would that be appropriate here? 2. For the 15 MFD 250 volt capacitor. A. Is electolytic okay or should it be non polarized? B. Is it worthwile to go to some of the more 'Audiophile' caps, or is general purpose okay? c. Any suggestion as to the particular caps to use? There are literally thousands available. I'm going to be ordering some other small parts from Digikey.com. Thanks very much for your help. Rod

Most of the forums on small room acoustics that I periodically check out refer to absorption, not diffusion. Most of the photos which are supposed to represent well treated rooms show primarily absorption. Artto is one of the few exceptions to this. For several years now I have read with great interest of his techniques and results. I only wish I lived closer to him - I would certainly beg a listen! I have also wondered if Klipschorns (which I own) need different treatment considerations than most speakers? I have come to somewhat of a conclusion that in a typical room that a combination of absorption, diffusion, and heavy bass trapping is perhaps the best answer. But how to learn to implement all of that is my dilemna! Rod

Whenever I get in a strong argument I always know I'm 'Right. I'm thoroughly convinced of it. Trouble is, the other person is just as convinced of his position. There is rarely a meeting of the minds! Just a lot of strutting and ruffling of the feathers. The difficulty for both of you here is that you are businesses and you are only turning people off to consideration of your products. And further I believe both of your products somewhat compete with the owner of this Forum. Klipsch has been very gracious in hosting you here and I strongly suggest that you take any more of your disagreement offline. Thanks, Rod

I do play things quite loud at times in our 19' x 13' x 7 room. Besides music we do a lot of movies. I can understand your comments about the impedance changes affecting the crossovers. But since we will be using active crossovers with one amp per driver it seems that this should not be an issue. Or am I missing something? If the above is a non issue, I'm still concerned about running them below their indicated frequency range. Rudy seemed pretty clear that he had a gap between 400-500. That is sure less than optimum. Also we don't know the power handling capability below 800 Hz. As I mentioned earlier, I can't go the cost or large size of the huge Jubilee horns, but are there others that I should consider? I wish I could do as Rudy did and build new bass bins. Unfortunately that's quite a ways down the road for both budget and time constraints. My compromise is to enclose the backs so I can pull them into the room. I should also mentiion that my Khorns are 1958 vintage with the old wood mid range horns. Another option would be to keep the system as 3 way, but use the BM-D750s to replace the tweeters crossing over much higher than 400. This unfortunately would complicate the 'Active' crossover/amp system and would require a new cabinet for the new horns. This is not sounding like a very appealing approach. Ugh! Thanks everybody for all your input here. Rod

speakerfritz - Thanks for the info. I'm trying to understand your comment about needing a steep crossover if using them at low volume (if I understood you correctly)? I'll be biamping the Khorns and new center. Will be using a DCX-2496 for crossover and time alignment so hopefully will have enough flexibility with individual gain controls and crossover steepness. I keep seeing the specs for frequency response and recommended crossover frequency and am a bit bewildered with the good results people seem to be getting with this horn'driver combination. I'm open to suggestions for other combos, but can't go the expense or size of the big Jubilee horn. Said another way, I sure do like the price and size of the PH-4525 & BM-D750! Rod

Speaking from experience, I don't believe that you've got any worries there: I've been using one of my "leftover K69s" with a PH-4525 horn as a center channel with a Heresy bass in between two Jubilees. It sounds pretty good to me--crossed below 450 Hz. I'm using an EV Dx38 crossover and a Crown D-75A to biamp the center.Chris Chris - Some encouraging words there. How does the center horn do with those big ones on the Jubes? And the 'little' Hersey bass too? Doesn't seem like great timber matching, but I'm very pleased that you are pleased! Are you also running a sub? Anyway thanks very much - you are giving me much more hope. Rod

djk, Very kind of you to offer a group buy. I'll certainly be interested once I confirm that this is the best way for me to go, ie with the khorns. There is the issue of pushing these hard to get them to play down to 400, and I still don't know how much of a problem that may be. Any way of finding out the differences between the BM-750 and the BM-D750? When I proceed I'll need 3 drivers and 3 horns for the 2 Khorns and the new center I'll build later. Thanks, Rod

djk - I checked the link you gave for the pdf of the BM-D750. I believe that's the one Rudy bought. But I'm curious about the first one - don't see a link to any info or pricing on it. It looks different, but do you believe it to be electrically and acoustically the same as the PAudio BM-D750? Thanks very much. Rod

SkyDover, Thanks very much for your reply. I took a look at the drivers on the link - boggling the choices. Trouble is it's tough to predict the SQ. So for now, unless someone comes up with a better idea, I'll probably go with Rudy's BM-D750 selection. Thanks for trying! Rod

Rudy, Thank you very much for your well thought out and helpful reply. I understand why you made the change to the new bass bins, but I'm not prepared to go that far yet. It's been awhile since I read your trials and tribulations with the PAudio Horns and Khorns - I need to go back and reread it all. I guess you had a bit of a gap between the low end of the PAudio and the bass bin, but how noticable was it? I don't mind spending the money on the BM-D750 drivers, but as I asked in another thread wondered if there might be a generic equivilant to this one such as Skydover found for the horn. Re the top end of the horn, did you run any sweeps to determine how high it will go? I think it's rated to 17k. I recently heard a very high SQ system (not Klipsch) with the speaker location optimized for soundstage and it was stunning. And with your results and others from getting the speakers out of the corners I can certainly see the large benefit of it. You suggested in another thread that I put backs on my Khorns to allow non corner location. I need to look further into the amount of work required, but will probably lean in this direction. Rudy it's very gracious of you to offer a listen to your system. Don't know if we can ever do it since we live way up in British Columbia, but I would sure love to. Thanks again, Rod

I'm not SkyDover, but what's the application? There are plenty of other cheaper drivers that should yield similar bandwidth at the expensive of a little extra distortion. Also, does it need to be a 2" driver? Dr. Who, Thanks for your interest. I'm putting my response in Rudy81s thread on the "P. Audio PH-4525 horn and BM-D750 (aka. K69). http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/134856/1402666.aspx#1402666 It seems the appropriate thread for this discussion. Rod

I'm not SkyDover, but what's the application? There are plenty of other cheaper drivers that should yield similar bandwidth at the expensive of a little extra distortion. Also, does it need to be a 2" driver? The above was in Rudy81s thread on "JCC DBB Speakers". I thought it more appropriate to be in this thread so am responding to Dr. Who here.The application is for my 1958 Khorns and a Center I hope to build later on. I have long planned to go Active and am in the process of acquiring equipment to do it. While Rudy had his Khorns he seemed very pleased with the PH-4525 & BM-D750 as replacements for his original mids and tweeters. If I can go 2 way, and at a reasonable cost as he did here I would like to. I'm suprised that this combo is going high enough to eliminate the tweeter and I know it's pushing the bass bin to go high enough with these. Thanks for suggesting cheaper drivers, but if there is much additional distortion I'm not sure I would want to do that. Re the 2" driver, it seems that most who have gone to the larger size are very pleased. I sure appreciate your interest in this and value your expertise. Rod

SkyDover, Do you know of a cheaper version of the 2" driver that Rudy used, the P Audio BM-D750? Sorry Rudy for taking this OT - perhaps I should start a new thread. Thanks, Rod

I used it on a 4 or 5 year old cheap Acer Laptop and it was fine. I'm not an expert on REW, but I don't think it takes a lot of horsepower. I found the folks on the REW forum to be very helpful (kinda like here!) if you have any difficulties. I found the initial setup and calibration a little confusing, but once I had it running it was great. Haven't tried their latest version. Also I used it for subwoofer setup and I think it's primarily designed for low end work, but don't see why it wouldn't do what you need. Good luck. Rod

Might REW do what you want? Can't beat the price - FREE! http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ Rod

Thanks guys for all the good observations and suggestions - really appreciate the effort to help! Interesting about the shift in location between the bass and mid further affecting imaging. No question that time alignement is needed and the system I use when I go 'Active'will allow that. But I am now wondering about imaging problems with a stock Khorn. Besides the long time for the lows compared to mid tweet, there must be some location confusion as a result of the mid tweet being direct and the bass feeding two walls which gives that enveloping low end. Since we have a Danley DTS-10 monster sub moving the bass bins out may not be such a problem. The sub covers from 11 Hz up to about 100 (if desired). And being a tapped horn it does it with great authority! But since we only have one and it will end up on the side wall we shouldn't cross it too high because of directionality. I think false corners are probably the proper answer, but since we don't need the bottom end from the Khorns I'm going to consider enclosing the bins a la 60th anniversary edition. Thanks for the links on that. Only thing I'm wondering is that I vaguely recall reading something about losing some upper register bass as well as the lowest end. Think it was around 200. Not sure why this might happen though. In any case enclosing the bins looks like the cheapest and easiest (?) approach and one that hopefully will work fine for us. We are madly trying to get things ready on our boat for our month long cruise in July. Wont have much internet connection while were gone, so if I ignore any posts here please understand. Rod

Probably the best and most versatile player is JRiver Media Center 15. Their SQ is considered one of the best in the Windows world. They are constantly developing it and it has a pretty good Library Server. It has a 'Secure Ripping' feature that supposedly will do as good a job as EAC - nice to have it all in one program. BTW Itunes is generally considered to have excellent SQ on a Mac, but not PC. I must disagree with an earlier statement that your ripped collection will never be as good as the CDs. With good ripping software to WAV or FLAC AND a good DAC you can get outstanding quality. But do you have a good DAC, or are you just using the onboard audio? There is a huge difference. Once you have a good computer audio setup you can then download high resolution music files and get way better than CD quality. When I say download I mean from paid sites. hdtracks.com is probably one of the biggest of the audiophile sites. Have fun, Rod