Chorus II or Heresey III?

[tiempo]

Hi

I have been offered to buy a pair Chorus II and a pair Heresey III. Both
requests around 1000
$ and both speakers are near mint
(The Nordic retail prices are considerably higher than the American). Chorus II
are approximately 15 years old and Heresey III approximately 1.5 years.

My room is approximately 11 feet long and 14 feet broad (around 3x4 meter), and I play on the
card side.

I listen to all kind of music but mostly pop, jazz and blues.

I don’t know if the Chorus III is too big for my room and that the Heresey
III fits better.

Is there also more details and higher resolution in Heresey III because
there are newer speakers?

What will I choose?

I’m going to use a Audion Silvernight SET amp (2-7wat) and mostly vinyl as source.

Best regards,

Henrik

[tiempo]

Anyone?

[WMcD]

I would say Chorus II without a doubt. I'm a big fan of the Quartet, Forte II, and Chorus II family. They are the litte bear, momma bear, and pappa bear of the series.

These have passive bass radiators and the tractrix midrange.

The Heresy of any series is going to be much weaker in bass than Klispch's larger speaker.

I have the Forte II in a small room and they sound great. So please do not worry.

Another advantage to the Chorus is that it will put the mid and tweeter at ear level. You will have to put a Heresy on a stand to get that.

Please buy the Chorus II. You will be impressed beyond recovery.

Wm McD

[tiempo]

Thanks for your answer!

You do not believe Heresey III is better on anything? I will of course get
the stands for the Heresey. Should not the new elements on Heresey III be quite much better than the
Chorus II?

What speaks for Heresey is that they can stand the near batch wall
according to what I read, while Chorus have to be out in the room for the bas to work. It is allright sitting so close on such big speakers?

Regards,

Henrik

[Budman]

its a no brainer. Chorus II

[Audio Flynn]

I never heard the HIIIs but have owned the Chorus IIs for 7 or 8 years. They will never be sold.

I had them at AK Fest an audio show in Michigan for enthusiast rooms as well as audio corporate rooms.

Never saw much of the show since I had a bunch of people in the room listening to music all wekend. My Belles do not travel; Chorus II is my "road" speaker.

Chorus IIs are again a speaker that benifits in a big way from audiophile grade capacitor upgrades.

[WMcD]

Thanks for your answer!

You do not believe Heresey III is better on anything? I will of course get the stands for the Heresey. Should not the new elements on Heresey III be quite much better than the Chorus II?

What speaks for Heresey is that they can stand the near batch wall according to what I read, while Chorus have to be out in the room for the bas to work. It is allright sitting so close on such big speakers?

Regards,

Henrik

Those are a lot of questions and I'm pleased to let you have my thoughts.

You should look at this thread where I posted the article by Klipsch engineers on the tractrix. You will see that I had some comments on the graphs and what was said in the article. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/44621/872434.aspx#872434

1) Generally we start with the Heresy in the early days. It has a small sealed box bass driver. That minimizes cost and size. So if you ask for the merits of the Heresy, those are the major ones.

2) The Heresy in all forms uses a smaller exponential midrange and a tweeter. The later ones use plastic variations of those same mid and tweeter. In the more recent ones, there may be a small improvement in the bass driver and maybe a better crossover. People comment favorably on this when compared to earlier Heresy. None the less, much of speaker performance is constrained by size.

3) As I said before, I'm a fan of the Quartet, Forte II and Chorus II family. We have to look at the evolution. Essentially, the Forte (I) was a Heresy II with a bigger bass box and a passive radiator. Essentially the same mid horn and tweeter. Even Klipsch engineers said it was a Heresy "with bass." It had a passive radiator and a bigger box. You just can't get away from size when it comes to bass. At about this time, the Chorus (I) was made, it had a port, not passive, and the same general exponential midrange horn.

4) The article above sets out the evolution of the Forte (I) to Forte II. The article points out how the tractrix mid improved things. What is not discussed is that the Forte II had an improved bass system. Eventually, the Chorus got upgraded in a similar way, that is a passive radiator and a tractrix midrange. Then the Quartet was added, the baby bear.

5) So, you say, isn't the Heresy III an improvement over what went before? Maybe, but only in the Heresy series. The tractrix mid is not used, perhaps because there is no room for it. The H III didn't leap-frog over the Q, FII, CII family, in my view. It just can't. Size is the issue.

6) There seems to be a nagging question on whether bigger speakers need bigger rooms, or that you have be seated farther away. Please consider that all the speakers under consideration above have very similar mid and tweeters. Therefore, even if the box is bigger (for bass), we're still dealing with the same size mid and tweeter. That is pretty much true in all home speakers on the market. Pulling them away from the wall may reduce reflections from the walls.

7) If you look around the forum, there are comments about seating while listening to Klipschorns and other bass horns. Some say that getting farther away improves things. In my view, that does not come into play with the direct radiator bass units we're talking about. It is a function of getting the bass horn and mid to work.

8) There is a valid concern with the passive radiator being on the back of the box and just how close can you place them near the wall. Certainly, sealled up against the wall will not work. It looks like the "rule of thumb" is that a distance of the radius of the passive radiator is enough. Therefore 7 inches, or 12 cm (?) space would be okay. I have my Forte II toed-in in a corner so the cabinet edges touch the walls. It works very well.

Again, let me renew my suggestion that you buy the Chorus II.

Wm McD

[tiempo]

Thanks everyone

for the replies!

William, especially

thanks that you took yourself time to describe the differences. Very helpful!

I will definitively

try to go on the Chorus.

Regards,

Henrik

[DrWho]

I definitely prefer the Chorus II.....

However, since you mentioned a SET amp, I would have to recommend the HIII. The Chorus II doesn't like high output impedance amplifiers and I really feel the HIII will be much better behaved in that regard.

Is there any chance for demo'ing either speaker with your own amplifier? If you're buying from audio geeks like ourselves, I bet they wouldn't mind an opportunity to hear something new....

[tiempo]

DrWho,that doesn’t sound so good.

I have told the seller that I will buy his Chorus II now… I shall visit some relatives in the weekend and intended to pick them up on way. Unfortunately it’s not possible for me to listen to them with my amplifier because I don’t have it yet (recently ordered).

Is several of same view that Chorus II do not fit with SET amps? I thought all Klipsch in the Heritage-series worked very well with SET amps.

My amp is similar to the Audion Silver Night stereo mk II shown here:

http://www.aland.net/sandmarcaudio/audion.htm

[arfandbark]

The specs for both speakers are available on this website.

The Chorus II has it all over the Heresy III (on paper) from what I see.

Having heard neither, I cannot make a 1st hand recomendation.

However, I DO have both Heresy IIs and Cornwall I's.

I have used both of these speakers with a Heathkit 17wpc amp. I know it's not SET, but it's as close as I'm getting.

Although the Heresy II is fine sounding, the Cornwall has the depth and prescence that justifies owning a larger speaker.

Chorus II. 39hz-20khz. 101 db sensitivity.

Heresy III. 58hz-20khz. 99db sensitivity.

I know what I'd buy if I were you.....

[tiempo]

According to what I read should 7 tube watts also work well with Chorus II. But I become little afraid when it is said that Chorus II doesn't like high output impedance amplifiers...

I was hoping to be able to sit pleased with both amplifiers and speakers a while ahead and only to play records.

Nobody that have used Chorus II with a SET amplifier?

[Chicago_Pete]

In 2006 I had a pair of Chorus mated to a Decware Zen SET, 2 wpc.

Low volumes no problems, forget about loud listening sessions.

[tiempo]

In guess I simply have to try it myself. What's done is done.
I will probably use 300B and then it gives 2x7wpc, but it’s also possible to use 2x3,5wpc 2A3.

But some more experiences with Chorus and SET amplifiers would be nice.

[leok]

I second, or third the cautions about using Chorus II with a high output impedance amp (no feedback amps ar generally high impedance). The problem is not power, it's impedance. The Chorus has very high impedance in the midrange and a high impedance amp will play that range louder, making it sound thin. Neither of my tube amps works with the Chorus II. I use the Tripath, Hypex, or Crown (see below) with my Chorus IIs and love them. Played a little Mighty Sam McClain through the Chorus II / Crown combo this AM .. WOW.

Leo

[stormin]

I second, or third the cautions about using Chorus II with a high output impedance amp (no feedback amps ar generally high impedance). The problem is not power, it's impedance. The Chorus has very high impedance in the midrange and a high impedance amp will play that range louder, making it sound thin. Neither of my tube amps works with the Chorus II. I use the Tripath, Hypex, or Crown (see below) with my Chorus IIs and love them. Played a little Mighty Sam McClain through the Chorus II / Crown combo this AM .. WOW.

Leo

Can you imagine how many folks have given up on the Chorus II due to this fact. They just had no clue. These are great speakers that I've enjoyed for going on 20 years. They will have to pry them from my dead cold hands as they say.

Personally I would give up on the amp long before I would the Chorus II.

[HudsonValleyNoah]

Would a crossover upgrade to something like a Pop-Bumper Stack overcome this impedance spike?

[tiempo]

I see, this was of course crap. Do not want the speakers to sound thin but either will I sell the amplifier directly. So I may have to invest in something else then Chorus II, error designed speakers for tubes is not funny...[

[SilverSport]

have you heard them yet with your gear???...I would like to know what you think of the combination...

Bill

[tiempo]

I have not bought them still so I can not examine yet. Comes to have both the
amplifier and the speakers home on Sunday. But as said, now I however
speculates into not to buying Chorus because there function so poorly with concern for
that they have irregular impedance