Mallette Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 GOOD GAWD, MAN... So Don sends me a $tereophile recording of a Robert Silverman piano recording done live. He says the piano appears 27 feet wide (I presume that's his speaker distancing, as it shrunk to a mere 15 in my room) and doesn't really care to have it back. He asks me to analyze it. I put it own. Crikey, I must be loosing it, methinks. Got to be a problem with my system or my ears are going south. I'd made it a point not to read any of the material enclosed before listening so as to be "blind." I sit in the sweet spot, move back and forth a bit, but no matter what I do it sound like a couple of omnis a couple of feet of the bow and stern of the piano. "What sort of creature has ears like that," I think. I only listened to about 3 minutes before I had to grab the insert and see what I was REALLY hearing as only an idiot would mike a piano like that. OK, two. Pages 1 to 8 of the insert are about the CD, the program, the music, and the artist. Pages 8 to 23 are John Atkinson and Robert Harley making engineering sound like rocket science and themselves sound like Einstein and son. Don't try this at home... Really, you'll hate the results just like I hate this recording. Right there on page 20. Two omnis, one just off the starboard bow and one parallel to it and just before the stern. I repeat: anybody here have ears spaced like that? Any shock that the recording sounds as if you did??????? They are so proud they included a track of the image, with one of them walking across the stage clapping, then to the back of the church and back. Bizarre. When he claps as he identifies being at the mike positions, my confidence returns as that is precisely where I'd visualized them. Problem is, I couldn't believe my ears as I assumed these guys were the real thing, recording Gods, sonus magnus. (mental image collapses) I am not going much further...not a lot more to be said. I quit taking $tereophile a few years back. Useful articles seemed to be quite rare. I thought maybe I'd drifted out of being a real hobbiest or something. I really don't know who their audience is, but it can't be people who appreciate any sort of accuracy in recording if this is something they endorse. I am stunned. Thanks (I think) for sharing this bag of caca with me, Don. I'll see if I can find a suitable gift in return. [6] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody_Mack Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 GOOD GAWD, MAN... So Don sends me a $tereophile recording..........and doesn't really care to have it back...... You think? He just needed confirmation from "Golden Ears", that it sounded awful! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 GOOD GAWD, MAN... So Don sends me a $tereophile recording..........and doesn't really care to have it back...... You think? He just needed confirmation from "Golden Ears", that it sounded awful! Rick "Golden Ears" is one thing I KNOW I ain't got. But I am not quite deaf yet, either... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 But I am not quite deaf yet, either... A nice take on the Monty Python 'not quite dead'- would make a suitable tshirt for Klipsch dudes. I feel your pain brother. Not only an intensely bad recording, but that they go on and on about their 'technique'. really awful. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I guess a piano would sound similar to that recording...if you're leaning inside the instrument with your face just above the soundboard! Sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Atkinson couldnt make a good piano recording,,, I have Photos of his attempt at that recording session... The mic stands are so high the mic are looking down at the floor and silvermans bald head,,, Another set of photos show Atkinson placing mics inside piano a few inches above strings,,The problem was he foregot to connect mics to the recorder, I could go on and on about some of the dumb things he has done,,, But a recording engineer he,s not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The mic stands are so high the mic are looking down at the floor and silvermans bald head Not knowing anything about this recording, I wonder if maybe there was a reflection off the head? [:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 I suddenly realized I did not reference the source for the thread title as I had intended... It's a quote from the technical notes, "If you take pride in your systems's imaging, go to disc 2, track 10...etc". They repeated several times that if you did not hear what they said you should , the problem was in your system. Well, mine tracked their movements precisely and demonstrated audibly how deaf they must be. There's differences in engineering opinion and there is crap. These bozos had the wrong mikes in the wrong places and the recording is crap. End of story. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbound Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I recently bought all three Stereophile test CDs. Their package deal. They state on their site how amazing these recordings are. I listened to all three CDs the first night I received them. They'll probably never be inside my player again, unless I get really bored sometime for a second listen, but that will probably never happen. [N] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 OK, so let's look at one way of doing this right. It's basically common sense. Using a concident pair or other conventional stereo mike plan is going to yield a variable, unrealistic image. Until I went to work on the problem myself I generally preferred a mono piano to two channel. So, I decided that: 1. The plan had to contain the image and stabilize it over a variety of front speaker widths. 2. It should contain a good representation of the hall. 3. Audience noise had to be minimized without affecting the sound of the instrument. 4. The position of the pianist should be clear and firmly anchored. So I decided to anchor the pianist on the right and contain the apparent source between the right and center. Here is the plan...it's secret, so don't be telling anybody. Two ribbon microphones. The focal mike is placed over and equidistant from the soundboard at roughly 45 degrees so that the rear lobe is over the audience to minimize audience pickup while maintaining ambience. The ambience mike is a few feet off the end of the piano and 90 degrees to the focal mike, also angled to place the rear lobe in the air. The ambience mike is placed at a lower volume to effectively pan it left to about the center. This ensures a reasonably accurate apparent source from most systems. It appears to work well from the reports of many experienced listeners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean5340 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 It appears to work well from the reports of many experienced listeners. David I'm not that experienced but your technique makes the piano sound like it is right there in front of me. Not too big not to small. The sounstage is about five feet wide and very realistic. The LaScala's do a very fine job on pianos which seals the deal. I enjoy your recording and will take your word on this one but it would be fun to compare. Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hmmm...maybe I should upload a "fair use" size sample of the $tereophile "Gods" work for comparison. What do you think? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean5340 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hmmm...maybe I should upload a "fair use" size sample of the $tereophile "Gods" work for comparison. What do you think? Dave Sounds good if there are no issues with that. Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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