Ray Garrison Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Hi there. Those of you who've been following the trials and tribulations of this (still... sigh... ) unemployed Internet CTO know that I recently sold my La Scalas. They are now happily at home in Soundog's abode (which, by the way, is one HELL of a system... see http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/2211.html just don't drool on the mouse...). I am now back to using my KG4's. Now, when I bought the KG4 (this was back in 1985) I thought they were a GREAT speaker for the money. Over time, the "let's go buy some new stuff" bug bit every once in a while, and I'd upgrade something. New amp, new CD player, new turntable, new speakers, whatever. Over the course of several years went from KG4 to CF4 to La Scala (with a couple of minor diversions and wrong turns along the way.) Each time I got new speakers, I thought I'd improved the sound of the system. Not night and day, not so much so that I thought the system had sounded bad before the upgrade, but better, in some ways more than others. I know it may seem silly to compare a (relatively) small pair of floor standing speakers that sold new for, uh, $450? (the KG4) to a pair of La Scalas - they're totally different animals, the La Scala are fully horn loaded, the KG4 have horn tweeters with dual mid-bass drivers and a passive resonator, too many differences to even list. But, but, but... when I went from the KG4 to the La Scala, it was more of a "that's better, that sounds more like what I think live music sounds like" than a "HOLY CHIT THIS BLOWS THE KG4 OUT OF THE WATER!!!!" kind of reaction. If I'd been in the market for new speakers, and listened to a pair of KG4 and La Scala and compared them, I'd've (<--- valid contraction?) thought the La Scalas were better, but might have had a hard time justifying the difference between $450 and $2500. Now, my La Scalas have left, on to their new happy home. My KG4 are back in action. And you know what? "HOLY CHIT, THE LA SCALA BLOW THE KG4 OUT OF THE WATER!!!" I mean, there is NO COMPARISON AT ALL EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BETWEEN THESE SPEAKERS. Someday I'm going to get another pair of horn loaded Klipsch - maybe by the time my new business is up and running there will actually be a Jubilee I can buy, or at least the Heritage line will be back in action. My question, through, is really this: why is it that going from better sound to not such better sound is so much more noticable than going the other way round? Anybody else ever noticed this? How come when I had the KG4 and heard the La Scala they sounded, you know, better and all, but when I had the La Scala and heard the KG4, the La Scala are BETTERs> in every single damn way? Pondering life's inponderables... ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Damn Ray. didn't know your position, sorry. I would have gladly stored(read played) them in my living room until you wanted to buy 'em back from me. Hope Soundog gave you the same consid. BTW, I'm in Huntington. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 ray, hope you're back to sound splendor soon. don't know the pyschological techs, but perhaps the cliche "it's better to have loved & lost than to never have loved at all". or is it??? good luck on the next go round. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Ray's quite a guy and very bright - just read his posts - he has a solid mastery of the intricacies of electronics and audio. I've been up and down a number of times in my life - left home at 18 (my alcoholic father and I didn't get along) to make it in NYC - got very sick in an apartment in Brooklyn without adequate heat and furnished "off the street" - but I did have my EICO & University kits which I bought mowing lawns and brought to NYC via several trips on Greyhound buses and the subway late at night. I worked my way up via night school with government loans while working in a Wall Street Bank. I ended up with a fair amount of money designing advertising & marketing programs for National Distillers and playing the stock market. I had a new three family house in Queens, a lot of stock, a big Chrysler and a beautiful family, only to loose it all to alcoholism. Survived by working as an exterminator, a taxi cab driver, and a doorman at a strip joint, were even though I was still actively alcoholic, I devised a scheme (as only a desperate alcoholic could) to buy what was then Manhattan's most notorious strip joint on Canal Street between little Italy and Chinatown in the 70s. Connected the University speakers and amps to the juke box in the bar. Made a lot of money - had a duplex in the west village - lost it all to cocaine addiction. Crawled back to my parent's house at 35 (humiliation) and went to work for Radio Shack - became a manager of one of the smallest stores and won the Tandy Award by selling Mach One systems (best speaker the shack ever sold - I still have a pair) and was flown to Fort Worth to meet Tandy himself. Returned, went on a blackout binge, money was missing from the store and warrants were issued for my arrest. Crawled into detox, paid off RS with my Tandy stock and went to rehab and then to a halfway house on welfare. Left the halfway house too soon, got a job selling Hi-Fi's at minimum wage, kept relapsing and was so depressed I was considering suicide when I challenged "God" to remove the obsession and compulsion to drink as the 12 step program said He would if I asked. To my shock, it was lifted and I became a true believer. Never-the-less I contracted pneumonia from living in a cold apartment, lost the job for being sick and was again homeless, but another recovering guy let me sleep on his sofa for about 6 months. Got another minimum wage job selling furniture and went back to college via another government loan to become an alcoholism counselor. Got my first job as a counselor in the 80s that paid $7500 a year. Anyway things just kept getting better and better and today I make a good living developing treatment and training programs. So if when Ray gets back on his feet and if he wants his LaScalas back for what I paid for them, I'd be glad to do it. I understand. But I'd be willing to bet he's going to make it big and end up with those Millennium Klipschorns. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 sounddog, thanks for giving me more hope for humanity in this world. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoriated_Tiger Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Damn, soundog. I think those Ray's LaScalas are in the best possible hands they could be in. I went through a rough time last year -- got laid off in Jan, took me till March to land another gig..in those days, I didn't know what to do.. how to do it.. I thought I was gonna lose my apt.. It is heartening to see someone with strength such as yours. I wish I had 1/2 the strength you do. I was suicidal last year. Just wanted to add: The SF2's I have were a significant sacrifice for me. The speakers they replaced have been with me for 13 years. I got the SF's as a gift to myself, for surviving 10 years in an abusive relationship, for surviving my first (and hopefully only) layoff.. When you can... Get those big ole horns back.. ------------------ --- Klipsch SF2 Thorens TD145 / AT440ML turntable Dynaco Stereo 70 power Sansui CA-2000 pre Pioneer RT707 tapedeck Pioneer 4100 cd player This message has been edited by Thoriated_Tiger on 02-26-2002 at 09:23 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Ray, I know from your emails of last year that you are indeed a brilliant fellow. It is a dangerous tag... one that was hung around my neck years ago. You know that I lost a company that took a lifetime to build... and only by putting all my eggs in one basket could I put it over the top. At the height of my success, some clever multi-millionaires swindled me out of it without my knowledge or consent. I spent whatever was left in a futile attempt to see justice served in the courts... it wasn't... due I believe to a crooked judge. Lamenting about what had been and what was likely to be took away a lot of my will to live and desire to go that extra bit that success requires. It sounds like what you told me about last year has come to pass. Whatever you do, don't be the fool that I was... shake it off and build anew. You were loyal last time far past the place of bailing... now you have a chance to be loyal to yourself... it's time to dig down and make something happen... no matter what. it won't be easy... but the first thing to do is look around and see what in your immediate environment you can use as a toe-hold to climb out of despair. Keep watching how you can change your environment and make it pay for you. Remember, the next step to wealth won't be where you will stay... it's just a step on the process of moving on. There are a whole lot of folks that respect you Ray, just make sure that you are one of them! Soundog, I hear you. My father was an alcoholic, I saved his life several times, and when graduated from high school he told me that I would have to pay $300 a month to live in the four bedroom house in which I was raised... with a rent of $35 a month. So, I hit the streets, married my sweetheart ( a sophomore in college) and started swimming upstream. My wife turned out to be mentally ill and I wound up addicted to prescription opiates. The shrinks recommended the marriage be ended for her well-being... and so it was. I kicked the opiates when I realized that when I didn't take them I could no longer do my job... and when I did take them I didn't care if I wet my pants on main street. Three days, cold turkey, and I have had trouble trusting doctors or pills ever since. I went in the military with a desire to learn what makes people tick... and a dead spot inside that made the whole experience somewhat surreal... and I really did not care if I lived or died... but even in a firefight I was just one of those guys who somehow survive when they probably shouldn't. It's a long story and a lot of it isn't very pretty. When my father had a stroke and dropped everything to take care of he and my mother... I was able to use my knowledge to extend his life happily for another three years of constant attention. Finally, on his death bed, he said, "Ed, I appreciate what you have done for me and I sure didn't expect it because I hated you all of your life!" You see, my father was successful politician who had not had the grades to get through high school. He thought that my quick mind and superior grades were done as an affront to him... to embarrass him as being a dummy... so he went out of his way to cut me off at the pass every time. Well he checked out before we came to terms... but at least the mystery of not being able to measure up no matter what I did turned out to be my problem but somebody else's solution. Yeah, Soundog, when all you can see between yourself and eternal nothingness is yourself... you can feel pretty damned ill equipped... and I tried all the insulators you did... and still it was me swimming upstream and damn tired of it all. The only thing that saved me is that I really enjoy the ability to think critically... and all the crutches erode that capacity in one way or another. Even when I broke my neck in Manhattan, NYC, I threw away the pain pills when I got out of traction. If I can't think... I would rather just not be. I just told Ray to look at his environment and find something he can use to pull himself up a notch at a time. Except for his devotion to an employer... none of this is Ray's fault. You, Soundog, should be a great example for Ray... because you looked at your condition as a drunk and used the experience to make a career helping drunks clear the hurdle one day at a time. You can't find something in your own environment any closer than your own mind! You continued to look for opportunities in your environment... picking up the pace a dead-end job at a time... determined that its the journey not the destination... a fact that every recovering addict must learn or perish. And you know when I use the term "drunk" I am not putting anyone down. I spent a number of years in the Army Medical Corps helping military personnel and their dependents beat drugs and alcohol overseas. Every time I see a post or reply that Ray Garrison has made, I feel a sense of pride in having known him just a bit... knowing that his life wasn't easy... but he still took the time to share his expertise with someone less fortunate than himself when it came to knowing this sound business. And, Soundog, I've admired you for your posts and replies... and now I admire you for becoming the person that you have. There may be those who think we ought not to share these kind of things on the Klipsch Forum... and maybe they are right. But I do know this, there are more worthwhile people on this little BBS, as a percentage, than any other commercial board I have been on. The life of the average thread isn't very long... and it passes into creeping oblivion. What we have said here won't last very long as electrons... but the human spirit that was raised here today by every lurker and member who stumbled on to this post. It's probably just as well that these things don't happen all the time... but when they do... they seem to raise the consciousness of almost all concerned. No wonder I would rather trade with people on this board than venture out into the ebay barnyard and scratch around. Thanks Ray and Soundog for being who you are... and that goes for DeanG too... wherever he may be. And so many others who share a passion for Klipsch and a more honest approach to life. Now let's talk Klipsch! HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Thanks, Ed. my Dad and I made peace before he died, too. I'm convinced it's all one great learning experience. Faith, hope and sharing is where it's at. We're all in this together. Music has inspired me and kept me going. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 I don't know why but as I read this post I could hear James Taylor singing 'Carolina In My Mind'.Hmmmm.... Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted February 27, 2002 Author Share Posted February 27, 2002 Thanks for the thoughts, guys, and yes, Soundog is a truly inspirational man... with a truly frightening system ... But to get back to my basic question, what is there about human nature that makes going from really good to okay so much more noticeable than going from okay to really good? Is that why so many people have a problem hearing the advances in sound possible by upgrading CD players or amps or cables or power supplies or what have you? Would someone who swore that cables are just cables, after all, react differently if they were going from really good cables back "down" to the zip cord? Is there something endemic in human experience that makes it so difficult for us to recognise when we GAIN something, but so quick to notice when we LOSE it? And what does this say about about all the other avenues of human experience? Since September the 11th, do we recognise more of what America is because of what we have, in some ways, lost? Do we only come to understand how much people mean to us when we lose them? This seems tragic, in the truest Greek sense... how do we recognise what we have WHILE we have it, and not only after? Yeah, I know, melancholy and all that, but it is, after all, 1:30 in the morning and I'm sitting here in front of my computer. Ponder on that for a moment... ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Okay, Ray, I'll focus on your question. Human beings are survival oriented beings... more so than other creatures because of the accumulated experience that is quantified and qualified and eventually collectively stored in our experience. Given that, supposedly I called you up on the phone as you are sitting there at 1:30 a.m. and I said, "Ray, if you drive across town right now there's a chance you could pick up a hundred bucks. Well, maybe you would... but probably you would say, "Hey, Ed, it's been a long day... I'll check it out in the morning." But, if I called and said, "Ray, if you don't get across town right now you are going to lose $100 right out of your bank account!" Chances are you would respond immediately. What I am trying to illustrate is the psychological premise that the fear of loss is a much stronger motivator than the prospect of gain. Thus, winnings produce brief happiness... but losing carries guilt, anxiety and feelings of helplessness. A winning event adds to the status quo... and quickly we adjust to our new status... it has to do with the propensity to consume that is particularly strong in the good ole U.S.A. Inflation has made a $100 not nearly as big a bill as it used to be... until it is something you get for something that you like and had paid $2-300 for. The sense of loss... and fear of further loss the next time $100 is needed... far outweighs the $100 gain to your bottom line. Of course, put this in terms of Classic Klipsch products and the "slam factor" is a whole lot harder. It's the difference of a trend line going down rather than up. We can survive indignities a whole lot easier when we see our trend line going up. No matter how you slice it... trading 12 gauge, oxygen free stranded copper runs with gold plated connectors for zip cord just doesn't fill most audiophiles with the notion that they are doing the right thing. The toughest thing about retrograde is visualizing, piece-by-piece something better that you are planning to include in your "as soon as I can" system. Hey, the audio world is changing to multi-channel music and video... and you have the time, opportunity and know-how to build something that will make us all sit up and take notice. Opportunity seems to come to those who are prepared for it... and that usually means a positive frame of mind. As a responsible person, you know you are going to take care of whatever has to be taken care of... so, my friend, reward yourself with a 14 "carrot" target! Good hunting! HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 Sorry for adding a post that will certainly pass very quickly into creeping oblivion (Ed, I just had to borrow this phrase!) but I am very moved! Ray, hopefully you'll get back to the Heritage line pretty quickly. Good luck to everybody - and thanks for the humanity shown. Wolfram ------------------ Khorns, tubes and a suitable room: Welcome to aural paradise! System: 1973 Khorns with ALK crossovers REL Stadium II sub Cayin 743 D integrated tube amp McIntosh MR 77 McIntosh MCD 7007 Thorens 520S SME 3012-R Ortofon SPU Classic GM E Cyrus aEQ 7 phono stage with PSX-R power supply Alternative system: Quad ESL 63 McIntosh MC 2105 McIntosh C29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 so to sum up, horned, for most, fear of loss is greater than greed of gain. i can dig that. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 As a student of the technical aspect of the selling process, a trainer told me... "the fear of change needs to be less than the fear of staying the same"; when people do not fear the purchase, they buy. Theroy is all decisions are emotional. That is why people change direction in their life I beleive. I really fear greed. Trying to make $ 200k a year is probably possible. But I could lose family, freinds and health in the process perhaps. Other peoples stories remind me that "persistence" is the common thread in success of various endeavors. Ray, May I suggest any book by Og Mandino. He is an old school kind of self help writer. His books are a short(never more than 200 pages) pick me up. He should be availiable in most every library. I would be more than happy to mail one out to you. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klewless Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Ray, To respond to your question, is it maybe because of your awareness of that which was lost? You cannot really miss that which you have not experienced. My opinion. jp ------------------ John P St Paul, MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwillwalk Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Dont know what you got till its gone Some cheesy 80smetal band. Anyway Whether its my klf-30s, 73 Cornwalls, or my heresy IIs in storage back in the states, or losing the ability to walk & control my body because I broke my neck a few years ago for me it always comes back to that damn song.(horned your name should be luckyed) Its always harder when you dont have it. BUT the good thing is if you really want back with hard work and a positive mind, anything is possible as you can read by these posts. Ive been reading this BB for 3 years,(and still a cool newbie) learned a lot, but this is the best post yet. I will share my story of recovery, but cant now because it is VERY difficult to type but most importantly Im still in the process of healing!!! I will get there just like the others that posted, THANK YOU! By the way if anyone has or knows about some klipsch for sale in Morocco or France please let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 I remember it as Joni Mitchell You dont know what you ve got till its gone ... they paved paradise and put up a parking lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 "...Big Yellow Taxi come and take my baby away..." Yup, Joni Mitchell (80's metal band, indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 whoops, double. see below. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 03-02-2002 at 07:56 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 iwillwalk, god's speed to you. that was also one of those metal bands - title of same name by cinderella. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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