Bi-amping Cornwalls

[Clipped and Shorn]

I am considering bi-amping my Cornwalls. Does anyone have a schematic of the crossover I could look at? Has anyone had some experience bi-amping or otherwise modifying Cornwalls-eg. like trying other Woofers than the stock Klipsch in the process? Just curious and ready for some interesting experimentation and exploration.

-Lewised and Clarked.

[fini]

Thelma and Louise- I think you're discovering new territory, there. If you do end up swapping out the woofers, maybe you'd consider trading them for a couple of pelts.

fini

[Clipped and Shorn]

fini,

Beaver might be worth it. I might be into some woofer swapping, depends on how those TTs and new belts look . Might be a good opportunity to try out digital techniques. Webpage photos of biamping might be of interest.

- expurgated and decrassified

This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 02-28-2002 at 12:44 AM

[IndyKlipschFan]

hmm would you add paint to a artists picture after he said it was done... OK, sorry, a purist here... Most of the time, but read on.

I used to get mad at "add ons" till I tried a few in my younger years that worked great! Built our own PA in college for my band and used different manufacturers drivers in different cabinets basically what your doing here too. (We upgraded speakers as we made more $$)

As a caveat... I would hold on to "Origional Parts" and NOT sell them off, unless you never (and I mean NEVER) want to re sell your equipment again. And make someone elses day finding hard to get parts too.

I, too, wonder what a great digital electronic cross over might do for a pair of speakers, before the amp gets the signal.(Rather than passive, as it is now.)

As far as bi amping..That may be tricky... The whole set up was not laid out this way. But I am sure it has been done. You might have a battle with how much do I turn up the low end vs the mid-highs too?

Just my 2 cents.

PS, Makes you wonder what "high end" JBL drivers...Not the retail crap, but the good stuff...And one of ALK's superior crossovers might sound like too in a k horn or Cornwall. Hard part would be to get a side by side comparison.

[Clipped and Shorn]

IKF,

good thoughts. I wasn't going to rush into anything.

for that matter, I could leave the Cornwalls intact, and biamp to another cabinet housing some beefier woofers. I'll wait until all the suggestions are in. This is all relatively new to me, and I do understand the controversy around vintage vs. altered, so I would definitely time capsule anything I temporarily removed from the Cornwalls.

-Clyde and Hortense

[HornEd]

Some say the "vintage vs. altered" can be resolved with "horse sense"... try asking the man who owns the gelding that just won the Kentucky Derby!

-Horace and ShooEd

This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-01-2002 at 03:49 AM

[djk]

Hey, Horn ED? Does that mean if Clipped and Shorn leaves his Cornwalls in the closet long enough that one day he might find a litter of Quintets? Does a Quintet grow up to be a Cornwall, or just a Quartet? Enquiring minds want to know?

A Cornwall on steroids?

ftp://invalid.ed.unit.no/pub/pictures/audio/EVEREST.JPG

I picked up a set of parts for these.I got two sets of woofers.I'm going to mount the second set push-pull like M&K does on their subwoofers.In addition to reducing distortion, it also shows off the back side of the second woofer with its 25lb magnet structure.Going to use a 2470 midrange instead of a 2425 and thinking about the 2403 cats-eye instead of the 2405 slot.

[serjan]

Gentelman,

This has been one of the most entertaining and informative topics I have read so far on this forum.

Bi-amping was always something I wondered would improve the overall performance of an already great speaker design. I have bi-wired my LaScallas and maybe other than replacing my balancing network can't imagine altering anything else.

However, I am always open to looking at all the options new ideas. Thank you all.

Frank and Ernist

[Colin]

I am going to bi-amp if my SS amp ever comes back from the dealer - I thought all it really needed was a relay,

but I want to use it to drive the woofer, since flea powered tube amps do better with less of the low frequency signal, and less frequencies in general,

but if I have to use the screeching B2 networks, while then I guess that bi-amping won't accomplish all that I would like, might have to get the ALK crossovers afterall, spent 1/2 year debating which route to go, will find out someday soon ...

------------------

Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing!

[fini]

mdeneen-As you know, I'm a pretty big guy (o.k.-just big), and I've never had a fourth order of linkwitz. You must have been really hungry. I do tend to load the pancakes with Buttworth, though.

fini

[HornEd]

Mdeneen, your right handed knowledge and left handed treatment of tubular fini & Clipped have stirred me bi-amping K-horns, Belle, & Cornwalls... which raises questions of about the set of amps that would provide good sounds... rather than just being a place to recycle money at my expense.

Many years ago, I built my own equipment from kits... but my skill sets have diminished over the last few years. My head feels young... but my bod doesn't seem to understand the feeling.

I'd like some help... you're not that far away... and I am not trying to take unfair advantage of a neighbor or a Klipsch Forum member. So, here's your chance, be suggestive... HornEd

[Clipped and Shorn]

You mean there really isn't an audio related "Buttworth". What was it supposed to be?

My mouth is watering for some of that Oak Smoked Linkwitz that fini was talking about. One order should be enough though, that stuff is peppery!

-doubled and entendred

BTW, I originally asked if anyone has a schematic for the Cornwall crossover, I think mine were from '78 if I am not mistaken, I will have to double check.

This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 03-02-2002 at 04:43 PM

[mike stehr]

Active crossover design is fun.

I just layed out a subwoofer X-over on a breadboard.

Now I need to do the smoke test, and then figure out

what value resistors to use for FC.

I have enough parts to go L and R 4th order 3-way as well.

THANX!

This message has been edited by mike stehr on 03-02-2002 at 05:23 PM

[HornEd]

creativity.

I am designing some special walnut mini-wall treatments for the Khorns based on my research and email interaction with Q-man... my Heritage Hero and legendary no-nonsense cabinet maker. The result should be greater placement flexibility. If you would like to have the K-horns and Belle to play with on an extended visit... it can be done.

The last time I had K-horns... the audio world was a lot more primitive... and to a degree, so were the K-horns... and me too for that matter. I need some time to lock into what's best for this new set.

The motorhome sleeps six adults (actually three pairs of friendlies)... and has enough kitchen to turn out a memorable gastronomic feast... there's a 20' awning to protect your head and central heat and air to keep you hot or cool as the situation demands.

I'm looking for an adventure that is mutually rewarding... in whatever kind of coin. The first step is that we agree it could be fun... I think we are essentially there already. One of my strengths is the ability to make executive decisions with a high degree of accuracy. No brag... it's just been the core of my business approach for over forty years. But high accuracy generally is an extension of having good data... and that is what I am now gathering. So pardon the vagueness, clarity is just around the corner. Hmm, that's what I used to tell my patients in the psychiatric unit.

Once I know that you will be aboard then I can factor in your intelligence, experience, work ethic, skill sets, etc. to build something worthwhile together.

I have the equipment to take, process & print a six-color, museum quality photos of you rapt in your work which can last over two hundred years before showing signs of fading. Who knows, a Klipsch Forum posting of "mdeneen descending the stares" may inspire a whole new generation of "super tweakers" a couple of centuries from now!

Sorry for the lack of organization, but I have been working on a project since 1:30 a.m. Sunday... and some of my circuits are developing increased impedance. I just didn't want to lose the opportunity of being tardy in answer. I really have to give the old bean a rest period. Maybe I can edit this before dawn. HornEd

PS: I did return in the wee hours to clean it up a bit. But understand that I am somewhat of a benevolent "free spirit" and do not feel bound by unreasonable societal demands. I have the focus to enjoy Klipschorns in the middle of a garbage dump... particularly if the music were turned on!

This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-04-2002 at 08:26 AM

[Clipped and Shorn]

HornEd,

Great post, just my cup of tea, late hour well written with stream of consciousness creativity thrown in. Think of the great video snippets we could all be making of some of these happenings. You must inform mdeneen that his descent of the staircase will be clothing optional.

-reddi-made watts and ****** champ

[HornEd]

Bingo, Clipped & Shorn... you are Duchamp of Klipsch... but it seems that mdeneen is partial to wearing Freudian slips while avoiding facial fruits from transient hens. It's nice to see inside humor get outside... and maintains some comedic thread above slapstick... maybe all the way up to melodrama.

Did you know that the "Nitty Gritty Dirt Band" used to perform at intermission at the Melodrama Theater in San Antonio, Texas... complete with jug, spoons and washtub bass... they alone provided value beyond the price of admission... but increasing fame sucked them up to loftier gigs.

Over half-a-life ago, the Sorbonne allowed a young American in Paris to struggle for the essential line that Matisse might have used... and me without a piano. So as my fingers went to the post, my mind raced ahead to think... what famous painting looks like a tube chassis being formulated in mdeneen's mind. And the blocky, brassy strokes of Duchamp sprang to mind... and then the "stares" came into play as mdeneens work descends from conception to marketplace. Somehow that "bare" necessities work seemed to be in search of the ideal tube... wearing only a wry grin.

Thanks, Clipped and Shorn. I haven't gotten much of that kind of recognition since I put a lid on the think tank a decade ago. I would especially like to thank you for the inspirational quality you put in your posts... even to the point of laying it on the line to come up with a new pair of wrangled words as a tag line. You've set a tough standard for yourself... but I have confidence that you will solder through it. From time-to-time I am tempted to use the device in the spirit of camaraderie and good times... but I try to refrain because I think it works well as your signature... so you will have to accept my flattery without the sincerity of imitation.

And now a word from our sponsor... Klipsch, a horn up on the coney world... Praise the Board and pass the diminution (Prose point, Bose counterpoint... sounds like the Forum). HornEd

This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-05-2002 at 09:51 AM

[HornEd]

And while the mind reels... be sure to remember that this is likely to be more than a two "reeler." Mdeneen, you and your wine country sippers, seem to stay in vintage humor. I'm not looking for the most expensive or the cheapest tubeway to the "live" concert beat.

My problem is worse than the butcher who backed into the meat grinder... I have gotten much more behind in my order. Like about four decades since I built a tube amp... and I probably don't have the allotted time left to approach the knowledge that you, "the great resistor" mobile homeless and "that's Greek to me" arco seem to have down cold.

As I poke my nose into this tube stuff... I am amazed at the variables... no wonder the two-channel section stays so busy. For what it is worth, I am trying to get beyond the complete tubular idiot stage... I may look like a big duck sitting in the water... but underneath I am paddling the webs as hard as I can.

Any between reel snacks you thrown this way will be most appreciated. I'll try to make it interesting. The last thing I want to be is a waste of your time. HornEd

This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-16-2002 at 09:39 AM

[HornEd]

Not to be "cheeky & chic-y" mdeneen... but lose the buttons and turn it vertical and it sure reminds me of a menu in an up-scale Cairo eatery! I speak the True, effendi!

You guys conjure up more nostalgia in the dark recesses of an old-school mind... that my tubular focus glows hot in the struggle for understanding new school technology. But, I wouldn't want it any other way. Thanks for sharing. oh, that's not anger... just excess energy from the tubular focus vs. rambling fun dichotomy. HornEd

This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-06-2002 at 10:08 AM

[Clipped and Shorn]

Nice thing about forum threads is that they exist in their own meta-time-frame, and like the "exquisite corpse" of the dadaist we are building structures beyond the limitations of our solitary imaginings. It is really wonderful. All of which is to say, forgive my momentary absence, for I am now back from the gig, and the heart has grown even fonder as I see these treasures that have been added onto whatever it is we are building here in this most colorful and art literary thread.

These online conversational writings should be preserved as were so many of the letters between historically significant contributors in various other fields of endeavor-and glad we are to still have them as cultural tenets.

Philosopher and Tubologist mdeneen has put me in mind of Mondrian {forgive me if I steal your great "Broadvay Boogaloo" as a title for a latin jazzy original tune I might come up with. Also, no one more than Kandinsky induces in me the synaesthetic responses between color and music, thus, how very appropriate your imagined front plate of the upcoming and awaited Triodic-mysterioso. Likewise the reference to California crate labels and the implied full cornucopia of remembered nostalgia of nostalgia sunshine warmth - having grown up a native to these fragrant fields of blossoming citrus and sea foamed beaches from San Diego to Santa Barbara during a time when remnants of an even earlier era full of plein-air inspiration still abounded.

Later I would continue the trek ever northward through Steinbeckian Monterey to beatnik Berkeley and Kerouacian San Francisco, and onward to Sonoma, Mendocino, and Modoc counties. Thank you for evoking the colors, sounds, sights, and tastes of California.

The glow of tubes is the sunshine of oranges in the brisk night sky.

And the ubiquitious HornEd picks up every stitch regarding everyone's core style, leaves no page unexamined in depth on all sides, is like a sufi seer, Renaissance man, modernist, medievalist, generalist, and unfathomably unique creative anachronism in the best possible sense of the term. Also a fini class wordsmith extraordinaire. I am Bartholomew Cubbins taking hat after hat off to you.

I feel like I just signed everyone's Year Book.

Good night and Audiose

-Ooblecked and Thunked

{The Duchamp of Klipsch}

(<{ I'm stealing that too}>)

------------------

Cornwalls

currently upgrading

to all tube components

This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 03-16-2002 at 06:53 AM

[Allan Songer]

Mondrian's seminal painting is titled "Broadway Boogie-Woogie" not "Boogaloo." Don't mean to be picky, but it's a great painting and I visit it every time I'm in New York.