Digging new La Scalas - cabinet bracing?

[Paul Folbrecht]

There are now some big - and I mean big - black boxes gracing our living room. Especially for the $1200 I paid for them - just yesterday - wow. My first pair of Klipsch speakers. I have been very seriously into the audio game for about five years now (into it all my life to some extent) and have owned more than a dozen speakers in that time, some nearly $20K retail. But I have never explored front horns.

I knew, of course, that with anything but front-horns I was missing real dynamic impact. And I was, and now that I have that, and stunning microdynamics as well, I think I might be sold on front horns, even sub-par ones.

Of course they draw attention to themselves with a cabinet that resonates and they are too big to disappear. That's Ok; audiophile tricks have not impressed me in some time. What they do, they do very well, and those are some of the most musically important things.

They are a late 80s pair with what is supposed to be the worst crossover, the AL. But they have surprised me by NOT sounding edgy or shouty at all - I was expecting them to. (Because some say they are - but I am feeding them a very good diet, unlike some.)

I already have new Crites xovers and tweeters - the highest bang/buck mods - on the way. Oh, and new Alnico midrange drivers.

Their one *real* problem is that reverberant cabinet. It really draws attention. I have searched the archives and found some information on bracing, but I wanted to check if anybody has any tricks that I may not have found.

I also plan to spike the cabs. Those rounded metal knobs can't be good on my plush carpet. No energy transfer.

[JohnA]

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/125409/1269029.aspx

At least you've ordered new crossovers. You won't know how bad the Type ALs are until you hear better. The Type ALs have a resonance near the bottom of the squawker horn's range, about 400 Hz. I did not find them shouty.

There is about a dB difference between a K-55-V and a K-55-M. Other than that there is not much difference. Many like the -M and I believe we've had published tests showing them to be a little smoother than -Vs (PD5-VHs). That is one reason why the crossovers were changed for the -M. I prefer the -V, but that's because the -V was the squawker in use when I first heard Klipsch.

The last thing you want is to have a loudspeaker "transfer energy" to the structure of your house and have it vibrate sympathetically, but out of phase with your music. Spikes are intended to prevent fore and aft movement of the speaker cabinet in response to woofer movement. Cabinet movement *could* blur the shorter wavelengths, the ones that are near the distance of the movement. La Scalas are too big and have too large a footprint to be moved by the relatively light woofer. Skip the spikes and save the carpet damage.

[Coytee]

Once you spend ?? dollars on getting things up to snuff.... do not do a search on "JubeScala"

Congrats on your intro into front horns. There are some here who use them (front horns as well as LaScalas) as their front....rear....and center channels as well. It only gets better.

[Y]

[psg]

they are too big to disappear.

[^o)]

They should!

Space them out as you would Klipschorns, some 18 to 22 feet apart, and toe them in 45 degrees. Now sit in the crosshairs so that each is facing you directly. I'll bet they disappear completely. I have found La Scala and Klipschorns to disappear much more easily and completely than any small conventional speaker I have ever tried.

[Islander]

Peter's right. Once your La Scalas are properly positioned and pointed, you should have a clearly projected soundstage, with the speakers roughly indicating the sides of it, but hardly sounding like the source of it. Of course, if you're listening to an early "hard left-hard right" (sometimes called "ping-pong") stereo recording, it may sound like there are two groups of musicians, one on each side of the room.

Mine are about 12.5 feet apart (measured centre-to-centre) and about 12.5 feet from the listening position and project a much clearer and more realistic soundstage than they did when only 5.5 feet apart, as I had them at first. Your room will dictate the available spacing, but in general, farther apart is better.

Also, black La Scalas have the odd tendency to gradually get smaller in terms of perceived size. They seem enormous at first, then really big, then kind of big, then just part of the living room.

Spiking has been discussed often, but the general consensus is that the weight and footprint of La Scalas make them pretty stable, so spikes are not really needed. As for energy transfer, isn't the idea of spikes to prevent energy from being dissipated into the floor, not make it easier? If your carpet is fairly thick, the cabinets will sink into it a bit, so they'll have pretty good traction and be unlikely to do any "moving while grooving", so mid-hi sound "smearing" shouldn't be an issue. I have a pair of non-Klipsch speakers that benefit from spikes/cones, but they're only 12" front-to-back and could be made to wobble back and forth on the carpet a bit with a light push, unlike La Scalas.

It always seemed odd to me that some people feel that all speakers must be on spikes, even high-end ones that weigh 500 pounds or more. Unless they're on a waxed tile floor, it's hard to picture a properly levelled quarter-ton speaker jiggling much.

As for bracing, a number of LS owners have done it, but I don't know how obvious the improvement is, not having heard braced LSs myself. Of course, there's always the JubScala conversion, which greatly improves the mid-hi range due to a much better tweeter (JubScalas are 2-way, unlike a normal 3-way La Scala), the elimination of one crossover point (mid-to-high) and a very precisely calibrated active processor/EQ unit. That processor (usually an E-V Dx38 or a pair of Crown XTi amps with built-in DSP) also EQs out that approximately 150Hz resonance and the improvement is very obvious with certain music.

Finally, congrats on finally getting your La Scalas! The new tweeters and crossovers should make them sound even better than they do now.

they are too big to disappear.

They should!

Space them out as you would Klipschorns, some 18 to 22 feet apart, and toe them in 45 degrees. Now sit in the crosshairs so that each is facing you directly. I'll bet they disappear completely. I have found La Scala and Klipschorns to disappear much more easily and completely than any small conventional speaker I have ever tried.

[psg]

Great post Pat!

[Paul Folbrecht]

Hi guys,

Some thoughts:

1) I just installed the Crites A/4500 xover, tweeters, and Alnico mid drivers. First impression is better clarity but they sound quite hot. I'm hoping this will be reduced with break-in (after all, these components are all brand new!)

2) I have never met a speaker that did not benefit from spiking. The theory is to tightly couple the cabinet to the floor to rapidly drain vibrations. Whether or not it works with La Scalas - which are indeed quite different than any other speaker I've tried it with - I don't know.

3) I will try putting them in the corners and toe-ing in to face me. This means my TBI subs can't go in the corners, though (I haven't tried them yet with the La Scalas).

4) Bracing: I have read the deal is to double-up the birch (another 3/4") on the sides. I'm wonderif if that's usually done on the outside of the cab or the inside (of the bass cab only). Anyway, part of the reason they don't disappear is that the cabinet *does* resonate. I don't care too much about that though. (I care about tight & clear bass, but not imaging.)

5) I can't read other posts while this Reply window is up so I forgot what else I was going to say.

[Blvdre]

If you decide to"double up" to brace your LS,you would add to the outside of the cabinet, as adding to the inside would change the dimension of the horn. There are alternatives, though - see here

[psg]

1- My Klipschorns were a tad warmer with Bob Crites tweeters with the same crossovers (I had expecting the opposite effect after all the reviews, and even remembered it that way but I just found my review post of that time at http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/70916/700781.aspx#700781). They sounded different with A/4500 crossover but it was hard to put my finger on what, and I didn't swap back and forth after that. I got used to the new sound rather quickly.

3- Let me know how that goes. You may change your mind about (4).

4- I doubt resonance is doing much at low power; it should really only affect the sound when you crank the speakers. La Scala imaging doesn't need any power and occurs even at 0.001W. The typical bracing I have seen added to La Scala looks like a horizontal wedge in the bass bin mouth.