More Power...

[Vonrebel]

In order to gain additional hard hitting bass, and claridy, was considering adding a power amp. Trying to gain claridy and bass when playing Metalica, White Zombie, and other pounding rock music. With HT, would like to gain the kind of bass you feel in the bones. Deep Deep

Is power amp the right word? or is it pre amp?

This will be use for 2 ch music played at high levels and HomeTheater

played at moderate to normal levels

The Current system is:

Yamahas RX-V3000 100 watts x 6

Mains RF-7s

Center RC-7

Rears RS-7

Sub Woofer is a Velodyne VLF 1012;

maybe Klipsch RSW 15 some day?

Room size is 19ft x 12ft

This Klipsch/Yamaha system Rocks as is, but I am an

exstreamist.

This message has been edited by Vonrebel on 03-10-2002 at 08:39 PM

[TheEAR]

Hard hitting bass huh

Yes a powerful 2 channel amp will help,just used on the RF-7's.The ATI 1502 comes to mind,its not expensive and it has plenty of power and ...slam.WIth Rf-7's it should give you slam big time for peanuts.

A subwoofer will help,the Velodyne you have is not the beast you should be using with the R series speakers.I would get two SVS CS Plus or two SVS Ultra subs with a 500W per channel power amp,or you can buy the ATI 1505 and use the three channels for mains and center and the remaining two for SVS subs.The rear and front effects will be well served from the Yamaha integrated power amps.In my room I use multiple Sunfire subs and can reach reference playback levels with ease.

In either case a good power amp will be welcome.

Yet another way to go is the new Outlaw 7 channel power amp.At 200W into 8 Ohms and 300W into 4 Ohms per channel it should drive your R series and SVS passive subs into takeoff.

Again if even more power you seek the ATI 2505 and soon to be released ATI 300W per channel(into 8 Ohms) mosnter would be ideal.

Right now I use the 2505 with almost identical speakers,just my sourrounds are Klipsch RF-5's.I took the RF-5's because they have some good punch.I like my HT powerful the R series with the ATI 2505 are the way to go.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Vonrebel]

TheEAR,

Have you heard the RF-7s as well as the RF-5s?

This ATI 2505 sounds good, how much does it price out at? or do you have a web address?

I thinking I'd like to stay in the $1200.00 range for a power amp.

These SVS subs would you by chance have a price on these as well? or a web address?

[HornEd]

Vonrebel, after going through a dozen subwoofers, the majority at much higher price points, I found bass beyond mere satisfaction at http://www.svsubwoofers.com/ Let the good times roll HornEd

PS: The photo shows a pair of SVS Ultras side-by-side and stacked into a 7' sub tower.

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HORNED'S EIGHT THEATRICAL LEGENDS, FIVE+ MUSICAL HERITAGES & A ROADIE...

SETTING THE STAGE FOR THE "THEATER OF THE MIND"...

KLF-30's: Left Main, Center Main, Right Main KLF C7's: L & R Front Effects on 5' sand filled columns

KLF-30's: Left Surround, Rear Effects, Right Surround Twin SVS CS-Ultra SubTower, Samson Megawatt Amp

KLIPSCH SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS:

Bass friendly, oversized, glove-leather LazyBoy Recliners. Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver

Toshiba Pro Scan 6200, Toshiba Pro 6-head SVHS W808 Upscale Monster Cables and Interconnects

CHANNELING THE MUSIC EXPERIENCE FROM 2 TO 6!

'97 Klipschorn - Mains, '99 Klipsch Belle - Center '83 Cornwall - Surrounds, '93 Academy - Rear Effects

Walnut w/ Cane Grilles. Final Amps, etc. to be determined after long discussions with Klipsch Forum Members.

THE MOVEABLE (EAR) FEAST...

Klipsched Class "A" Motorhome... an acoustics challenge in 8' x 30'... vandalized... but soon to be "On the Road Again!"

s>

[TheEAR]

Vonrebel,

I did not only hear the RF-7's and RF-5's,I own them both with the RC-7.These work in my second HT setup.

If you want to stay around the $1200 range then the 1505 can be found around this price if you deal before you buy.The 1505 quality is identical to the 2505,the 1505 is less powerful.Still eats all reciever amplifiers for lunch.Dont get the lesser Marantz,Denon or Yamaha amps,these are improved reciever modules neatly packaged.The ATI amps buldoze them in power, built and sound quality.Bass control is also in a class above any mas market brand ME TOO amp.

The ATI web site is at http://www.ati-amp.com/

ATI is known for quality power amps at down to earth prices.

HornEd,

"after going through a dozen subwoofers, the majority at much higher price points,"

May I know the makes and models?

I have plenty of subs and tried countless,and while the SVS Ultras are amazing bargains and bring true deep sub bass with power they are not the last word in subwoofing(the SVS SS used as pairs may be).

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Audible Nectar]

TheEar is right on target here. Look at the ATI 1505 at onecall.com - now on closeout for $1099, $400 off of list - no negotiation necessary.

The Outlaw 755 (200x5) is $1299, at outlawaudio.com. Will be shipping in the next one-three weeks, it's the newer version of the Outlaw 750.

Check for closeouts on the ATI 2505 as well - there's bound to be a deal (however, the unit prices at $2500 list, so the other two are more cost effective).

The ATI and the Outlaw are essentially the same (same basic design, same components, made in the same factory). Excellent power and performance for the dollar. You can't go wrong either way. I'm using an Outlaw 750 in my Klipsch HT, with excellent results.

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

This message has been edited by dndphishin on 03-11-2002 at 08:55 AM

[Vonrebel]

TheEAR

Thanks for the info and the Web addresses.

We have a few good choices of amps to pick from. My first thought is to go for the 5 ch, but this may be money wasted as the Yamaha RX-V3000 seems to have enough push for HT. Investing in a great 2 ch would seem like the better choice, cost wise.

Those SVS subs look darn good, damm good.

If I was going to buy one sub to go with just the Yamaha, w/no amp? Which one

Then, which sub would be best if I had an amp?

Hate to but a 2 ch amp, find out how good it sounds and then wish I had a 5 ch amp. Better to have the extra ch and not need then. Or use them.

leaning toward the 1505 w/one of those Ultra CS

TheEAR,

Sounds like you have a kickin set as well. Post a few photos.

HornEd, very nice set up!!! impressive as hell. I am truely inspired. Nice curtains too. Rock & Roll Those subs stack neatly.

Thanks for all the web addresses.

dndphishin Thanks for your info, I hear he name OutLaw alot. I'd like one of everything.

[TheEAR]

Vonrebel,

I have two(three)sound systems in two rooms,one two channel reference and two HT systems.The system based in my smallish 10*14' room uses Klipsch R series all around for speakers,ATI amplification,Sunfire subwoofing(four Sunfire subs)and various geasr from JVC 9800 SVHS,Toshiba 4700 DVD(bargain and great performance!),Denon 3801 as pre/pro(noisy ).Monster M Series speaker cables all around(M2.4B)and Monster M1000 digital,Tributaries Silver interconects and video.

The larger room HT is my pride,Dynaudio(bring on the challengers) Contour speakers used all around(mmm can you say High-End),Celeste(Bryston...what is that?) amplifiers(4070,4150,4250),Sunfire Theater Grand pre/pro(beats the Denon 5800 like a hoe)and Aerial,Revel and Velo subs.And Pioneer DVAX10 DVD/SACD player.In other words HT heaven to me.I will NEVER EVER replace the Dynes,maybe with better upscale ones much later.Oh yes Cardas Golden Cross speaker wire and interconects(with some cheaper but damn inpressive Kimber interconects)Monster M1000 Digital interconect.This system will reach with no sweat incredible volumes and do it all with total ease.The sub woofers are cream of the crop,as good as it gets in under 5K subs.

And my two channel system(next to the HT system in the big roon,err big is 16*20')is my CORNBREADWALLZ KILLA and I name Spendor FL-10 speakers,Krell FPB600(who better?),AudioReserach LS25,SONY SCD-1 SACD payer(who says Sony is garbage better think twice and no sub(any sub will corrupt perfection).All Tributairies XLR interconects,Monster Sigma speaker wire.

Sorry my old and battered Kodak DC25 died after a long life of good service.Since I am a "GRATTE CENT"(french for cheap stake)for anything outside audio I will wit and get a great didi cam when the deal is right.I posted some pics of my first system a while ago,Sunflowers in them.I promise to post a bunch of pics when I get myself a honorable 3 megapixel and up cam.For now all my money goes towards my next purchase,more subs and a projector to replace the 16/9 Toshiba and move it to the smaller HT system where a poor ole Toshiba 27" sists now! LOL Time to retire the 27".

And two PC sound systems...oh no I would have to write a book.One VideoLogic SiroccoPro and the other a Klipsch Synergy(KSW12 and 15 subs),UltraLink speaker cables,interconects.Two Celeste integrated amps(4050i)

Not bad huh LOL ..for a PC setup

Ah audio its so adictive,its a sickness.The whole bank account can go to the audio stores and the sink with it!Oh where is the sink?

LOL

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Vonrebel]

TheEAR

WOW I'm speachless,

no I'm not, wait here you go,

"My name is TheEAR and I am an Audio-holic" LOL

You most definitely have your self a serious investment. Get a camera.

Your neighboors must either hate or love you.

I to see myself in the distant future standing up and stating my name too.

[TheEAR]

You know the funny part,the neighboors dont even know I have this level of quality and quantity.If they knew I would have to stand 24/7 with a sawed off shotgun loaded and ready to serve.

I dont bother the neighboors,the construction is all concrete and thick bunker like concrete.Good insurance and two alarm systems conected to the central help peace of mind.

When you start piling up good quality gear get all the protection you can get.There are plenty of worms and jealous lazy loosers who pray on anything of value.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[montigue]

Thears,

Sure would be nice to see a pic of your setup. Planning on posting a pic anytime soon ears?

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Klipsch 5.2 mains

Klipsch 4.2 rears

Klpsch KLF C-7 center

Mitsubishi HD 1080 platinum series tv

Toshiba pro scan DVD audio player

Sony Hi-Fi VCR player

Harman Kardon AVR 65 receiver

SVS 20/39 subwoofer w/Samsom S1000 amp

[avman]

NO!!you DON"T need more power,you need a kick-*** sub!

imo, the rsw-15 qualifies. our rooms are basically the same size(i have an additional 10x6 ft. side section)when you re-set the bass management in your yammy 3k (excellent receiver btw) your yammy's amps will have more power available because they will no longer have to power the deepest bass. your mains will sound better also, because they aren't having to play at the lower limits of their bass-making capability.

avman.

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1-pair klf 30's

c-7 center

ksps-6 surrounds

RSW-15 in the house!!

sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1

sony playstation 2

sony dvpnc 650-v 5-disc dvd/cd/SACD changer

dishnetwork model 7200 dishplayer satellite receiver/digital bitstream recorder

sony kv36xbr450 high-definition 4:3 tv

sharp xv-z1u lcd projector w/84" 4:3 sharp screen

Bello'international Italian-made a/v furniture

panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner

monster cable and nxg interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire

KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz!

[Vonrebel]

Avman

I think you may be correct, because the local Klipsch dealer says the cross overs in the RF-7s are not set for bass?

The Klipsch dealer said to invest in a better sub woofer first.

Also as you and HornED have both stated, the Yamaha 3000 has enough power, especially with such a sinsitive speaker as the RF-7 is at 102db.

Of coarse a power amp would help, but for BASS. Upgrading the sub, (Velodyne 1012) first would be wiser. Then go for the power amp.

I how come expensive speakers fail to put out good bass. Could my expectations be to high? I spent the extra money upgrading the RF-3II to the RF-7s for more bass, But I don't hear a 1,000.00 difference?

[jerohm]

I am perplexed. The bass that I get from a DVD is always more dramatic than that I get from a CD... but I write that off to the fact most of my CDs are from the 70's. I have Forte IIs (4 of them - driven by a 100/channel Rotel ) - NO sub, and I find broken stuff in the basement all of the time. What exactly do you feel you are missing?

[Vonrebel]

The kind of bass that can push you back in your seat.

[Michael Greenway]

I used to have a car when I was in Highschool (77-80) that you could put a 100 bill on dash and hit the gas. Passenger could not reach bill until I let up. That is what I called being pushed back into seat. LOL

Those were the days! Klipsch content: The local Klipsch dealer also sold Alpine car stereos. I of course had to have one. Well anywho I used to visit another car stereo dealer that sold Pioneer Supertuners and Jetsound amps. He called me the Alpine man. 20 yrs later he now sells Klipsch, Paradigm, Montana, Krell, and many other brands. He even has a Bose setup so people can hear how bad they sound. What a salesman!

[TheEAR]

Montigue,

When I get my new digital cam I will post pics,my trusty Kodak DC25(yeah I know junk by today standards)died on me.

Just did add a RSW10 to my PC sound system.Not bad at all.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[boa12]

jer & von, a sub by design is best to carry the lowest bass & the LFE channel. & w/ it's seperate amp uninhibited by the other freq range material. also it can be placed seperately to get the optimal room response. 2 subs placed right can do even better (usually a 5-6db gain in output).

w/ a 5.1 dvd you get the 6th channel, aka the .1 in 5.1 or the LFE channel. & usually the mixers add to the LFE a +10db boost for the explosions & such. & dvd run at higher resolutions/sampling rates than pcm cd.

just may be why the dvd have more & better quality/dynamics bass than cd (5.1 vs 2 channel).

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My Home Systems Page

This message has been edited by boa12 on 03-16-2002 at 02:14 PM

[Vonrebel]

I was told by the local Klipsch dealer that the RF-7s are not built to produce great low bass?????????

That the crossovers in the RF-7s are set, which means the system depends totaly on the sub woofer to produce low end bass.

I'm going to check out a Rotel power amp, for a few days. There is a Audio store here that will allow equipment to be check out for a day or so.

[Deang]

Your local Klipsch dealer is an idiot.

The RF7 is a two-way and as far as two-ways go, the crossover is pretty low -- which actually helps the mid-bass and midrange stay cleaner. Also, the lowest notes are actually being produced by the ports.

The RF7 has the best sounding bass from a bass reflex tower I have ever heard. It is tight, tight, tight. No boom, no slop. It is tuneful and well defined.

The only way to get the kind of bass you are talking about is to go with two RSW15's or a pair of SVS subs (which would be much more cost effective).

Ears is right about your present sub. It will not even REMOTELY be able to keep up with your RF7's. As a matter of fact -- you might even be experiencing some cancellation effects, depending on how you have your sub sitting. Does your sub have a phase switch? If so, have you played with it?

The most bang for the buck will come from adding a monster sub or two. At any rate, until you get your monster sub(s) - you might help your cause by moving the speakers closer towards the walls and corners -- no closer than a foot though.

Now, if you want real bass -- you're gonna have to get yourself a itty bitty tube amp

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dean

This message has been edited by deang on 03-16-2002 at 07:12 PM