mobile homeless Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Ummm.... I am not sure what you are referring to here regarding the Cornwall positioning? You mean to simply put the horz config on its side? You really dont WANT this if you can help it as it puts the mid and tweet very near the floor. And the beasts will be WIDE as a brickbat! What is this guy telling you? Based on countless discussion, it does seem to pay to put the two elements vertical above the woofer. Here is a picture of Allan Songer's actual CW with the mid and tweet horns mounted vertically compared to my 77 with the horz mount. The imaging is improved by the dispersion characteristics of the vertical horns vs the horz. This is not to say the horizontal arrangement is horrifying by any means; it just appears to not have the imaging that matches the Vert config. One change I would make; I would mount the crossover on the side wall of the speaker over the baffle to reduce vibration. Also, use some good binding posts (ie Cardas) and nice internal wiring (ie Cardas is ok here too). In buy used CW, the vert driver units always go for a premium over the horz units. I'll send you the Speaker Builder article. The original cabinets are void free birch plywood that was VERY nice. This makes a difference in the performance and tonal characteristics of the speaker as well as the rigidity. NOS, or New Old Stock, simply means tube that were manufactured in the past that are UNUSED. These tubes generally sound better due to contruction and materials used at the time. Years and recommendations vary with make, type, model etc. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-26-2002 at 10:04 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockoman Posted March 25, 2002 Author Share Posted March 25, 2002 mobile.. GREAT PHOTOs........a picture is worth a thousand words..the 2 pics you posted are what I was trying to put into words...the picture on the left is what I was trying to describe as the attachment I received from the seller and failed miserably at. What he sent was a copy from a page from an old owners manual for the speaker in the left photo(Allan's)showing it from the front with the grill cover off. The speakers were shown standing upright and layed over on the long side. The config I plan to build is the photo on the right (yours)! The photo's of the tweeters I purchased from the seller show they have square magnets, not the round ones that are in both photos. The woofer magnets are also square like yours. The mid-range are said to have the Alnico magnets and look like yours. I haven't seen an HF81 for sale anywhere in a few weeks. looks like the Klipschsters have dried up the supply for a while. Thanks a bunch for your help. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Bob, Cornwall I's used 3/4" nine-ply, void free, baltic birch plywood for all panels. The 3/4" BB plywood is good stuff - highly recommended. If you want to save weight, you might want to use balsa wood (just kidding). Also, some Cornwalls were veneered, some were not. You have the luxury of choosing your veneer and finish. There's some beautiful stuff out there - rosewood, zebrawood, mahogany, walnut, ebony, cherry, oak, etc. Keep us posted on the progress of your project. Regards, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Not all Cornwall I's were mabe of 9-ply birch. My recently acquired 1980 Cornwalls (2nd pair!) are walnut veneer with a lumber core. Is this the case with others here? fini This message has been edited by fini on 03-25-2002 at 02:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Fini, Look at the opening to the squawker and count the plys. Are there nine layers? (Don't forget to include the thin outer and innermost layers.) My 1977 Cornwalls are nine ply birch with walnut veneer. Klipsch may have used lumber core, but I'd be surprised. Heck, who knows, Cornwalls had a lot of variations. Warm regards, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Andy- The motorboard is 9-ply birch (painted black-why waste walnut when it's getting paint), but the body of the cabinet, the parts that are oiled walnut, are lumber core. Take a look at the back of the speaker box (not the actual back piece), or lay the speaker down and look at the bottom edge of the riser: mine are lumber core. Nothing bad about that...it's just as good (if not better) than 9-ply. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Fini, when you say "lumber core" do you mean that between the outer laminations is a solid piece of wood? IF this is the case, I have never seen this on any Cornwall, either in pics or person. Every model I have seen had the 9-ply. Do you have any pics? kh ps-Bob, I still dont know the reason why you opted NOT to build the tweet and mid horn in the vertical position? I'll forward you the Speaker Builder plans or send a link. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-26-2002 at 10:37 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Kelly- I don't have a digital camera, but yes, that is the definition of lumber core, and that's what I've got. I know yours are Designer Series. What finish? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Ummm... I am willing to bet your main box of the Cornwalls is plywood. You rarely see a speaker of this size that is made from solid wood. Mine are designer series birch with a factory black finish. Are you saying they glued pieces of solid wood together to make the front? My 77 Cornwall I http://66.155.4.65/klipsch_cornwall/images/cornwall_full_white.jpg kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-26-2002 at 11:29 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Sorry, Kelly, you'd lose that bet. As a 20+ year carpenter, plywood is something I do know. The speakers I'm referring to are a second pair of mine, the first being 1979 type CBR (raw, 9-ply birch). The pair I've been referring to are 1980 type CWO (oiled walnut), and are constructed of lumber core walnut sides, top, bottom, and risers. Other parts are made of 9-ply birch (motorboard, back, interior pieces). Here's a link explaining different types of hardwood plywood construction: http://www.gp.com/hardwood/cores.html Note: the actual core of the lumber core is not walnut. Not sure what it is, maybe poplar? Hope this clears things up. fini Edit: Thanks for posting the shot of your Cornwalls. I'm noticing that the dustcaps on all my woofers are bigger than on yours. Insignificant, but interresting. -f This message has been edited by fini on 03-26-2002 at 11:49 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Greetings Fini, I checked out my Cornwalls during lunch today. The cabinets are just as you stated: nineply motorboard, lumber core in sides, bottom, top, and risers (not sure about the back - I didn't want to remove it). Looking at the unfinished core in the risers, coupled with the outstanding long term dimensional stability, my guess also would be poplar as the core. Learn something new every day. Forgive me for any misinformation given in the past regarding cabinet construction. Funny, I originally looked at the motorboard edge-on and assumed the entire cabinet was the same stuff. You da man, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Oh, I see what you mean. When you first explained "lumber core" I thought you meant a SOLID piece of wood with just a veneer of walnut on the exterior. You can see how I was confused here. It is still basically plywood but the inner core is the glued lumber strips. I took a look at mine again and I actually cant make out if my inner core is lumber or not due to the factory painting (I assume it is not considering the year). Cant turn them over to look at bottom risers at the moment. Hey fini, you never seen those ole web pages of mine linked at the bottom of my sig? I've had several pics of my CW there since I bought the beasts. The link to the core descriptions was enlightening. BTW, I have been considering having my CW redone with a high quality cherry or rosewood veneer from my cabinet maker friend who does this sort of work. HE would remove the grill kit, and nail/glue a more hefty piece with squared edges. He then would attach the veneer on all sides, covering the seams and butt joints and going out to the end of the new front addition to make the whole speaker seamless. HE even offered to do the front as well. He does excellent work; I would never attempt such an understaking myself but he is very good and seems interested in the project. Not sure when or even IF this will happen, however. kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockoman Posted March 26, 2002 Author Share Posted March 26, 2002 Mobile, I guess I am REALLY CORNFUSED now! The 2 pics you included in your previous post depict the tweeter/midrange and ALK x-over, in a horizontal plane within the cabinet, above and left of the woofer: aka Allan's 1960's CW's...this is called the VERTICAL dvr config? The 2nd photo, aka Mobile's 1970's CWs, shows the tweeter, midrange, woofer in a vertical plane within the cabinet with the x-over mounted on the side wall...this is called the HORIZONTAL dvr config? It makes sense that dispersion and imaging could be wider/better using Allan's config. Would that then mean there is a left and right speaker, since you would have to make sure the tweeters are the outer most drivers in the cabinet? How would you place them? With the tweeter towards the middle of the sound stage or with the tweeter on the outside of the soundstage? Let me guess, it's listener optional. Sorry to be so dense, all this horizontal and vertical stuff CORNFUSED me! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Geeze, Andy- You're so polite! No applology needed. We're all trying to decipher the pedigree of these Cornwalls. I'm just happy to find something here I actually know about. I also noticed that on some Cornwalls the grain of the motorboard plywood runs vertical, and on others it runs horizontal. Kelly-So your cabinet guy is going to add panels to the sides and top? How thick will they be? Should stiffen-up the box,eh? I'm sure he knows what he's doing, but you may suggest he glue and screw from the inside of the speaker, so as to hide the screws/nails and eliminate the need to fill nail holes in the pretty new veneer. It might be fun, as long as you're at it, to turn them into those "TV-style" Cornwalls. fini This message has been edited by fini on 03-26-2002 at 10:07 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Thanks for bringing your wood knowledge with a Forum learning post, fini. Could the answer to your observation of some motorboard plywood grain runs horizontal and some runs vertical be a factor of cutting standard sheets into the most usable pieces? I suspect the motorboard outside grain is of little consequence to its intended use one way or another. Have you any MDF (Medium Density Fini? ) thoughts or brand preferences? -HornEd This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-26-2002 at 10:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Ed, You're probably right (as usual) about the grain orientation of the motorboard. Out of a 4'X8' sheet, you could economically get four 2'X3' pieces (grain runs long) and one 3'X2' piece (grain runs short). This would make the short-grain motorboards rarer, and thus worth more, right? I guess there could be sonic differences, too. I mean, some people even believe wire makes a difference, so why not? fini This message has been edited by fini on 03-26-2002 at 11:01 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 OH heck Just build them out of solid wood, black walnut, white ash, or oak, you should use solid wood, if you can, itll make them unique! Also itll be your own design, and theyll be worth more when your done! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn58 Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 I have 59 or 60 cornwall tv front if you want to copy it.I could make plans. The early one I have has great deep base and is rear ported for corner use.It has the vertical horns but uses a smaller mid horn than later,still it sounds amazing. I just bought a empty 67 corwall cab on ebay for 50 bucks.I am goung to load it with same speakers as 59 and compare the sound. I have a 59 short horn with same drivers/xover and tv front as corwall. That I can tempary rob for parts. 59 corwall use ev 15 bass, university mid and ev t35 tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Hey K-58, just out of curiosity, what network is in a '58 K-horn? According to 'The Dope From Hope', the K-500-5000 was used until about '55. However, the wooden/fiberglass 500 cycle mid-horn was used until '63 at which time they went to the K-400 straight horn, a 400 cycle horn presumably covered by the AA net. So, question is, if not the K-500-5000, what network was used for the 500 cycle mid-horn from '55 - '63? ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn58 Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 edwardre I think that my 3 late fifty,s khorns(yup that's 3 looking for one more) all use K-500-5000 crossovers.I am not at home this weekend so I can not be 100% sure. will have to wait tell monday to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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