Should I build La scalas or Klipschorns? Please Help

[Matt63]

Hi, I am a newbe and could use so of your advise and wisdom. I herd a set of La scalas 28 years ago and told myself someday I will own a set of those speakers. I am in the wood manufacturing business with the skills and equipment to produce the cabinets for the La scalas or Khorns. I do realize the Khorns will be much more work. My gameroom is in the upstairs of my barn, it is 80 feet long and 28 feet wide with Catherdral ceilings, my amp and pre-amp are at one end of the room. I am using a macintosh mc2300 (soild state) from the seventies. I think Jerry used this model amp when he played with the Dead in the seventies. My pre-amp is a Conrad Johnson (Tube) . I do have corners for the Khorns if they are the best choice for filling this room with sound. Would hanging the La scalas up off the floor be a better choice? I have read many posts on this site and have enjoyed all of them. I have to admit I am in need of some help in picking the best speakers for this room. I listen rock from the 70's to present. I have never listened to Khorns just La scalas 28 years ago. I have no way to listen to these side by side. From the posts I have read here Khorns beat La scalas in most cases (if you have corners). I have Klipsch Forte II hooked up at this time. They do sound nice. I think the Khorns or La scalas will sound nicer. Are La scalas better for rock and metal? I have teenage boys, OK I like some Metal. If Khorns are my best choice could someone e-mail me a set of plans? ( my e-mail is lagoe@frontiernet.net) Thanks for your time and help. Matt

[JohnA]

It sounds like you have the capability to build K-horns, so I would.

Back in the day, Klipsch would sell unfinished K-horn bass horns for theuser to complete. Have you considered trying that? You could apply your skills to the most expensive, but least technical part of the build, if they would sell you the bass horn alone.

[CapZark]

If you have corners then build K-Horns. La Scallas are designed to work either way, but the Ks in the corners will give you more bass.

[phatchef]

WELCOME. I just love a JERRY refrence in music concideration. Heck if your going to do a build check out JUBILEE or JAMBOREE you have pleanty of room and one hell of a system. PEACE

[garyrc]

They can both sound amazing.

If you happen to build a La Scala, build one with thick wood, like the La Scala II, not like the La Scala I. People report that it has better bass, by virtue on reduced cabinet resonances. See the positive Stereophile review of the La Scala II.

The La Scala I (but possibly not the II) has sometimes seemed a bit harsh to me --- perhaps because of inadequate balancing bass below about 50 Hz. Even the Klipschorn can sound harsh with bad program material ....

I prefer the Klipschorn, but the room has a lot to do with how it sounds. You need to be able to sit on axis, or close to it, and the needed corner placement therefore limits the seating area, unless you use turnable artificial corners. I have seen one room that was an exception to this, though, where the K-horns sounded best at a greater distance, that was clearly off-axis. Klipsch is now saying that it is better if the ceiling is 8.5 feet high or higher, and I believe it! Our Klipschorns sounded terrific -- just about as good as any speakers I've heard -- in our old house with a ceiling that sloped up to 14' -- they don't sound as good in our present home with 7' 8" ceiling. I'm going to try diffusors on the ceiling. They also like wall length proportions of .618 :1. Or not. Some K-horn users swear by room proportions that are within the limits that are set by Bolt's contour (search the forum -- it's included in the Dope from Hope collection). I think Colterphoto (sp?) noted that K-horn users like to sit about .6 to .8 of the K-horn wall width ... but you should check these figures in forum search.

[Matt63]

Thanks for all the Posts and help. Matt

[phatchef]

Again I vote for jubilee, you have the room for them.

[boom3]

If you can build the Jubilees, do so. The woodworking requirements are less than what is required to build the Klipschorn. Or, you can buy a used pair of Klipschorns and then buy an upgraded crossover from Bob Crites or Al Klappenberger.

The Klipschorn sound is not the same as the LaScala but "with more bass". The Klipschorn is a unique creature and why it does what it does so well is not entirely understood even after 60+ years of refinement and study by very intelligent third parties.

If you use LaScalas away from a room boundary, you will get essentially no bass. The LaScalas start rolling off at 60 Hz and what little bass they have is deleted by moving them away from corners.

If you are going to put a Home Theater in that room with 5.1 sound, two LaScalas will be fine for the rear channels.

[WMcD]

In bass performance, the bigger the better and the LaScala just can't perform like the larger ones. They have the clarity of mid bass but is not a first choice.

During the pilgrimages to Klipsch headquarters the good folks there have demonstrated their speakers. This typically starts with the smaller ones, like the Heresy, and then progressing to LS and then K-Horns. It is remarkable that the small ones sound so good in the very treated rooms. Nonetheless, the K-horns have the authority in the bass which always brings a smile.

I've built a lot of these types. Khorns from the SpeakerLab plans but 3/4 inch ply. LS or Belle type small and large. And my variation on a Jubilee with 15 inch drivers. The last one, the 15 inch Jubilee was the most easy (but by then I'd learned a lot). Search for "The Caves . . . "

Given the size of your barn, you might consider an MCM type bass unit.

Wm Gil McD.

[Groomlakearea51]

"The Klipschorn is a unique creature and why it does what it does so well is not entirely understood even after 60+ years of refinement and study by very intelligent third parties."

Never said better!!! That.... and the awsome massiveness of the "beast" sitting in the corner, with the ability to do the deed from the lowest volume your amp will do to the ear splitting, gut wrenching, get scared and call 911 levels with only a few watts; all the while with clarity, brilliance and intestine sucking bass that makes one wonder what all this "subwoofer" crap is all about.....

[H]

Build the Beasts!!!

[CapZark]

I think its kind of funny how everyone talks about all the rip roaring bass on K-horn and virtually none on the LS. Most recorded music rarely goes below 50 hz anyway. If you like to shake the room I guess ultra bass is fine. Look, the Ks are better than the LS on bass no question, but they have to go in the corners to pull it off. LS can sit anywhere in the room and if you ask me they have plenty of clean, deep bass and their mids and highs are on plane with the Ks and far better than the CWs. I just think it's funny that everyone rips the LS on bass. It's darn good and sooo much better than most speakers on the market so lets lighten up on the LSs bass ok?

[garyrc]

(Can't make the font small for some reason --sorry)

Bass on Klipschorns vs La Scalas

Impactive bass, such as produced by timpani and medium sized bass drum in a symphony orchestra, can sound wonderful on La Scalas, even though the La Scala does not reach as low as a K-horn .... the La Scala sounds subjectively more real in its attack than most floorstanding speakers, and many subwoofers ... and I used to play timpani, bass drum, and practically everything else one hits.

One time I heard La Scalas cream every other speaker in a store in the bass, even though several the other speakers would measure as having more bass extension.

For very large bass drums -- like the one Telarc used to have, and the one that is sometimes used near the end of the Firebird Suite, the Klipschorn is better. It's true that CDs rarely use such instruments, and classical, contemporary orchestral, and jazz rarely call for fundamentals below the La Scala's reach --- except for organ, synthesizers, and the like.

During the version of Fanfare for the Common Man that Crystal Clear Records put out (on Sonic Seasonings) the K-horns very strongly flap my pants legs in the wind they create, at 13 feet (and, like many other speakers, they shake the floor).

For movies, neither the La Scala nor the K-horn will do justice to the ubiquitous "infernal bass machine" that often goes down to 20 Hz, or lower ... BUT my K-horns do a cleaner job at 40 and 35 Hz (31.5 Hz in my old home) than any sub I've heard. That's why I have the sub we use for movies set to the lowest crossover I have (40 Hz) and have finally found a location & phase setting for the sub that allows it to work with the K-horns, with the K-horns active all the way down (my AV preamp allows for this).

[Matt63]

Thanks so much for all the input. I am leaning towards building La Scalas with a raised base bin. I have been reading the threads on this topic. I would use 1" MDF plywood for the bins. Would it hurt to use 1" for all the parts if I keep all the inside dimentions correct to the plans. Can anyone add any other advise that would help before I start this quest. Thanks so much for taking to time to help me. Regards Matt