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TT Micro Platter and copper outer ring


kdcarroll
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Does anyone have any experience with the copper micro platter and outer ring produced by TT? The video on you tube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnzDGGAmtDo)

looks interesting, as does the product advertising on their web site. I'm interested what your experience has been before I consider this tweak.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Ken

If you have the money to spare and want to try it why not. I'd try one for free. How much is it? Do you have lots of records that could benifit from this?

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I'm almost positive Max has an outer ring on his table. If you are really interested and want a first hand opinion, you might want to shoot him a pm or email. If he doesn't, one of his audio group friends almost certainly does. They are serious about their vinyl rigs in Greece!

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I'm almost positive Max has an outer ring on his table. If you are really interested and want a first hand opinion, you might want to shoot him a pm or email. If he doesn't, one of his audio group friends almost certainly does. They are serious about their vinyl rigs in Greece!

Vinyl rigs heck they are industrial sculpture vinyl players [:D]

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I have a few of Larry's fine Canadian products, that I have been very happy with.

Haven't tried this...yet, waiting for the next and final SP 10 project to go all out.

With all the good reviews and increasing demand, get 'em before the prices start creeping up.

I also have purchased from TTW and the products and service is top notch.

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$500 for a stamped sheet of copper? Do they throw in any magic cables?

I'd also be worried about motor and bearing wear. After all, you take a 5lb clamp and then throw on another 10lbs of copper, and your motor's gotta be smokin. One presumes they don't overbuild the motors on TT's. Working to a price point after all.

Don't mean to be a contrarian, but such questions should be asked before you shell out the old dough-re-me.

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I claim no "magic" with the products I have used, just good for taking care of any waves and warps, plus they look beautiful and most importantly are Canadian.[;)]

The copper platter for me will be mainly a cosmetic thing, as there is a certain speaker company that likes the look of copper too.[^o)]

The SP 10 Mk II could take ten or more of those platters, with no increase in bearing wear or reduction of speed.

I think if you asked TT, he would recomend the most sutible product/weight for your particular turntable.

I choose to believe that any other claims from this company, is solely marketing to the masses and telling them what they want to(think they) hear, whether it can be proven or not. I tried/bought when he was just out of proto-type phase and just thought it was well made, good looking and a good price.

I wasn't expecting, nor did I lift the veil of anything, my blacks are not any blacker and not even the wife(don't have one) heard a night and day difference.

Now the pebbles on the other hand...

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Thanks, DB, that's an honest assessment and one couldn't ask for more. After all people may be tempted to use this stuff on older mass market TT's (remember that vinyl is a growing hobby chock full of unedicated newbies). I suspect a big hunk of copper would fry a lot of these old turntables motors, or at the minimum, screw up the playing speed.

So if I have this correctly, you would drop 5 c-notes on aesthetics? [:D] And then cover up said platter with a round piece of black plastic.

If so, where's Canada? I want to come and visit.

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Thanks to Larry for pointing this thread out.

Yes I have an outer ring from Clearaudio on my TT. Mine is actually a combo of inner ring and outer ring. The inner ring fixes exactly on to the edge of the platter extending it outwards enough to pass the end of the record. Its edge is bevelled - as is that of the outer ring thus ensuring it is exactly centred when dropped down and keeping loads even on the baring.

So what does an outer ring do?

Now If I said I thought it was probably THE most beneficial additional item on my TT you would be sure I am exaggerating - yet I am not.

Here's why.

The outer ring serves to flatten the record about as absolutely as is possible - especially if used in conjunction with a record puck. This all but eliminates arm motion in the vertical plane. I did some calculations a while back which I cannot currently find but:

If you have a record with a 2 mm "wave" in it over a distance of 5cm @ 12 centimeters from the centre of a 33.3 rpm album and your tracking weight is 1.7 grams you will find that your tracking weight is actually varying between 1.1 and 2.3 grams with each revolution of the disk.

All of that sounds quite specific and indeed it is as it was based on one of my own records which I used for testing. What astonished me was that even with records that show relatively little warp the ring still makes a difference. Subject to the weight of the ring (mine is a couple of kilos I think) it should flatten just about anything.

Anyway - my conclusion after extensive play was that despite my ring costing me about 1000 euros ($1450) it has actually paid for itself in spades. The sonic improvement it has brought to my rig (and several others in the ACA club) is akin to having spend 2 to 4 times as much on the cart/arm combo as was actually spent.

There is no snake oil here - promise! It can all be backed up with very basic physics (Newtonian).

Having said all that - you can get much the same effect with platter suction systems ala SOTA. It isn't really cheaper though and is likely tobe more error prone as it is a more complex system.

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Actually for completeness I should add that if you have a perfectly matched arm/cart combo (such as a shroeder arm with a ZYX Airy 3 cart) the sonic difference will be less as the combined arm/cart suspension systems serve to absorb the motion thereby dramatically reducing the range of tracking weight.

Even in this case, however, there will be a difference. The choice is simply between attempting to counteract the motion and eliminating it.

IT should also be borne in mind that the above mentioned combo does cost something in the region of 4,700 euros ($6K). Compared to that the ring is a bargain as it could be matched to a more typcial $2 - 2.5K arm/cart to get as good, if not better results.

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Actually for completeness I should add that if you have a perfectly matched arm/cart combo (such as a shroeder arm with a ZYX Airy 3 cart) the sonic difference will be less as the combined arm/cart suspension systems serve to absorb the motion thereby dramatically reducing the range of tracking weight

Good point -- I don't hear even bad LP warps with the highly synergistic Basis TT clamp (which partially flattens LPs), Vector tone arm, and Transfiguration cart. But that's not a cheap combo, either.

However, good (or lucky) selection might get at least some of that kind of synergism without really big spending.

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It would depend on the TT involved and usage.

My TT is designed for a heavy platter anyway so I do not have any such worries. I think that this is only really an option for high mass tables anyway as I would be more concerned about the suspension for suspended designs.

Prior to my Clearaudio I owned a Project RPM Four which I mass loaded to a huge degree during my learning process getting back into TT's. As long as the forces are balanced on the bearing the problems of additional wear should be fairly minimal. With regards to the motor I would suggest starting the platter spinning by hand first and then merely allowing the motor to keep the speed constant. As long as this is done there really shouldn't be a problem. Nottingham tables, for example, use tiny motors which are unable to start the platter on their own - they merely control the speed.

In summary then - if you are suspended its not for you- otherwise with some sense it works a charm.

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Just as a quick follow up I wrote to the MD of the company pointing out this thread to him to see if he wanted to provide any input.

He replied to me but did not feel comfortable writing on here directly so I'll just provide a few of the comments he put in his email.

"You may want to mention to the fellow that the copper is from billet copper sheet, water cut to rough size on a $275,000 Machine//lapped flat on one side and then CNC machined ($ 376,000 machine) (using custom made vacuum plates to hold the copper on the 4 axis lathes) with polycrystalline diamond tools (copper is the most abrasive material next to high end aircraft alloys, but worse)to .001 flat and parallel./machined both sides."

"Then they get 3 hand sprayed coats of DEF STAN 80-24/2 air drying laquer."

"Needless to say......Copper cannot be stamped what a ridiculous concept, people all of our products are machined on top class Hardinge CNC machines, by skilled guys, 20 plus yrs in the business,

We do not even own a shear press or stamping machine nor will we ever..."

It would seem that there is a reason it costs what it does afterall.

Also worth re-iterating that mine did cost more than double this one - and is not made of copper.

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His reply is interesting Max, but with a bit of hyperbole. I knew guys who could grind out titanium roll stock to a hundredth thousands of an inch by eye so those tolerances don't necessarily get me excited. Industrial machines are big buck items, and I presume he's not making back the cost by selling a few hundred platters. But the two machines he's talking about come to about $700,000. What's that about 1400 platters?

I'm consulting with a fellow Klipscher whose left the machine shop to work on building space satellites. I've contacted him and will see what he has to say.

In the meantime, I would never contest your findings on the improvements you've observed, given my respect for you, and the analytical skills you bring to this hobby.

Again, though, remember, there are lots of folks running tt's with motors so weak they can hardly get out of their own way. Not to mention the increased rumble you could expect from bearing wear on a typical consumer grade TT.

So again, know what you have, before your drop a ton of heavy metal on it.

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