Decision Time: 5.1 or 7.1

[Youthman]

I'm looking for some advice.

Originally, I had the RF-83's, RC-64 and RB-35's with Velodyne HGS15. RB-35's are mounted on the back wall, very high up. Due to them being mounted so high, I never experienced much benefit from having them there since they are literally angled towards the front screen. All of the sound shoots over the back row and even the front row.

I recently purchased a pair of NIB RS-35's and had a friend make me a custom mount for them since I had to mount one over a sliding glass door. I watched a few demo clips and immediately was thrilled to finally hear surrounds as they should be heard. Very enveloping, unlike what I was experiencing with my badly placed RB-35's.

About 3 days after I mounted the RS-35's, I came across a sweet deal on a pair of RS-52's which should match my system better. I pulled the RS-35's down and mounted the RS-52's. I watched my first movie with my new surrounds (Michael Jackson's "This is It") and it was incredible. My review here.

So for now, the RS-35's are back in their original boxes, the RS-52's are mounted on the side walls and the RB-35's are still mounted high on the back wall.

Here is where I need some advice. I have a few options I am considering:

Option 1 - 7.1 System:
Sell the RB-35's and speaker mounts and mount the RS-35's on the back wall (lower and the same height as the RS-52's. This would bring them closer together than the RB-35's are since the door is in the way.

Option 2 - 5.1 System:
Sell the RB-35's, speaker mounts and the RS-35's and stick with a solid 5.1 system.

Here are my thoughts regarding the two options:

Option 1:
The RS-35's are light and would be easy to mount since they only require a drywall anchor and screw to mount them to the wall. I would need to fish the speaker wire through the wall and over and down a few feet from where they currently are. I would need to patch the holes from the RB-35's mounts. Could use the money from the sell towards three acoustic panels. With a 7.1, the Yamaha might not perform as well with two added speakers.

Options 2:
Could use the money from the sell of both sets of speakers and mount to purchase the Emotiva XPA-3, XPA-5 or a second pair of RS-52's for the back wall.

When I listened to my system as a 7.1, I believe I could tell that the receiver was stuggling a bit. Didn't seem as dynamic as only using 5.1.

Additional info:
Room Dimensions: 13' wide x 19' deep x 10' high.
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V1800 (130 x 7)

With all that said, what would you suggest?

[willland]

Option 3:

Give me the RS-35's and I will give you back your SPL meter.[] LOL

Bill

[Youthman]

I just sat down with a granola bar and a glass of milk. I'm just glad I didn't have milk in my mouth when I read your post or it would have ended up all over my monitor. [] Any real advice Bill?

[BluBitRates]

I would definantly go the amp route. Although the 35s would make perfect SBs. Having the 83's and the 64 a beast of an amp could make all the difference in the world. I have been itchen to maybe check out a emotiva product eventually. Right now i got like 3 items i need to sell before i start looking.

[willland]

Any real advice Bill?

Okay Michael,

I say sell the RB-35's and RS-35's and get that amp you have been yearning for. If you still feel you are just not getting the right surround effects after turbocharging your system, pick up a used pair of RB-51's or 61's and mount them lower next time.

Bill

[Youthman]

Thx for the suggestions Blu and Bill.

Bill, I think Amy should award you with the longest signature. Dude, your signature takes up the entire height of my 19" monitor!

[Youthman]

Give me the RS-35's and I will give you back your SPL meter.

Didn't you just have a pair of RS-35's in your posession that you just recently sold?

[winchester21]

I have always argued that the high end reference stuff craves power- particulary in 7.1. My 7.1 ref system using rf 83s- Rc 64- rb 61s- rb 81s sounded phemoninal.I tried so many different borrowed components and combos that I cant remember them all. It is my strong opinion that somethin like an Emotiva - Outlaw-or some old Carvers or B&Ks are absoultely necessary for a 7.1 ref system and advisable for a 5.1 system. I ran outboards ranging from 150-250 wpc for all channels and it sounded amazing in 7.1. With my 100 watt Sony flagship HT receiver it was less than spectacular. I will not get into the Ht receiver output real power output discussion but you know the drill. My seating positions are dead in the middle of the listening room. I had souounds and rears firing down at the listening position. I think that you are better off going 5.1 for now and addressing the rear speaker issues. The newer DVDs have more and more involvment with the rear channels. You will be thrilled with the outboards. You know your stuff better than most people here and I am sure your chioce will be the right one.

My 2 cts worth. Good luck

[willland]

Didn't you just have a pair of RS-35's in your posession that you just recently sold?

Yes I did but I gave a coworker a really good deal on the RB-35's, RC-35, RS-35's and a pair of speaker stands. He went from a tiny Polk Audio 5.1 system to the RB-35 system. He was absolutely floored when I brought them over to his apt. to demo them. After I left with them he hooked up his Polk system and was deeply disappointed at the sound after hearing the 35's. He came to work the next Monday morning and said he wanted them. I delivered them and set it all up on Friday.

Bill

[wuzzzer]

Option 2 - amp it up! I'd vote XPA-3 to power the front 3 speakers and use the Yamaha for the surrounds.

[peshewah]

Youthman, I think you will get the most out of a amp. Tell yourself you deserve a amp. You need a amp. You want a amp.

[darylomer12]

Definately get an amp.. If your reciever is struggling with 7.1, it really makes no sense to do the 7.1 thing. You'd probably end up shortening the life of your reciever. When you ran the 7.1, did you have it cranked pretty loud? Or just your normal listening level? After you get the Emotiva amp hooked up and you watch your first blu-ray, you'll want to re-watch all your movies again.. At least that's what I did:)

[Youthman]

Youthman, I think you will get the most out of a amp. Tell yourself you deserve a amp. You need a amp. You want a amp.

You guys are a hoot! At least you are all consistent with your advice. I too believe that an external amp would be more of an upgrade than going 7.1.

Proverbs 15:22 says, "Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed." I figure that advice applies to audio purchases too. [] Just trying to get as much counsel as possible to make sure I'm heading in the right direction.

I just emailed clermontcop to see if he still had his XPA-3. I offered my RB-35's and RS-35's for his amp. It was awhile back when he emailed me to see if I wanted to buy it but never gave me an asking price.

[Youthman]

When you ran the 7.1, did you have it cranked pretty loud? Or just your normal listening level?

Not sure. It was a few weeks ago when I got the RS-35's. I had all 7 speakers running and it just sounded different, kinda blah. I then thought maybe the amp was being over taxed so I unhooked the surround backs (RB-35's) and it sounded much better. Not sure what volume I had it up to with 7.1. I did remember I had to turn it up louder than I normally had to to achieve the same volume. Maybe I just didn't crank it up loud enough. I'll try that tomorrow.

Regardless, it won't make much difference now with the RB-35's mounted so high. The real test would be to unhook the RB-35's, extend some speaker wire down to my rear seats, place the RS-35's on the backs of my rear seats and sit in the front seats to see how 7.1 sounds with the rears lower.

[Youthman]

Daryl, which amp do you have? I don't see one listed in your profile.

[darylomer12]

No amp... yet:) I was so close to buying the XPA-5, but the timing was bad ( wife suburban needed new tires etc...) so we just decided to wait. I had an Acurus 200X3 a while back and it made my front soundstage come alive, big time. I was powering my RF-7's, RC-7 and RS-52's with a Denon 3805 (120 wpc) and it sounded good, at least until I hooked up the amp. I didn't know what I was missing until I re-watched some of my movies. It was like I had a thick blanket over my speakers with just the denon. They were removed when I hooked up the amp.. I'll be buying the XPA-5 in a couple weeks, hopefully.

[winchester21]

Another observation- A while back my surround outboard- HK 870 croaked. SO - I ran the fronts- center- and rears with outboards-Leaving the side surrounds with recv power. (recent Heritage setup)This was for a 6 month period. It was kinda Okay.. but it sounded like something was muflled and not working properly. When I found the 2nd B&K 4420 off e-bay to match my other one..WOW.. what a difference. I know that it seems like a lot of money to run surrounds/rears- to buy outboards for everything but IMHO- It makes a noticable difference. I also tried running the 3 ch 250 wpc Carver with recv power to both the rears and surrounds ( Ref system) to see if I needed the outboards. I could kinda make it work but I had to adjust the heck out of the other channels to hear them. I scapped that idea also. I know that the fronts and center carry most of the program material but cutting corners will will make the background effects sound muffled and distant. This is not so much with tracks like transformer and the show your system off DVDS- but with the lesser recorded rentals and TV- the system is lacking without the right stuff.-

[InVeNtOr]

well since you asked i am going to chime in. since i drew your room in 3D i can say to it "looks" better. mount the smallest (physical size) of your RB series you have on the back wall. they shouldn't be more than a foot (bottom of speaker) to the top of your rear seats. if you have too, go in walls. then i would strongly suggest you make some cheap quick 2x4 speaker stands and lower your side surrounds at least a foot or so. i would make several heights of those stands and see which one makes the surrounds "come alive!"

i suggest the rb series for your back walls because the front row is so far away that a rs series sounds will and should be blended a bit. i totally agree with you saying they are currently mounted too high and they fire over your head. i had my rb speakers just a couple of feet too high and it sounded like they weren't even back there.

mount that one rb speaker (back left - looking at pic) right next to the door frame. then mount the other the equal distance away. or you can even mount both of them in the center and run a 6.1. you would have to make a splice jumper in the wire, but it will work just the same. i almost think a 6.1 is best for you. that back wall being so narrow restricts some of your optional placement.

that's my 2cents

[Youthman]

I've heard the "muffled" statement from others as well. I'm curious how much of a difference it will make. Can't wait.

This is not so much with tracks like
transformer and the show your system off DVDS- but with the lesser
recorded rentals and TV- the system is lacking without the right
stuff.-

We do not have cable, watch only 1 tv show (American Idol) and do not use downloads like Netflix. To be honest, I cannot image a $1200 receiver struggling with only two RS-52 surrounds and making them sound "muffled" if the front three speakers are being driven by a separate amp.

Inventor, I definitely will not be going with inwalls. I would rather do without. Your suggestion of height for the back surrounds is what I was thinking, about 1ft above the top of the back seats and mounting the left speaker somewhere close to the door frame. Side surrounds are not going to be lowered. They are currently at 6ft which is in line with guidelines provided by both Dolby and THX. Second reason is that I do not want people banging their head into the speaker when they come into or leave the room. They sound great where they are so no need to change their height.

[InVeNtOr]

well if they sound good, that's all the matters. i suggested it because i too followed the guidlines and they sounded like crap (compared to finished height). that was the reason why i said to buy 2x4's and make cheap stands just for testing. it only cost me around $8 to make 3 different heights for 4 speakers. i then put books or what ever for inbetween heights.

i am also suggesting putting the rb speakers on the VERTICAL portion of the door frame, not the horzinatal. i wonder if they will be too close to be able to hear a difference when the sound shifts from one to another.

let us know how it works out!