Guest David H Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Dave, your veneer work is fantastic! I love the way you lined up the grain on the front, the way it wraps around the bottom woofer, and then the little "V" in between the woofers. Exquisite. Is this paper-backed? Any trouble turning the radius? Thanks Greg, it is paper backed, and I had no issues turning the radious, it was very easy. Is the Beyma TPL150 the same thing as the Heil? I'm still waiting for a special price from my supplier on the TPL150. I told him I wanted to try a pair out for myself and asked what he could do for me. There's a new shipment coming in next week, we'll see. I've got a decent credit there right now that I'd like to use up! The TP-150 and the Heil are the same Concept, both are pleated ribbon diaphrams originally pateneted By: Dr Oscar Heil of Electrostatic Sound Systems. Johnny 5 turned me on to these drivers, he worked for ESS along with Nelson Pass and a few other well known manufacturers in the 80's when ESS was still in Sacramento. Hope you are able to try the TPL-150's I think they might add mind blowing clarity to your system. In comparison to the CP-25 the Heil has better clarity and an almost holographic soundstage due to its di-polar design. Don't get me wrong, the CP-25 is an excellent contender, especially considering their low cost. The Heil or TPL-150 is definately a cost no object upgrade that is only going better the system by a percentage, but im my opinion is well worth it for those looking for the ultimate performer. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I'm going to rig up a SPDT switch this weekend and try it out just setting the tweeter on top of the Cornscala. If it sounds good I'll get back to you on my box idea. Herb I'll be interested in your findings, keep me updated.Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 The TP-150 and the Heil are the same Concept, both are pleated ribbon diaphrams originally pateneted By: Dr Oscar Heil of Electrostatic Sound Systems. Johnny 5 turned me on to these drivers, he worked for ESS along with Nelson Pass and a few other well known manufacturers in the 80's when ESS was still in Sacramento. Hope you are able to try the TPL-150's I think they might add mind blowing clarity to your system. In comparison to the CP-25 the Heil has better clarity and an almost holographic soundstage due to its di-polar design. Don't get me wrong, the CP-25 is an excellent contender, especially considering their low cost. The Heil or TPL-150 is definately a cost no object upgrade that is only going better the system by a percentage, but im my opinion is well worth it for those looking for the ultimate performer. Dave The TPL150 is rated 99db eff and with the horn 102db eff. This may end up being a problem for me. It depends on the accuracy of their ratings. With the Behringer setup, I can listen to just the tweeters, and it's amazing how little energy is coming from them already as compared to the mids and woofers. Drop that by a couple of db with a different tweeter, and I don't know . . . Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaspr Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 and it's amazing how little energy is coming from them already as compared to the mids and woofers. I can only speak for myself but after many years of power tools and the odd rock concert, it is amazing how much hearing loss I have at frequencies above 8khz... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 The TPL150 is rated 99db eff and with the horn 102db eff. This may end up being a problem for me. It depends on the accuracy of their ratings. Greg, go to the Beyma site and look at the response charts, I think you will find that both the CP-25 and the TPL-150 are very similar in SPL, and the TPL is smoother overall. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 A lot less distortion too. Need more output? Use an autoformer (they work backwards too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 A lot less distortion too. Need more output? Use an autoformer (they work backwards too). All true. I think the output will be about right, but using the autoformer as a step up is always an option.Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Autoformers are wonderful devices. But as with all things in life, there is no free lunch. Dean forgot to mention some warnings about using an autoformer to "boost" the signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Autoformers are wonderful devices. But as with all things in life, there is no free lunch. Dean forgot to mention some warnings about using an autoformer to "boost" the signal. Tom, would you care to elaborate? I understand the impedence change, however for the 3db gain we are talking about crossover tweaks are the only real concern.Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hklinker Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I'm going to rig up a SPDT switch this weekend and try it out just setting the tweeter on top of the Cornscala. If it sounds good I'll get back to you on my box idea. Herb I'll be interested in your findings, keep me updated.Dave Headed to the Shack tomorrow to pick up the switches. Too pretty outside today to work on speakers!Herb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Autoformers are wonderful devices. But as with all things in life, there is no free lunch. Dean forgot to mention some warnings about using an autoformer to "boost" the signal. There is the possibility of saturating the core. I suppose anything is possible, but it's hard to imagine that being a problem with something like the UT 3619 or 3636 in a tweeter filter. OTOH, I don't have much of an imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Guys, Don't worry about saturating the 3619 core. When I evaluated the very first 3619 transformer I got from Universal Transformer, I forced 50W RMS through it and measured the distortion. NONE! The only boost you can get from a transformer by reversing it is VOLTAGE gain. Power will remain the same and the impedance reflected back will go DOWN. The swamping resistor idea is OUT. Any filter to operate into it will have to be designed for an impedance lower than the impedance of the driver it is loaded by. Right off, the only use I can think of for doing that is to match a 16 Ohm tweeter to an 8 ohm filter without loosing anything. The 16 Ohm tweeter would be connected 0 - 5 with the 8 Ohm input to 4 - 0. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Autoformers are wonderful devices. But as with all things in life, there is no free lunch. Dean forgot to mention some warnings about using an autoformer to "boost" the signal. There is the possibility of saturating the core. I suppose anything is possible, but it's hard to imagine that being a problem with something like the UT 3619 or 3636 in a tweeter filter. OTOH, I don't have much of an imagination. Well, transformers are passive devices. So if the voltage goes up, what gives? The power is constant and the power is equal to the voltage squared divided by the R. So what gives? It's the R or the impedance that the amplifier "sees". For folks using tube amps, would this be a good idea? For folks using smallish amps, would this be a good idea? For folks who are believers in "constant impedance" crossovers, would this be a good idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Tom, The applicable equation is really power = E * I. A transformer's ratios are opposite and equal for voltage and current. If a transformer has a turns ratio of 2, the voltage goes up by 2 and current down by 2. The product, that is, the power, stays the same. The impedance is r = E / I, so only the impedance changes. If you change the load on the secondary by the square of that ratio (4). the impedance seen at the source stays the same. consider: (E * 2) / (I * 0.5) = 2 / .5 = 4 AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Al, we are not in disagreement since we have said the same thing: transformers can increase the voltage (not the power or wattage), so the impedance has to "give" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Been a while since this thread was updated, here I texture coated the HF setion and painted. I also added a vibration isolation to the separator which reduces LF vibration from making it to the HF section signifigantly. Using this type of build I was able to time align these speakers using the DCX 2496 to make the measurements needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hklinker Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Lookin good, Dave! BTW, I hope you used only "stock" Fastlane components in this project.[] Herb "ILITM" Klinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Lookin good, Dave! BTW, I hope you used only "stock" Fastlane components in this project. Herb "ILITM" Klinker I would not dream of using anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 What textured paints have you tried? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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