matthew2 Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 I am pretty sure the Bryston B60 is an integrated amp right? Is it any good, and how much does it cost? (Nice to know in CDN dollers?)but I could convert. Thanks ------------------ Matthew Klipsch Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 New, they are about $2k US. See http://www.audiogon.com/ for used prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 What is the general feeling about Bryston? All I know is that they are; expensive, from Canada (Eh?), and have a 25 year warranty. I have heard nothing but good things about their products and support. Any input for it? Does Klipsch + Bryston = $$$ & happyness? ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew2 Posted March 23, 2002 Author Share Posted March 23, 2002 $2000 US? Ouch. Not gonna happen! I thaught they were like the same price as the RF3! ------------------ Matthew Klipsch Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Bryston is regarded as a "can't miss" amp if you are talking solid state - one of the better brands available. 20 year transferable warranty (not needed often but first rate service) and very reliable and stable. If I had the dough, I would buy Bryston amps all around for my HT (would especially like one for my yet to arrive JBL subs), but that's a bit out of my price league. For 2 channel, the Bryston integrated amps and amp/preamp combos are said to be even better as the amps/preamps match each other perfectly. Good stuff. ------------------ First we Rock, then we Roll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted March 24, 2002 Share Posted March 24, 2002 The comments above regarding Bryston quality are accurate for anything they have produced in the past 20 years or so. There was a time around 1980 when the sound quality of Bryston amps was not what it had been or has been since. As I understand it the boys at Bryston got a little too concerned with producing massively powerful amplifiers and for a time they allowed their lust for power to compromise the sonic quality. About 1980 they got themselves back on the rails and their amps are justifiably rated as amongst the best Solid State equipment available. Typically Bryston amps are very high powered and are often used by audiophiles driving very inefficient speakers such as Dynaudio's,Martin Logans etc. Some of the Bryston power amps are capable of putting out a kilowatt of power. Amplifiers of this type are not my cuppa,(who the hello need a KW to drive KLF30's ?), but if you like Solid State amps they are worth a serious look. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca.1900) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 24, 2002 Share Posted March 24, 2002 I just listened to the Bryston 4B-ST yet again this afternoon. This is a VERY nice solid state amp, and while I dont think it is equal to quality tube power in the musicality department, it is easily a VERY VERY high quality amp. I dont know of too many solid state amps that are much better really for the price, especially in the used market. The Bryston 4B-ST did top the Monarchy Audio SM-70 I had on loan as it sounded more refined with a far more controlled bottom end; this amp has a grip on thy woofers. Of course, we are talking a triple the price comparison as well. If you MUST have solid state, it is a cant lose situation in the used category with a 20 year warranty. I personally dont see the need on high efficient Klipsch, especially the vintage members. But if you must go there, it's a fine place to be. kh ps- The 3.5w Wright 2A3 had it over the 4B-ST in the all important midrange. ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-24-2002 at 11:29 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew2 Posted March 25, 2002 Author Share Posted March 25, 2002 Thanks for the replies guys Mobile: Yes I can see why tubes would be better in the mids. However, what if my music doesn't all take place in the mids. I'll liston to anything from Supertramp, to metallica, to Dr. Dre. Bass heavy stuff! How do tubes do with "newer" music? ------------------ Matthew Klipsch Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Well, Matthew2...you're in luck. No one's music all takes place in the mids. But the mids offer the key to musical sound, whether it be Boss Hog, Sonic Youth, Ben Webster, Ella Fitzgerald, Denisov, or Bella Fleck... Of course, some of this music relies more on mids then others, that is quite true. I dont know. Maybe I should stop blabbering on about tubes when I do know that plenty of people would be very happy with quality solid state; in fact, if you didnt know that tubes existed, and never heard the difference, I think many would be happy as sheep herders in New Zealand. Personally, however, I dont know how anyone can listen to vintage Klipsch with HT amps and mid-fi solid state; the sound can rip a hole through the center of your skull. If you have the ducats and want to give it a go, I think many would be happy with they Bryston amps or a pair of Monarchy SM-70/SM-70 Pro Monoblocks, USED of course. The Bryston is worth the scratch used, not new. A 4B-ST is a nice amp with incredible dynamics and a relatively smooth treble. I can appreciate this sound and even like on things. On the other hand, in the long run, it does not please this poor tube junkie, even though it does the audiophile dance with aplomb. Actually, how much do you want to spend on an amp? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 matthew2 I will have to second Mobile's tube comments, Tubes play almost any music better than $1500 to $2000 worth of solid state. Here at my house we listen to every type of music you could name short of Classical. I have vintage klipsch and new klipsch speakers. They all sound incredible on tubes and I'm not talking high Dollar here I don't have a tube rig that I have over 225.00 in the purchase price and maybe $75 more in misc. Parts to bring them up to snuff. If you want quality sound on the cheap there's nothing that can touch integrated vintage tube amps. Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-25-2002 at 08:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 Is there somthing "magical" about "used" tube amps, or does it just represent a better value for the dollar? If I was going to get an intergrated tube amp, I would want to spend UNDER $1000, anything good? Hey, how bout' a tube amp with a full array of DIGITAL inputs and a 8" LCD panel on it! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 There is a butt-load of Bryston gear on eBay, well not a lot, but some REAL stuff, 4, 4B's and other amps. WHAT DOES THE ST MEAN AT THE END OF THE NAME? If it DOESN'T have the ST? ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 25, 2002 Share Posted March 25, 2002 I not at all famliar with the current available new tube amp offerings. Mobile could fill you in much better than I could. I can tell you one thing for sure. Your not going to find any with LCD's on them thank god !!! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Mobile H. and Craig Not any music sounds better on tube amps,I listen to ALOT of techno and electronic in general and guess what? No tube will even be close to a majestic Krell FPB600 or my Celeste W5.A clear win for the solid state camp,not even a close call. The Krell has bass grip(control)no tube has(name them all)and power so vast my Dynaudio Contours sound HUGE. For any acoustic music tube amps take the crown easy,its no arguing.The life they bring back to voices and instruments is heaven sent. Well again I am a bass freak and like my non audiophile CD's.No shame in that Solid state is king in my systems,great solid state mind you.Not trash can rackmount "pro" amps Bryston ranks in the top ten among solid state power amps,no doubt. IMO the very best solid state amps are from: Krell(king of solid state amps,none are better NONE) Boulder(only next to Krell IMO) Pass Labs(Pass Aleph) Celeste(bargain,my choice high-end down to earth prices) Mark Levinson(great but a bit too pricey) Bryston(bargain,built to lasst and last and last) CinePro(bargain) Pilnus(oh so smooth) Perreaux(one of my faves) Jeff Rowland(great but you pay BIG for the looks too) YBA(muisc,music for audiophile who dont trust ss amps) TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 I have been seeing a lot of LCD on fancy pants (not tube) preamps. I bet, in 5 years, $500 receivers WILL have LCD's on them for preview/control. In cars, you can now find $35,000 cars with LCD/DVD. Next year it will drop a few thousand. In a decade, LCD/DVD will be in all but the cheapest cars. Just put the two together. However, tubes and LCD have no date planned... ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Yes, the ST is rather significant. IT should be GS for Good Sound, as the ST lifts the Bryston away from the more "pro sound" type of amplifier they have been in the past. The normal 4B is a good amplifier. Competent but not in the same league as the newer ST version. Ditto with all the non-ST versions vs their more refined "ST" counterparts. I personally would not get one. To actually answer your question though, the "ST" stands for the head engineer at Bryston named Stuart Taylor. They really are a step up in sound quality from the older Brystons. But to answer my good Quebecian friend, Ear, Techno music can sound VERY good on tubes, even vintage ones. My friend from Seattle went on an across the nation record buying binge and stopped by my place on the east coast and we lugged his collection up the stair and listened to a lot of great underground electronica, much of it on vinyl, via my EICO HF-81 and Cornwalls. IT was rocking the house and with more soul than Sir Krell, amps that I am quite familiar with. Although I have not heard the FPB series but in a HIFI hut. Yes, that is a helluva amp, indeed. Just not my cup of tea. Although I sure would not mind having one to kick around if I had a spare 10k or so! kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-26-2002 at 12:37 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 I agree that taste in music can play a big part in what type of amp is ideal. For example, if all you listened to was rap music, then solid state is probably the only way to go. On the other hand, most people don't listen to just one type of music. I am now a tube fan. I think good tubes can sound better than solid-state for just about any type of music (with rap being the possible exception). I actually like a wide variety of music, so tubes seem to work best for me. I should mention that I have auditioned only one tube amp in my system, an Audio Research VT-50. So my experience with tube amps has only one data point. The best solid state amp I had up to that point was a Jeff Rowland amp that weighed 100 lbs. This amp did sound better than the Threshold and Classe amps I previously had. I thought Rowland was as good as it got. When I bought the Rowland, I wasn't going to be able to audition it at home since I planned to buy used. So I went by what reviews I had read and recommendations from dealers. I finally wanted to get a high-quality, "high-end" amp. I considered Levinson, Rowland, Krell, Classe, and Threshold among others. After much thought, I was torn between the Levinson and Rowland. "The Krell has better bass than Classe, but the Classe is smoother" is what a dealer that carried both lines told me. They also carried Levinson and that was their reference. Someone told me that Rowlands have more "soul" than Levinson. I ended up goint to Colorado Springs on a business trip and had enough time to stop by the Jeff Rowland factory. I got the tour and got to listen to their megabuck system in their listening room. The sound was amazing. I haver heard the Krell FPB, and the top of the line Levinson, but this Rowland system sounded more refined. The sound was so clear and smooth! I guess it should have been for a system that probably cost over $100K. I decided then to get a Rowland, and that's what I did. Less than a year later, I decided to try tubes when I found the VT-50 used. I had heard the VT-100 at a dealer, and thought it sounded great, so decided to try the VT-50. Since I'm using Klipsch, I don't need the extra power. The VT-50 puts out 45 wpc. As soon as I powered up the VT-50, I knew I was going to sell the Rowland. The difference was noticable from the very start, even before the tubes warmed up. Now the one area where the Rowland had the advantage (as well as the other SS units I had) was in the bass. But honestly, the difference was very small. I don't hear any of the "weaknesses" you hear about tube amps (sloppy bass, noise, poor highs). They just aren't there with this amp. I have read several review of the VT amps from ARC, and they all seem to say that these amps are very neutral and they sound more like solid state. So maybe I haven't gotten a good taste of what tube amps sound like, but I do like this amp better than any of the solid state amps I have owned. As far as music goes with this amp, it can play it all quite well. The first CD I played with this amp was live AC/DC. They sounded better with this 45 watts tube amp than with tons of solid state power. All of my rock CD's from the 80's sounds better with this amp. I can now listen to those CD's. They didn't sound very good with solid state. I eventually plan to give SET's a shot. I think I am going to like them very much. I have been thinking about doing this for quite some time. I also think they will do well with my varied taste in music. If you are looking to impress with spectactuar sonics, then solid-state is hard to beat, but if you want to enjoy your music, then go with tubes. This of course is just my viewpoint based on the limited experiences I have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 TheEar I think I said "$1500 to $2000 worth of solid state" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 JMON I have 3 different solid state setups and 2 tube setups at my house. My daughter and all her friends ages 13 to 17 are all rapp lovers and you no where they like to hang out if I'm not in there. My little work/shop music room with my Scott 299 amp, Heresy's and KSW-15 sub to listen to the bass pounding music. So again tubes do the job. They all say its so "tight" as they talk these day's. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew2 Posted March 26, 2002 Author Share Posted March 26, 2002 Thanks for all the info guys. I am 16 in high school, so $2000 amps are not gonna happen. really, If the B60 was cheep, I'd save, but it's not. Since I can't have a Credit card, I can't buy off the net... Im thinking Klipsch RF3II's with a 2ch Harmen.K. reciever. Not high end but not garbage. I think it has pre-outs, so I may get a nice power amp for it. (If I can) NOS440: Your kids play rap on tubes? I would think the bass would be "slow." Not tight. Sure it wasn't the 15" sub? ------------------ Matthew Klipsch Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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