Which driver for the MWM singles?

[Coytee]

If you missed it, I seem to have won an ebay listing for a pair of MWM single bass bins. They claim they do not know if they work or not....

If they work, then no problems. If they do NOT work and I need new drivers, then should I get the K33's or K43's?

Roy said the 33's might dig deeper but I already know they are not rated for as high power. He also indicated the 43 will play louder than the 33. I presume he means with extra power applied, not at the SAME power levels (?)

These MWM's would be used in a 2-way format with the K-402/K69 sitting on top of them. Signal chain would be preamp to Dx38 to perhaps two Crown K2's or maybe a residential dbx BX3 (4 channel amp).

These won't be doing stadium parties but.... I DO live in the country with few neighbors so there is little problem with stepping on the volume from time to time.

Thoughts?

Oh, I might add.... I'd REALLY rather have stereo double bass bins. So, over the upcoming future, if I find another pair of single bass bins, I might attempt to get them as well.

Here's where it gets interesting.

Would there be an issue if one pair of bass bins had K33's and the other had K43's?

To be more exact, would there be a problem with a 2-stack of mwm's having a MIX of K33 and K43 in the SAME stack? If I got another pair of cabinets and they looked different than these, I might want to put these with the metal trim on the bottom and set the other stack on top which would be mixing the two bass bins.

The above question is really more in theory than something that will probably happen. I'm just being curious.

[Guest " "]

so many woofers.....so little time

[Coytee]

You're going to think woofers, after I sic my little dogs on you!

This is all your fault. Had I not seen your post I would be ignorantly blissfully doing yardwork with the wife this weekend. As it is, I might have to drive 20 hours round trip and return to a very cold house.......very cold. [:^)]

[Guest " "]

Ignorance is a bliss....

did I ever tell you the %$#@ story...never mind

[Coytee]

Get this....

Me, being desperate as I am.... put a notice out on two tractor forums to see if anyone who's shipping a tractor, might have extra room.

Though it's not a tractor, there happens to be a guy who is 2 hours south of these speakers, already in Florida who is making a trip this weekend/next week (depending) from below Ocala all the way up I-75 to Ohio.

He will be within 20 miles of my home and said he'd bring them for $100.

I said that's a no brainer!!!

So, if I can get he & the seller together, the speakers are already paid for. Only a matter of getting them both on the same page to allow a transfer and it looks as though I have avoided a trip to Florida.

Now I can stay home & help the wife plant petunias whilest the MWM's make their way towards me. This will have a hidden side benefit of allowing me another day or two to figure out how to tell her about our new arrivals.

If I sound bold & confident.... trust me I am....would I lie?

[dtel]

You can't hide down here. []

K43 can take more power, I think it was the driver designed for the MWM, but there expensive.

I used Bob's cast frame, you do have to grind a small amount off the very outside edge of the frame of the speaker, maby 1/8''. I think they say it goes a little deeper.

That's what I used and at $275 a pair there much cheaper than the k43.

The pair I have in the workshop has the K43's in them, I got them from speakerfritz a couple/few years ago, he gave me a good deal but there not always easy to find.

I don't know if you could even hear a difference, Claude had tried a K43 in one and a K33 in another and had to test them to find a difference. I think he said the K33 went lower but the K 43 had a little more mid bass. BUT he had to test them to find that out, so i don't think it's anything noticeable.

A story we haven't heard ?

[mark1101]

At 105 db in my room (according to my RTA) my MC-252 which drives my bass cabinets shows roughly 2 watts. Maybe 3-5 watt peaks at times. I see aboslutely no requirement for a K43. The K43 was a compromise in sound so customers using ridiculous power would stop blowing woofers. The K33 is the proper woofer for the MWM. Bob Crites clones are a very close match as well.

[Coytee]

At 105 db in my room (according to my RTA) my MC-252 which drives my bass cabinets shows roughly 2 watts. Maybe 3-5 watt peaks at times. I see aboslutely no requirement for a K43. The K43 was a compromise in sound so customers using ridiculous power would stop blowing woofers. The K33 is the proper woofer for the MWM. Bob Crites clones are a very close match as well.

Realize these will probably be used exclusively outdoors and will never be inside my home (on a permanant basis). Does that change your logic at all?

I would think if outdoors, they might end up getting more abuse?

I just realized I have an extra K33 laying around so I'm planning on trying it out.

[mark1101]

A K-33 can take a continuous 100 watts/ch and Bob Crites clones are around only $100.00. You will use LESS power outside.......LESS. Remember we had a conversation about that in the Georgia mountains. So, no.......my logic is the same. Truly though, If it were me I would use the woofer that sounds best. I never did a shootout of a K43 vs. a K33. I just heard the history of MWM development at Klipsch and knew the K33 was the original woofer used. That was good enough for me. Roy told me they had more energy at 40hz and less at 140hz than a K43. I am running Crites stamped K33 clones that are supposedly designed to match the early K33 and I am happy with what I am getting. Others who had tried the cast frame Crites clones love them. That's what Bob had in his Khorns at the recent gathering and I have to admit I never heard Khorns put out bass like that. So you have multiple options.

[Coytee]

You will use LESS power outside.......LESS

Still trying to get my head wrapped around that [] Looking forward to trying it myself. [Y]

[mark1101]

One other thing. I have been listening to the MWMs for over a year now and my only very minor complaint about them is that they don't play low enough. This is where I always felt the Jubs were better way down low, the MWMs better everywhere else up to around 300hz. So just my opinion but the better woofer for the MWM would be one with more energy down at 40hz where the horn needs the help most.

[colterphoto1]

nm

[ClaudeJ1]

One other thing. I have been listening to the MWMs for over a year now and my only very minor complaint about them is that they don't play low enough. This is where I always felt the Jubs were better way down low, the MWMs better everywhere else up to around 300hz. So just my opinion but the better woofer for the MWM would be one with more energy down at 40hz where the horn needs the help most.

Mark is correct. I posted about my converstaion with Gary Gillum, retired Klipsch chief engineer (before Jim Hunter and Roy Delgado) and patent co-holder with PWK on the MWM design. He said the MWM was developed with the K-33 and that the K-43 was especially made by Eminence so it could handle more power, since, at that time, stage amplifiers got to be ridiculously high wattage and would blow the K-33's. I got lower bass out of the K-33's by a few hz. This is measurable and audible, but it's not an octave by any means.

Currently, I'm running some JBL clone (chines made like everything else these days) woofers in my MWM bins, and they are the best I have ever measured or heard, BUT they are in a different room than before, so take that with a grain of salt.

[ClaudeJ1]

One other thing. I have been listening to the MWMs for over a year now and my only very minor complaint about them is that they don't play low enough. This is where I always felt the Jubs were better way down low, the MWMs better everywhere else up to around 300hz. So just my opinion but the better woofer for the MWM would be one with more energy down at 40hz where the horn needs the help most.

Agreed on the K-33 being a more economical alternative and a lower one. It's true that the 6 ft. horn lenght, vs. 8 for the Jubes and Khorns has a bit higher cutoff by about 10 Hz a the low end, BUT since it rises a bit before it drops, it has a better linear hearing/feel factor on music (built in ISO loudness compensation of sorts). It still has a little bit of output at 35 hz. though. With Audyssey EQ, mine do well even on movies without a sub, since I have lots of room gain and some special woofers. I cross mine to a lower mid horn at about 180 hz. so I don't get to 300, but it's a good place to stop using an MWM. With only 2 folds and a very "open" design, it has more "immediacy" to the bass on music than any other horn woofer I have owned or heard. It's, overall, the most satisfying bass I have ever owned, including Khorns. I like that thing firing straight at me, LOL.

[colterphoto1]

MWM = effortless bass.

[thackmate]

K-43 is for MWM systems period

if you bought models that were built prior to 1992 then you would need the pressed steel frame versions of the woofers or modify the dog house to accept the cast aluminium framed K-43-K/KP

[colterphoto1]

K-43 is for MWM systems period

if you bought models that were built prior to 1992 then you would need the pressed steel frame versions of the woofers or modify the dog house to accept the cast aluminium framed K-43-K/KP

Thank you Ian, we like a good authoratitive response.

Personally I don't monkey with my Klipsch speakers, I like the way PWK, Roy and team engineered them and refurbish mine to original specs whenever possible.

Another option is to grind two sides of the cast frame woofer flat with a belt sander, I've shown photos of this process under MWM rebuild thread here on this forum.

Michael

[thackmate]

Thanks for the kind words Michael and I like your option as well. Have a good vaccum handy for those who choose to grind on a frame. The doping on the spider and surround can be tacky and attractive for fine aluminum particles. By the way, when the MWM was developed Roy was still at school but P. Wilbur had some rather good helpers around all the same. If my memory serves Gary Gillum and Don Keele worked on the MCM system project and the W horn bin concept had already been around and proven. Klipsch just did it better in my opinion. I had 4 x MWMs and 4 x MWM-S (all BG) in a rig that I used at pub gigs in Melbourne. A bugger to lug around but certainly everyone could "feel the kick" (in the next suburb). I can remember seeing Lee Sklar on stage with an MWM for his bass monitor - awesome!

[thackmate]

yes ...Don Keele of Electrovoice constant directivity (CD) horn fame was once an engineer under PWK. I think he was in on the MSM horn manifold patent and the MTM piezo tweeter array. (many laughed at the MTM piezo tweeter array but they worked very well ....just ask Clair Brothers....they still use the concept and really, who is going to question a Clair Brothers PA?)

[colterphoto1]

I think Hunter was in on the MSM manifold, the early ones look like they're made of plumbing fittings, were quite a few made before the final design came to fruition. Kind of interesting the way that resin was sand-cast. Bet that was a cool process, did they do that on site or did a specialty firm do the castings?