boa12 Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 dan, those you mentioned are subwoofers & have real solid high spl output below 30hz. for one the hgs-18 is flat to 12.5hz per reviews. in short, the bigger varities of the subs you mentioned have more extension, and more output down there at 25hz & lower. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danartdis Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 But how does this suddenly wildly popular JBL stack up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 well i already have plenty of woofers handling the 40hz+ range & the hgs-18 handling below that so I guess i'll never know as far as my ht sys. thought about one in the music listening lounge, but decided the rf-3 were enough for music only in such a tiny room. from what i've heard the jbl packs a huge whallop at 30hz+. for ht i'd prefer to have a subwoofer & w/ more extension down low. not slammin the jbl at all. maybe somebody has it & a lower extending sub can comment. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danartdis Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 Thanks Boa. Anybody else want to weigh in on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 Danartdis: I can't comment with experience since mine have not arrived yet. However, it was mentioned before that the JBL specs (that these things only go down to 30Hz) are very conservative for a home application. These speakers were supposedly measured in free space, since their intended application are for very large open spaces (movie theaters, sports arenas, etc.). In another thread, TBrennan mentioned that he measured his 4648's flat down to 25Hz. 25Hz was as low as his meter went, so it may very well go lower than that. The 4648 spec states it's usuable frequency response only goes down to 35Hz, so the 4638's may go even lower (usable down to 30Hz). From what I have heard, these should work excellent for home theater subs. They still may not go as low as some dedicated subwoofers (producing "sound" that is too low to be heard, but can be felt), but I don't think those frequencies will be encountered that much. If you got one, I doubt that you would notice a lack of deep frequency extension. However, at the price, they cannot be beaten (or even approached) by any of those subs you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 I have the 4648A-8, which has better woofers ($350 EACH!) and when I listen to music with deep bass, my knees go weak and my pants LITERALLY flap around. I have no doubts, if in a room, the subs can get into the 20's ot teens. Come on, DUAL 15" woofers! That is a guess, I need support from others! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danartdis Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 Thanks JMon. And now I have to seriously ponder parting with some more loot since you guys have me convinced that this is the bargain of the century! For the record, so I have this right, its sort of big and it requires an external amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 jmon, w/ my hgs-18 I encounter those frequencies all the time w/ the lfe for all kinds of material. like lower order harmonics on explosions & such. you're right for music. hardly anything 'cept for this new pipe organ disk, enya & such. iow, pipe organs & synthesizers & music w/ thunder in the backround. this has already been covered on the jbl in all the previous threads, so i'll bow out before i get flamed to death from the jbl mania. i myself w/ my lower bass feeling needs would use it only w/ music & yea i'd think it'd probably do fine on the pipe organ & enya stuff. course if i could ever sample 1 it may just go into the listenin lounge. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 I will give a thorough review once my amp and eq get here (still in transit), and the system is hooked up. I intend to use it for HT and 2 channel, so I will cover both sides of the equation for you. BTW - I used window cleaner to get the pesky glue from the cabinet tops. ------------------ First we Rock, then we Roll! A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002 This message has been edited by dndphishin on 04-03-2002 at 07:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 Danartdis: Yes, it is big (very big, check out the dimensions from the JBL site -- close in size to a Cornwall/La Scala). It does require an amp, but as others have mentioned you can get one from Parts Express (among other sources) for not much more than $130 or so. All in all, you can have a complete setup for around $350. I'm not sure you can get an HT subwoofer from Best Buy for that much. Is this the "deal of the century"? Maybe not, but I will tell you that JBL is literally almost giving these things away. The $216 includes shipping and a large 140 pound box isn't cheap to ship across the country! Boa: I don't doubt that you are getting some of those frequencies from your sub. My point was that I think the JBL would still reproduce most of what you're getting, it just does it at a much lower price. This of course is just my somewhat "educated guess" based on what I've heard others say as I have yet to hear one of these JBL rigs. This message has been edited by JMON on 04-03-2002 at 10:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002 WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Yes, the sub is HUGE! You need an amp, $130 partsexpress.com amp will do you good. Spending more is up to you, as the sub EQ fetures are GREAT on the Parts Express! Other than that, there is no catch. Enjoy! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 jmon, guess that depends on what you mean by most. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Boa: Since I haven't heard these things, I'll have to say by "most", I mean somewhere between 51% and 99%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Boa---My RTA shows my dual 4648s flat at 25, that's with the EQ from the PE plateamp. What does your rig show? You got numbers? And 4 2226s are gonna move alot more air at lower distortion than a single "hi-fi" build 18. With one exception the subs I've heard sound like rumbling, overshooting runaway junk compared to the 4648s. Ahhh, it's all moot, I'm going to sell the JBLs and get the Edgar Seismic anyhow, everything sounds crummy compared to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 dnd, can't remember if you have other speaks besides the cornwalls for HT also, but i'll be curious to how the jbl compare to cornwalls w/ say a good high power 200W/channel or so amp. that's my thing, even if i had the space they still really wouldn't fit into my sys. b&k 200WX7 amp w/ 75 amps peak, (2)15" woofers, (4) 12", & (4) 8" as well as the 18" w/ it's own 3000W peak class D amp. of course they're spread throughout the room but they still seem to have a cumulative effect (after the intense tweaking). true as jmon points out wouldn't need the hgs-18 for most music material anyway. but it's still an added bonus as then the other speaks can be freed from 50hz & above & it does the hgs up to there as well as great spl from 12.5hz w/ some output in the single digits for those elephants. be curious where u low pass cut the jbl to best blend with the cornwalls too. wonder also where they'd best be cut w/ my rf-3. i'd definitely need that external crossover (rather than using my marantz' fixed 80hz) i guess. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 tom, sorry we crossed there. got you the drivers up there anyway. "hi-fi" rumbler eh. have you heard an hgs-18? what's the spl at 25hz 1W/1M no more than 10% distortion. i can dig up my spl numbers there & at 20hz & 15hz. you got numbers there? oh that's right, there's no material down there anyway. those jbl low frequency drivers are tuned high. don't matter how many you put together, you still don't get extension beyond where ever they go (which seems to keep dropping - 30, 25, do I hear 20hz? ). i really missed these SPL wars but then there are also that bass quality thangs. no contest there. hey i know the thing kicks but don't try to make it into a real sub. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 KRB wrote: "A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002 WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?" You will all find out....very soon, very soon. Jerry Garcia once sang "all good things in all good time". Boa: We're gonna find out! Based on the reviews here on the forum, I think these will match up well with the Cornwalls (and the soon to be arriving Chorus). I was using a Velodyne CT150 initially, and I found it was "slow", especially on 2 channel. It was a good value, but not ideally matched to high efficiency Klipsch. Based on TBrennan's recommendations several months ago, I began researching the possibility of using the JBL's - and thier limitations. They may not extend as low as the HGS18 or SVS units, but these JBL's should deliver rock solid output down to 25hz in excess of 120 db SPL - with the speed to work well with my heritage Klipsch. I told a friend of mine on the west coast about my little venture (we sold A/V gear together some years back), so he showed his theater sales and installation buddy what we are up to with these JBL's. He thinks we are certified nuts - that the JBL's won't do what his Carver Signatures do, that the JBL's don't go low enough, that we can't get 120+ db output at 25 hz, blah blah blah. I don't think the comments here about these units lie. Sure, you may get lower hz out of some units, and we may need to play with the JBL's to optimize them for our use (what sub don't you need to do this with anyway) - but the bang for the buck here cannot be overstated. They aren't for everybody - but for those with certain needs, are a great cost effective way to get some real low end. More as I know it....this will be quite the experiment. ------------------ First we Rock, then we Roll! A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 dnd, yea let me know. i am still considering one for use in the lounge w/ the rf-3 & using the old ken receiver as amp. but then i'll need an external crossover. who knows could even be ok w/ the marantz 80hz. i'm tapped out in the main room though. sorry if i offended. just get this way on the subwoofer spl wars. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Boa - I don't think you have offended anyone here - certainly not me. Some think that this method is a bit unorthodox, and sometimes not going with the flow brings lots of questions. That's fine with me. Those who are maverick enough on this forum to give this a try allows us one more option to build our masterpieces. We won't know if we don't try - and the feedback on this forum from those first "mavericks" suggests to me that this is worthwhile. I think it is safe to say that this would not be happening if it were not for the deep JBL discounts. To purchase 2 cabinets plus amplification/EQ at list would be $3000 - the cabinets list for $1100 each, and I have two. I'm doing the 2 cabinets, amp, and EQ for $800 total - much less than the otherwise preferable SVS and Velodyne units would cost. Now this becomes a viable option for my system - a great opportunity to upgrade my woofage dirt cheap ($300 total upgrade cost, after selling the Velo). If dollars were not an issue, I would persue other alternatives - but then again, an unlimited budget would make this too easy! Part of the challenge for me is to extract the maximum performance out of every dollar - and this latest addition seems to fit that criteria quite well in my application. Frankly, I find the interest of other forum members on this topic to be quite welcome. I read the 2 channel forum to see what's up over there - and while they do things differently than I would (for the most part), that doesn't make their approach any less valid. After all, we each listen to our own gear, share our experiences, and hopefully learn something. I feel like part of a laboratory experiment! ------------------ First we Rock, then we Roll! A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 yea i hear ye dnd. i hear tom too. those subs w/ higher excursion do have that trade-off w/ higher distortion & lower quality. the hgs use the servo & accelometer to keep it clean, but doing so clamps down on the spl you'd expect from such a big cone, magnet & 3000W peak amp. i can tell by not even hearing one that the 4638/48 would pack a punch & be tight/clean at the same time. i kinda like the looks of their 4645C. 8 ohms, rated by jbl @ 22hz. recommended cross at 80hz or a lil higher. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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