Guest David H Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Here's a direct comparison of intermodulation distortion between the B&C DCM50 and the Faital Pro HF200 drivers. The B&C wins by a nose! But the extended frequency response of the HF200 makes it a clear choice!Absolutely fantastic, I was hopeful this would be a good driver for this application.Before ordereing this driver, I spoke with Al at US Speakers several times, and this was of his highest reccomendations. He also informed me that the Faital Pro drivers are machine built consistent performers. Link to about Faital Pro http://www.faitalpro.com/aboutus/rand.php I checked with Bob Crites yesterday about this driver, and he is going to find out if Faital Pro is in his network of suppliers. Dave Harris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 I think I'm throwing cold water on the fire, but look at a comparison with the K55 driver on a 1-inch horn. The HF200 wins but It's close. The K55 won't go to 20 KHz though! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 The K-55 is an amazing driver. I often receive email from customers looking for a better 1 inch driver for their KHorns. To my knowlege ther isn't a better 1 inch driver for that application, and on top of that the K-55 sounds great. A bit of praise for the long time reigning LF capable1 inch champ, the "K-55" I dont know what gave PWK the idea to use an outdoor PA driver for a mid, but I am pleased he did. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Obviously the TADs are pricey..........I was just wondering about the distortion performance at these lower frequencies. They are rated for 600 but I know there are guys using them down to 300. They sounded great at 500 with the ESNs Al designed me...........but I don't know what the distortion was. These are very nice tests Al is performing. Very useful data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 The K-55 is an amazing driver. I often receive email from customers looking for a better 1 inch driver for their KHorns. To my knowlege ther isn't a better 1 inch driver for that application, and on top of that the K-55 sounds great. A bit of praise for the long time reigning LF capable1 inch champ, the "K-55" I dont know what gave PWK the idea to use an outdoor PA driver for a mid, but I am pleased he did. Dave. Can't wait to see the developments fo the Fatial Pro testing. Not sure if you have seen this but here is a pic of the WE555 testing PWK did on a K400. Hunter says this was the inspiration for the K55. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 The Faital website says the minimum crossover Frequency for the HF-200 is 900Hz with a 12 db/octave filer. Beats its specs by quite a bit I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 It also says the HF-200 driver is 8 ohms and the pic Al shows clearly says 16 ohms. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Mark, I think the HF200 is available in 8 or 16 Ohms. I have never seen a test on the TAD low frequency performance but I wold bet it's good! They have an excellent reputation. The big price tag is what stops most of us. I just realized there will soon be a Faital Pro 204 that costs even less then the 200. It's not released yet. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6l6gc Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Hi Guys, > Sorry if my timing is a bit wrong, been following for a while, but I have this question that keeps on bugging me, > As a possible horn loaded replacement for the K55, that would cross lower on a khorn, would these do any better distortion wise in a 3 way? very high BL, relatively low mass, and low inductance. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-832 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-838 > Some crude measurements that I did on my bass bins, showed the Khorn bass THD start to rise up from about 300hz and up, and it would be nice to cross it lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 616gc, Those two drivers are direct radiators. I will bet they have higher distortion than the Khorn woofer. Mixing direct radiators and horns is not wise. Bad enough that a direct radiator woofer is usually employed. I don't think there is much need to crossover lower. You just need a bigger mid-range horn and crossover with larger parts and more loss. I found that a woofer that goes higher , like the Belle or LaScala, gives you a much better choice of top end. All you loose is some deep bass. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6l6gc Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Thanks for the reply, I thought those could be horn loaded, RCF mentions these can be used like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 616gc, I think I misunderstood! The Bruce Edgar type horn, as he described it in his original article, used drivers like that with about a 4 inch throat. He found that choosing the best one was a major trial and error job. That kind of arrangement would be a possibility. I don't know what would be the overall benefit though. I suppose there's a world of possibilities! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6l6gc Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Al K. Thanks, I was toying the idea, I thought it could be possible to get an even lower distortion than the stock khorn at the 250-1500 region, and then cut over to a compression driver from about 1500, to my ears the khorn isnt quit right from 300 and up, not only from a distortion point but the sound is too ambient and reflective at around 300-500. 6l6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 616gc, The frequency reigon you are talking about is noted for a peak in the response. This might be what you are hearing. The AK4 and later networks have a simple equalizer in them to attenuate that reigon a bit. Most people like that peak even thoug it's not technically correct. The way to fix it is an external active equalizer, Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6l6gc Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Al K Your right about the peak, I had AA network, but now I'm using a 3 way time aligned active, and have done a lot of experimentation this past year, one example: EQ the basshorn flat and crossing at 500 in a 2 way configuration, it measured flat, but the dispersion in the room sounded all wrong, One of the best sounding experiments at very low volumes was a 3 way k55\401 at 300-770hz (48db slope) and Selenium D220 from 770. I also swapped in a direct radiator I had around to cover that small gap, but distortion stood out. Finally I have settled down on k55\401@ 450hz and D220 from 1.5K at 18db slopes and tuned according to the Le-Cleache excel sheet. +EQing for a more technically correct response on both ends. > 6l6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 616gc, There is one other thing you really need to try. Replace the K400 horn! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6l6gc Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Al K. I did try the k55\Altec 511b +k77 route, but they dont load that well at 400Hz as as the k401 do, They are fantastic with the Selenium D220, measured very well @1khz, so using k400 mid + 511b high for many monthes now, Im getting some smaller horns to see the behaviour difference on the high end, For me The k55\K401 isn't harsh if used only up to 1+K. Despite being plastic, I thought it used to sound like a resonant pipe\bell somewhere in the 350-500 region, but since gone active I dont get that at all any more, so I think I changed my mind about the k400, its nice between 400-1k'ish.. 6l6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Al...are you going to get formal polar plots with this driver? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Jc, Yes. I packed up the driver on Dave's K2 Edgar type horn and shipped them to Lee Clinton this morning. Doing polar plots on that horn will answer the question about the curved side obscuring the driver up high like it seemed to do with the coaxial DCX50. He still has the Eliptrac prototype horn there too. Al K. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Al...are you going to get formal polar plots with this driver? jc JC, the driver is off to get the Lee to get the polars done.I have more good news, I received an email this morning that Bob Crites is an authorised retailer for the Faital Pro drivers. Yeah[<)] Dave Harris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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