a question about Klipschorn placement in my room

[Ducatista]

Hello:

Our Klipschorns are on order from Klipsch and will arrive in a month or so.

The listening room is 21.5 ft. along the long wall and 14.7 ft along the shorter wall. Ceiling height is 11 ft. The room is carpeted.

Khorns will be along the long wall. I am concerned that the wall might be a little long for an ideal center stereo image.

Also, (see attached photo), note that there are windows about 30 inches from the vertex of each corner. I am not sure how much of a problem the windows will be.

The template on the floor represents the footprint of the Khorns.

One option is to build a pair of false corners, perhaps also with a hard surface (as opposed to carpet) on which to place the Khorns. This would permit me to position the speakers at a more optimal 18-20 ft (or slightly less) separation.

What is the considered opinion of this sage group?

Build the false walls? Install speakers in room corners as they are and see how it works?

Thanks in advance.

[LarryC]

I also have a nearby window. I think you'll have to place them and see what limits you run up against. For example, the clearance between the window edge and the K depends on how far the edge stands out from the wall. It might be tight, but might fit. A false corner would probably be pushed out into the room a little by those edges whereas the K's might fit. It will look a little crowded, but you'll just have to see. In pictures, I don't care for the appearance of false corners in a nice room.

The other issue may be the baseboard, which looks rather high. K-horns formerly had baseboard cutouts in the tailboard, but I don't know about the newer ones. I'm glad you don't have pipes coming out of the floornear the corner like some people do!

You'll probably get opinions that your long wall spaces them too far apart, and I would agree. A setup in Indy with a pair of K's in the corners and a Belle in the center sounded great to everyone. I wonder if Klipsch could be persuaded to do a rosewood LaScala, if it's not too big? The Belles were ideal for this, as they had less depth, but you'd have to persuade Klipsch to do a rosewood Belle and perhaps redesign the top.

Good luck!

[Groomlakearea51]

Should work ok. Assuming that whatever is in the windows is temporary. Drapes, etc could certainly be a problem. A good solution for the windows would be vertical blinds with the vanes opening outward slightly away from the K'horns on either side, respectively. The carpet should not be a problem. One room I have is 16.5 x 12 giving roughly the same ratio. K'horns in that room work very well.

[Ducatista]

Thanks for the advice. We will keep the same window treatments as in the photo (Roman shades). The window molding protrudes about an inch off the wall. According the the template provided by Klipsch, the base molding should just fit.

A major concern is having a solid center image with the 21.5 ft. wall. I would prefer not to employ a center speaker (might be hard to get Klipsch to make something appropriate in rosewood) and I would need an amplifier for the center speaker. I will give this some thought.

Maybe I should try the Khorns in the corners and see how they do as a first step.

Thanks.

[LarryC]

Good plan. I have a hanging sheer at each side of my window, which effectively obscures that the K's are pushed right up to the window edge. It wouldn't be as comfy to look at without the sheers.

Some like Roger Chase in Indy (IndyKlipschFan) have a Cornwall in the center, actually inside a center cabinet and it works nicely.

I think you're right about the add'l amp, though.

[DizRotus]

Thanks for the advice. We will keep the same window treatments as in the photo (Roman shades).

Good move keeping the Roman shades. Vertical blinds are the perfect product if you want to recreate the classy ambience of the DMV or a Dollar Store.

I doubt you'd be able to notice a difference between the Roman shades and plasic vertical blinds. I'd try them well sealed into the corners along the long wall before trying a center channel or false corners. It would be interesting to see if there's a difference between when the shades are up or down.

[artarama]

Definately try them in the corners first as is. What do you have to lose?

I would say the 21.5' spacing is right at the limit of needing a center. It may or may not be neccesary depending on your gear and room. That doesn't help but tells you where to start. I have used a Cornwall and a LaScala as center for a 19.5' spacing and they both would push the image farther out into the room more than affect the centering of the image. In my case at 19.5' the image quality is far more affected by my electronics than the use of a center speaker.

[Chris A]

The listening room is 21.5 ft. along the long wall and 14.7 ft along the shorter wall. Ceiling height is 11 ft. The room is carpeted.

Khorns will be along the long wall. I am concerned that the wall might be a little long for an ideal center stereo image.

So am I - but you can get a center channel later if you have a "hole in the center"--I'd recommend a La Scala or a Belle - used would be fine. In the mean time, you could try the Khorns along the short wall if you have a really big stereo image hole.

I am not sure how much of a problem the windows will be.

I don't believe the windows will be a problem.

One option is to build a pair of false corners, perhaps also with a hard surface (as opposed to carpet) on which to place the Khorns.

The false corners will also allow you to rotate the Khorns so that they aim at your listening position(s), and reduce the separation of the two Khorns so that you don't require a center channel (as you have observed above).They will also allow you to pull the Khorns a little bit forward of any center racks and electronics (much better center imaging when you do this). I would first try the Khorns without false corners, then with. I think you'll like them "with".

I don't think that you need a "hard surface" on the floor with the false corners since the carpet is almost invisible to the frequencies that you are trying to reinforce via corner loading.

Chris

[LarryC]

Is the short wall possible? Mine are along the very short wall of my living room, only 11', not very good for mid-room image. I do feel that the sound fills out the room, however, and your room isn't as elongated as my 18' X 11'.

[gnatnoop]

the baseboards are not an issue.

looks like you have plenty of room for the khorns to seal to the wall, the windows may affect bass response but this would be slight.

the dealer where i bought my pair had them further apart than what you are planning and they worked extremely well. since you can sit back 12 to 14 feet, you'll be fine.

the windows are the only thing that concerns me....i'd put them there and enjoy, tweak later.

good luck, you're going to have FUN with these! [Y]

[Ducatista]

Thank you for all the excellent suggestions. Really uncertain.

The amplification is a VAC Sigma160i.

I am leaning toward trying them in the existing corners and then if not completely satisfied ... building the false walls. I suspect the system will imagine a good bit better with the speakers more like 18 ft apart.

Thanks again.

[greg928gts]

It would be better if the windows weren't so close to the corners, but I think you should certainly try them as is.

The interior dimensions of my listening room are 21' x 16' x 9' (beamed ceiling) with the Khorns on the long wall. I get excellent center imaging now, which was not always the case. Among the things I credit for bringing about the imaging I now enjoy, are "stupid cone feet" as I call them, placed under my DAC and Transport.

I even have a TV stand and two component racks in between the Khorns and still get the good imaging. The TV stand has a curtain that covers the bottom part of it where I used to have a center channel speaker. When I demo my system for someone, I like to put a song on and then leave the room for the listener to enjoy. More than once I watch through the glass doors as the listener gets up and goes to look behind the curtain under the TV stand to see if there's a speaker under there!

Seating position, making sure everything is perfectly in phase, and isolating the DAC were the most important things for me to improve imaging with my system.

I hope you post pictures of your Khorns when you get them set up.

Greg

[KanedaK]

I have a table in the middle between my LaScalas, with on top my electronics and my Mac G5 computer.

I don't really have another choice at the moment but I often feel that my Scalas would image even better if there was nothing standing just in the middle... I'd be interested to know if there's an actual theory / explanation behind it, or if it's just a psycho-acoustic phenomenon?

[Chris A]

I'd be interested to know if there's an actual theory / explanation behind it, or if it's just a psycho-acoustic phenomenon?

The theory is related to the precedence effect and avoiding early reflections (less than 20-40 ms or so from the speakers to your ears). It is a psychoacoustic phenomenon that is also repeatable experimentally.

Chris

[psg]

My Klipschorns are spaced on a 19'8'' wall and imaging is outstanding; the speakers disappear completely and lead vocals come from dead center and I can point to each instrument. Strings are plucked in front of me. Even drums image. I can't imagine that an extra 10 inches would make a huge difference.