Vertical Horns For Better Sound Stage?

[DizRotus]

It has been suggested that the vertical orientation of the tweeter and squawker horns in some CW's produce a better soundstage. Has anyone tried modifying other Klipsch speakers with vertical horns?

EV used vertical orientation of the horns in their speakers. It appears that the horizontal orientation used by Klipsch was a compromise to make the design more compact, to reduce material costs and to facilitate construction.

As my wife could attest, there are very few things in our home that have not been modified--I say improved, she says modified. I'm a tinkerer. For proof, got to http://members.aol.com/ROTUSROTUS/Specs.html to see a car that I built. I'm not afraid to break eggs to make an omelet.

The 4 Speakerlab SK-horns I used in '76 in a mobile DJ business had the T-35's in a vertical orientation next to the metal squawker horns. I would occasionally put 2 of the 4 SK's on their sides so that the floor and the wall became the "corner." The bass remained good.

That makes me wonder what would happen if the K-horn bass units were placed in the wall corners but on their sides so that the wall becomes the floor. The squawker and tweeter horns could then be placed vertically, with the tweeter on top. They could be moved away from the corner while being kept near the bass unit. The potential benefits could include: better imaging, felixibility of placement (no longer restricted to firing at 45 degrees) and less visual domination of the room. The recumbent bass units and the narrow profile of the vertically oriented horns, might stop people from asking why the wooden refrigerators are in the corners of the room.

Due to the crossover point from the bass to the squawker used by Klipsch, the mid/high horns could not be removed too far from the bass, but there would be more flexibility of placement.

If the benefits of vertical horns are genuine, they could be also applied to Heresy and La Scala as well. The modifications could be done in ways that would not prevent returning the speakers to their original configurations. Unlike eggs, the Klipsch drivers could be safely returned to their shells.

Now the dangerous part begins. As I'm typing, the thought occurs to me that a larger bass horn could be designed to utilize more of the wall or the floor. The bass units could be designed and constructed to extend from floor to ceiling or to extend for more than ten feet, if placed along the floor with the "bottom" placed in the corner of the room.

The modifications I suggest are more practical than the concrete bass horn buried in the audiophile's yard that teriminated with the mouth being the entire end wall of the listening room. A simple experiment could be performed by someone with access to 4 Heresys. With one pair on their sides on top of the other pair, the woofers could be disconnected from the upper speakers and only the woofers would be connected to the lower pair.

What do you think?

Neil a/k/a DizRotus

[ShapeShifter]

Can't comment on the vertical horn mods...but do like the roadster! Willing to trade vertical Cornwalls +...

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"KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f>

This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 04-26-2002 at 06:02 PM

[HDBRbuilder]

The age old problem with speaker cabinet design is getting each separate driver/horn to fire as close as possible from the same point of origin...along the same axis.

As for the difference in what one hears from a cornwall with vertical horns in it laying on its side(which makes those horns become horizontal, by the way) vs. the cornwall with horizontal horns standing up...well, the design of the cabinet entails it be a baffle chamber, which, in order to achieve the desired results, places the woofer much farther from the midrange horn and tweeter horn...ie., farther off axis point of origin.

In the horizontal horn cornwall, when the listener is in a sitting position, the top end is firing from a high point along a center axis even with the top of the listener's head or a bit higher, and the woofer is aimed much lower.

In the vertical horn cornwall, when it is laid on its side(as intended), the horns become horizontal, giving the same horizontal dispersion as the other type, BUT, all the drivers are much closer on a vertical plane to the same axis point of origin, even though they are not so on the horizontal plane, thus...a different effect, since the tweeter and midrange aren't firing from a point at the top of the listener's head or higher...but instead are firing at the seated listener's center of mass...that is why in this model the horns are toward one corner and that corner is intended to be at the top in the laid-down configuration.

Also, if one were to take that same vertical horned cornwall, and lay it on its OTHER side, where the horns were more toward the floor, it would present a different sound-staging effect, because the lenses of the horns would be firing lower down toward the listeners feet.

If a pair of vertical-horned cornwalls had their drivers mounted in a mirror-image of each other, laying on their sides with the horns toward the top inside corner, but the woofers toward the outside walls in a corner, it would provide a nice balanced effect, but...these were not manufactured at a time when stereo was in its prime and therefore not made in matching mirror-imaged motorboard pairs.

Did I explain that well enough to understand?(my downfall is trying to explain in writing what is alot easier to show in person)

As for doing all that modification to a K-horn...All that effort is just too much for me...instead, why not just build yourself half a MWM?(split horizontally)...not that difficult to build...and put the K-horn on top of it?...just a thought

This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-26-2002 at 11:22 PM

[edster00]

Okay, I'll admit I am up past my bedtime...what is a MWM again ?

[HDBRbuilder]

Edster,

MWM=woofer section of MCM Grand. Is pushed by two 15" woofers, one mounted over the other...can be made in two sections that stack, instead of as pictured under theater systems on home page. If one of the split MWM's is put under each K-horn, it would be interesting what the result would be. Granted it would take up a bit of corner floorspace, but for those who have the room....

[TBrennan]

Diz---You can't really compare EV mid horns (you mean the 8-HD I presume) and the Klipsch K-600 used in the Cornwall or K-400 used in the KHorn. They disperse sound on different principles. The 8-HD was designed for widest dispersion with the horn vertical and the K-600&400 were designed for widest dispersion with the horn horizontal. So what works best for the EV isn't neccesarily what works best for the Klipsch. To place the mid horns of KHorns vertically would give more vertical than horizontal dispersion, this is not generally credited as a good thing, indeed their horizontal dispersion is narrow enough when used as intended.

[Manuel Delaflor]

I have a set of Heresy's on their sides, and for me they sound just amazing like that. Im not sure if this is because this way all the driver are at my ears level, or because the Horns dispersion is a lot less than in an horizontal position.

Some day I will make extensive tests... some day.

[NOSValves]

Manuel

You say your Heresy's are on there side and at your ear level. So either you lay on the floor and listen or you have them on some type of stand or shelf. Fill me in here !!

Craig

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HH Scott 299 Amp

HH Scott LT-110B Tuner

HH Scott P-87 Turn Table

Grado cartridge

Sony CDP315 CD Drive

1985 Walnut Heresey I

KSW-15 Subs>c>

[Manuel Delaflor]

I use an older (unused) set of speakers as stands! They are 23 inch high.