Blvdre Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Good advice Eric, re:AL networks. Another example would be Al K's extreme slope x-overs. If you like to listen loud, they sound very well behaved, but are not appropriate for SE tube amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Blvdr: I have heard that before about Al's Extreme Slope networks, which as you know is not a reflection of the quality of ALK's design but a case where 'more' (in terms of many inductors and capacitors -- all of which are of great quality) doesn't subsequently mean 'more' in terms of necessarily improved performance. Totally agree with you. The AL was honestly not just good, but really quite good with the big SS amp I mentioned, yet sounded honestly sort of broken with our sub 2-watt amplifier. An organ amp I rebuilt, push-pull and in the 20 watt range, was another story. It sounded significantly better with the AL than the SET amp. Interestingly, using the more powerful amplifiers with the far simpler type 'A' was also an equally inappropriate network for high wattage; the response seemed very peaky, shouty, and just sort of overly charged in a way that was not natural (to me) I guess it's a case of balancing and compromising in order to find what works best with what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66hr Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 9 watt Single ended here and after trying 4 different networks, the ES networks are here to stay. I have both the ES4000 and ES5800. I've settled on the ES5800 with the Fastlane mid horn. It's all about personal choice, unfortunately the ES networks aren't cheap, but I'm very pleased I took the punt. The best advice is try a few networks, we're all different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 66hr -- Great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 66hr Would you share some details about your 300b amp? I have been surprised at just how strong the 300b can be, even with speakers in the 87dB/watt/meter range. I built a pair of monoblocks lasr year based on a direct-coupled 6SN7 into the 300b that are outstanding. It's possible to see how they would be satisfactory with the ES networks in K-horns. Had you ever used these amps with the type A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I think this is why Speakerfritz likes the AL networks. He uses them in p.a. systems. Obviously a bit more power than our SETs. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I should have tried the AL with my 300b amps. Actually, I may have soon after I got these la scalas, but had to address some issues that surfaced with the speakers soon after I got them home. No fault anywhere, could have been during the time they were moved. 300b triodes can sound pretty powerful, and certainly capable of more than 1.5 watts trying to hack their way though all those inductors and caps. To simply write it off as 'bad' or 'terrible' leaves something to be desired, IMO, and specifically in terms of equipment in front of it. It's a dance of compromises, as someone once observed, though I can't even begin to remember who that someone was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blvdre Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 9 watt Single ended here and after trying 4 different networks, the ES networks are here to stay. I have both the ES4000 and ES5800. I've settled on the ES5800 with the Fastlane mid horn. It's all about personal choice, unfortunately the ES networks aren't cheap, but I'm very pleased I took the punt. The best advice is try a few networks, we're all different. Well there you go. Often times, general guidelines do not apply. Good to know the ES networks worked in your application, 66hr. Just don't mention that your using a SE amp to Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I use the Type A, somewhat modified, with our La Scalas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Dependent upon the your normal listening volume...... Loud... ALK's Normal.... A/4500's, but... you should use the CT-125 to take advantage of the CT's low end response. I use 4500's in my LS's (current and previous). [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 In addition to the above I would suggest trying different networks, in addition to different crossover points, and base decisions upon your very individual preferences. There is no 'ultimate' in any of this. Where there are options, there are slots for personal tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Dependent upon the your normal listening volume...... Loud... ALK's Normal.... A/4500's, but... you should use the CT-125 to take advantage of the CT's low end response. I use 4500's in my LS's (current and previous). What do you think was considered a normal listening level 20 years ago? I would guess not nearly as loud as we listen now. Except at frat parties when everyone was drunk.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BE36 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Good advice Eric, re:AL networks. Another example would be Al K's extreme slope x-overs. If you like to listen loud, they sound very well behaved, but are not appropriate for SE tube amps. But extremes do sound good to me with VRDs in Utralinear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Has anyone else realized that the thread started has not posted since the starter? Craig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 BE36: I am greatly interested in what you think of your Fastrac horns compared to the k400. Would you mind if I asked you to characterize some of the differences you found -- not in the sense of 'better' or 'worse' (which can be ambguous) but rather the nature of the sound produced by one compared to the other. I would appreciate it! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 what you think of your Fastrac horns compared to the k400. The difference is night and day, the Fastrac doesn't shout, no coloration or ringing. The Fastrac has better detail and extension, and is an improvement with any network I have tried. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks. By better detail do you mean MORE, as in sharper outlines and greater clarity? A more precise kind of presentation, maybe? Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks. By better detail do you mean MORE, as in sharper outlines and greater clarity? A more precise kind of presentation, maybe? Erik Greater clarity yes. Sharper outlines? Not sure what that means. Large soundstage, Yes Precise presentation, Yes True to the music, Yes IMO the Fastrac is a vast improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Descriptions of music reproduction are often vague, I agree. By 'sharper outlines' I mean the manner in which instruments are presented in space -- either more clearly or diffused. What does "true to the music mean"? A system's fidelity to a recording is hard to measure unless one happened to be present in the studio when it was taking place (IMO) Kind of an of an offshoot of that (which we aren't discussing here) is when some say their systems reveal the artist's intent. Thanks for responding, I do appreciate it. Sometimes things like this just require a leap of faith. I've never had any trouble...ringing or shouting, etc. Of the original horn, but am curious about the Fastrac. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Erik, I've felt rather satisfied with my LS as well. I'mYYof curious as to what volume you are normally listening. I know that will depend a little on the specific music, i.e., Nora Jones would not be played as loud as the Eagles. Everyone who has mentioned a tractrix flare mid horn for the LS says they sound better for all listening levels, more natural, blah, blah... I hardly ever have anything over 95db, and that would be pushing it for me. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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