matt giddy fruit Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Ok I'm getting the local Deck Doctor to have a look at the set up and make sure that the cartrdige has been fitten correctly. He seems to think from his reaerch on Audiogon that the 2M is a "bad match" anyway with an OL tonearm due to the resonant frequency of 7.32HZ being "substantially below the magical 10HZ bogey number." This is not, I presume, the reason for the rough sound, but it makes me even less enthusiastic about it... Also apparently - and this does make sense looking at the set up - the fact that the cart is so big/ high vertically makes it problematic with the OL Silver as there isn't a VTA adjustment on this arm - you have to put washers in or something to bring the arm level up high enough! Really getting my teeth into this issue now! I'm seriously thinking of returning the 2M to the shop and getting a replacement. If I was to go for the Denon DL103R - my original choice - what extra equipment would I need to buy? Given that my BBX does not have the "cream" MC option, do I need to get a phono preamp with moving coil AND a step up? What would be a good suggested set up with the Denon DL103R? Don't want to mess up again.... Cheers Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Dont know enough to comment on the resonant frequency. I know that the origin is a higher mass arm and therefore a lower complaint cart would work best. The ortofon is in the high medium range of compliance so he might be right. You do not need a new phono stage. You need a step up transformer. Here are afew. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preaphon&1319335196&/Denon-AU-320-Step-Up-Transform http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preaphon&1319118856&/Ortofon-T20-step-up-transforme http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preaphon&1318749072&/Jensen-jt-44k-dx-mc-step-up-tr I cannot comment on any of these in regards to price or performance. I do know that the K&K audio sells kits that use the lundahl transformers and they are very very nice performers. I had one of their kits that Gary is now using. Theycan be found here http://www.kandkaudio.com/phonostage.html Finally if you look at the origin live website they have some recommended cartriges at virtually every price point. not might be a bad place to start! Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Pity about the lack of VTA adjustment with the Origin Live arm. I find the VTA adjustment on the stock Technics arm to be really helpful in dialing in the sound, as well as making it easy to adjust for different mat thicknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydfp Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 +1 for the Grado. I have a Grado Sonata on my SL1200 and it sounds wonderful with the Khorns, no hum at all. It was recommended by Kevin at KAB who also said he runs horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt giddy fruit Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Right the 2M Black is going back to the shop, so let's try that again... I think I might have a good set up in mind now, but won't be rushing into anything without the sign off from you guys...[] What I'm thinking is this: Technics 1200 with Origin Live Tonearm and Denon DL103R >> CineMag 3440A SUT* >> Blueberry Extreme preamp (without moving coil option) >> VRD Monoblocks >> K Horns *http://capnbob.fatcow.com/store/page4.html Questions: 1. Are the Cinemag SUT 3440A and the Denon 103R a good match? Reviews seem to suggest so. 2. Is the Denon 103R definitely a good match for the OL Silver tonearm? Judging by Josh's comment that it's "the perfect match in regards to compliance" is sounds like it is. Would the lack of VTA on the Silver tonearm be an issue with this cart? It was a major issue with the 2M Black as the tonearm ended up pretty much going uphill as the cart was so big! 3. Would the Cinemag SUT be sufficient fed through the BBX - ie does it not matter that there is no moving coil option on the BBX if I use the step up? Again I think that Josh answered this already but just double checking before I order it. Actually feeling pretty excited about putting this set up up together if it's a goer. The thrill of the chase n all that! Thanks for sticking with me on this one guys. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Also apparently - and this does make sense looking at the set up - the fact that the cart is so big/ high vertically makes it problematic with the OL Silver as there isn't a VTA adjustment on this arm - you have to put washers in or something to bring the arm level up high enough! Cartridge alignment is critical to it sounding good and minimizing clicks and pops. The cart can't be pointing randomly up or down relative to the record surface (as seen from the side), and the stylus' cantilever must absolutely be parallel to the groove at the point it rests in the groove (as seen from directly above). Misalignment produces a nasty sound, and correcting it can make a dramatic difference.See http://www.audiophilia.com/features/cartridge_setup.htm, http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttadjust.html#AZIMUTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I made a SUT for the 103 and BBX out of a pair of Altec 4722 transformers. It was so easy even I could do it (instructions available online). The 4722s available on eBay for, maybe $300 per pair. I don't know if Mark can still upgrade the Blueberries, but you might give him a jingly-holler. Funny, that's where my family is from: Jingly Holler, TN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I don't know anything about the sut that you referenced. But looking at the web site it looks to be a mice match for the denon. Fwiw the guy At k and k will build okne of his step up kits to match the Denon as well. K and k has a very good reputation they have a forum section on audio asylum if Uluru retards in checking it out. I personally think that Vta to the extreme is a bunch of hoohey there are records that are 200 grams and others that are 180 grams and others that are way thinner. So something that. Is reasonably close is probably going to be ok. That being said the Denon is way thinner top to bottom than modern carts. This can be compensated with spacers or a tt mat I happen to have a spacer designed for the Denon as well as a technics matt. I will send you both if you give me your address. - no charge. Let me know if you're interested and I'll start looking. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Funny, that's where my family is from: Jingly Holler, TN Funny, that's from where my Gramps (we don't dicuss him much...) Jethro T. Sumbuck hails from.... [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt giddy fruit Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 I don't know anything about the sut that you referenced. But looking at the web site it looks to be a mice match for the denon. Fwiw the guy At k and k will build okne of his step up kits to match the Denon as well. K and k has a very good reputation they have a forum section on audio asylum if Uluru retards in checking it out. I personally think that Vta to the extreme is a bunch of hoohey there are records that are 200 grams and others that are 180 grams and others that are way thinner. So something that. Is reasonably close is probably going to be ok. That being said the Denon is way thinner top to bottom than modern carts. This can be compensated with spacers or a tt mat I happen to have a spacer designed for the Denon as well as a technics matt. I will send you both if you give me your address. - no charge. Let me know if you're interested and I'll start looking. Josh Thanks Josh and everyone else. Phase 2 is now well underway. I took the 2M back and got the Denon dl103R. Had a funny experience in the shop. There was a different guy in there - highly opinionated. He told me the Denon was a 'horrible cartridge', that it was 'all fries without the steak" "the ugly ginger haired kid you keep in the basement when guests come round' He suggested that I should get the Lyra Delos instead. A much more expensive cart obviously but I don't think his advice was financially motivated - he genuinely seemed to think you can't get a good MC cartridge for the price of the Denon....I bought the Denon anyway, just too curious not to hear it after all this - and told I might see him down the track for the Lyra... I also ordered the Cinemag 3440A SUT, Bren1 Gila IC interconnects and the Origin Live VTA adjuster (so I won't be needing the spacer ot TT but thanks for the very kind offer anyway Josh). Let's see how that litle lot goes. Made me laugh just now to see that Zu audio do an ugrade version of the 103R! So I'm already planning the next upgrade before this lot has even arrived. Don't you just love hi fi! Cheers Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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